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#1 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 04:56 PM

apple pays ~ $14 million a day (yes, a day) in taxes to uncle sam. - so?
apple has $1.4 billion (with a bee) off-shore not being consumed by taxes. - so?

most companies do keep their money out of the united states - it can be invested and grow to the company's good, which means they can keep at least some americans employed.

i watched the company i worked for be taxed to death here in new orleans, so much so that they built a plant in mexico simply to keep the company afloat.

anyway, what's wrong with apple's strategy? like you, they simply want to live.
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#2 OFFLINE   ross549

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 04:58 AM

Tim Cook said it.... the tax code needs to be overhauled.

I take all the deductions available to me... am I going to pay a dime more than I am required to? Of course not!

Personally, I think corporate taxes need to be eliminated entirely. We are paying those taxes indirectly through higher prices anyway. IMagine the flood of companies that would come to the US if this happened.....

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#3 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 05:18 AM

hear! hear!
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#4 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:23 AM

<today's rant>

OK, here we go...

Firstly, the U.S. tax code was designed, written, instituted, and is currently maintained for one purpose and one purpose only... to further enrich and shelter the private Rich and their golden geese:  BIG Corp, BIG Pharma, BIG Mili/Industrial Complex, BIG Government, BIG etc.

Secondly, as long as those people are the true "Masters of the Universe", so to speak, the U.S. tax code will NEVER change to something that is favorable toward the poor and middle classes. This would be detrimental to the prime directive of the private Rich.

Thirdly, if the unwashed masses begin to squeal and rant too vociferously, the Masters will smack them down using whatever means at hand... and the Masters have ALL the means necessary.

Fourthly, nothing will ever change as long as Average Joe and Jane continue to concern themselves with ONLY their little worlds of texting, bar-hopping, reality TV watching, and other assorted trivial distractions that make them lose sight of the ball as it comes over home plate.

Lastly, you'd be hard pressed to find three people to agree on the shade of blue the sky is wearing today, so you can forget about anything ever being different on this earth. The "Golden Rule" will always be THE RULE. Lest you forget...  Those who have the gold make the rules.

</rant>

Disclaimer: In light of possibly storm trooper onslaught or drone attacks on my "compound", I'm alerting everyone who reads this that my intention may (or may not) have been purely entertainment oriented when posting the above. All comments by this poster may (or may not) be just silly verbiage meant to illicit a laugh or two from the readers here. The author probably does not (or does) really believe the above comments. If put under oath to testify as to his/her beliefs, the author may refuse to answer on the grounds that he/she is averse to the thought of having to move to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba for any extended period of time.

;) <-- winkie guy emoticon signifying a joking or tongue-in-cheek posting by someone with no balls.
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#5 OFFLINE   LilBambi

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:47 AM

How about a flat tax of 10% across the boards and get rid of Riders on Bills, and disallow all corporate lobbying entirely.

Or do away with taxes all together and put all members of congress back on the good graces of their respective States.

There is no way to do this, as no one would agree to go back to the sanity of before taxes were instituted sadly.

Edited by LilBambi, 30 May 2013 - 10:52 AM.

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#6 OFFLINE   ross549

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 05:30 PM

My intent was not to raise a rant about how tax policy is formed but to look at this from a business perspective. Taxes paid by corporations are inevitably passed to the consumer. Why bother taxing the companies? It masks the true amount of taxes we the people pay in the end.

Second, tax law being what it is remains extraordinarily complex. This has forced the same corporations to waste a considerable amount of resources trying to maintain compliant on taxes while trying to pay as little as possible.

If you eliminate corporate taxes, several things happen. Corporations spend less time and money on tax compliance, lowering costs of compliance. Second, prices would drop across the board (almost 30%!). It would not happen instantaneously, but it will happen as companies compete.  Third, it would reveal the true taxes each citizen pays, forcing the government to answer for it. Fourth, companies start setting up shop in the US since the cost of doing business is lower. We start exporting more goods. Jobs are created. Etc.

Win win win win situation in my book.

:-)

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#7 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 05:49 PM

Do you really think greedy corps will pass along the tax savings to you? They'll just have more money in their coffers to bribe... er, I mean donate to politicians.
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#8 OFFLINE   crp

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:15 PM

View PostV.T. Eric Layton, on 30 May 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

Do you really think greedy corps will pass along the tax savings to you? They'll just have more money in their coffers to bribe... er, I mean donate to politicians.
umm, actually economic history has shown that decreases in tax dollars demanded for prodcuts do tend to lead to the produces reducing the price of said product.
This is an extremely rare issue of me agreeing with Mr Rand - why pick on Apple for following all the loopholes, which they did not create? And Google does this to a far greater extent than Apple.

Interesting to note that Microsoft does not do all that it can do to reduce its taxes. Which is in fact still in keeping with Bill Gates views (he is all for taking tax breaks but not for dong Ruby Goldberg avoidance).
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. ~C. S. Lewis

#9 OFFLINE   ross549

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 08:00 PM

View PostV.T. Eric Layton, on 30 May 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

Do you really think greedy corps will pass along the tax savings to you? They'll just have more money in their coffers to bribe... er, I mean donate to politicians.

To be honest, they won't want to. Who wouldn't want to have a higher profit margin by doing nothing? Consider the PC industry. HP, Dell, Toshiba, Lenovo all have extremely narrow profit margins, and a drop in cost will mean an immediate profit boost. However, one company will flinch eventually, even if they all agree behind closed doors to hold their pricing. It would not last. This is really the benefit of capitalism, since prices are not fixed byt he government or anything silly like that.

I am not entirely surprised to see Apple under the limelight on this latest "issue" uncovered by the press. Apple is doing nothing any different than the other multinational corps.

Apple was also (in my opinion unfairly) targeted for their contract labor practices, while the other manufacturers were virtually ignored. Did you know a factory making goods for Wal-Mart and other retailers in Bangladesh collapsed, killing a thousand workers? I heard almost nothing about it, but folks spent a lot of time yelling about mandatory overtime and some other small scale issues at Foxconn, all the while ignoring the cultural issues driving the workforce at Chinese plants.

It saddens me to hear this because I think a lot of people want Apple to fail. Why is this the case? Apple is a driving force in the market. Look at the ultrabook market. Would it really exist today if Apple had not driven into the area? Would the smartphone market be where it is without Apple? Apple changes things and forces the rest of the market to innovate more simply because they exist. They are the best kind of competition- they push the market to build better products.

Would we have products like this if it were not for Apple pushing the engineering envelope?

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#10 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:30 PM

I think people are just down on Apple this week. Last week it was GM. Next week it'll be Smithfield (for selling control of America's food supply to the Chinese). Whaddya' gonna' do?
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#11 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 04:33 PM

(i had posted this because apple was in the news about its taxes...)

adam, eric, i agree, a lot of folks despise apple simply because they build the best hardware. they are leading-edge in everything (almost) that they do, and even w/o steve jobs, will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
lilbambi, would love to see a flat tax with provisions for ~some~ of the poor.
crp, yes, tax breaks = less expensive products. they have to, because the competition will.
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#12 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 06:40 PM

Better than a flat tax would be a Federal Sale Tax. Eliminate income taxes completely and institute an across the board sales tax on products and services for everyone... rich, poor, corporations, churches, etc. The only exceptions would be unprepared food products, prescription medicines, medical care. Institute Federal tax holidays for certain back-to-school products each August.

With a sales tax, no one can slide in under the radar. Everyone would pay their fair share. The more $$$ you have, the more you spend, the more you pay. No tax shelters for the rich. No I.R.S. needed. Everyone pays... illegal aliens, doctors, lawyers, poor Uncle Joe down the block, the church pastor, the President, tourists, etc. EVERYONE! This would be much more fair and much less prone to manipulation and addon exemptions, as the flat tax would be.

OK, let's solve the world's problems now. We're on a roll! :yes:
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#13 OFFLINE   ross549

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 08:15 PM

You've read about FairTax, eh? :)

I like that plan. It is sensible.

Adam
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#14 OFFLINE   LilBambi

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 02:04 PM

Yes, it is sensible. LIkely why it would never happen. ... sadly.

FairTax would be a better deal AS LONG AS THEY DO AWAY WITH INCOME TAX.
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#15 OFFLINE   ross549

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 07:10 PM

Well, of course it would..... that is the first part of the bill, along witht eh abolishment of the IRS. ;)

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#16 OFFLINE   Frank Woods

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:11 PM

The Income tax was first brought about in 1913 as a temporary tax. Now 100 years later the IRS is abusing it's power, holding parties at our expense and it should be abolished. A flat 10% rate for EVERYONE , no deductions or exemptions, Terminate all IRS employees . On a side note I hear that Balmer is restructuring Microsoft but he does not know where to begin as they removed the start button.

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#17 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:14 PM

:D  lol, frank!
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