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Clutter Learns Linux


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#26 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 01:59 PM

i'm a bit of a computer geek, so learning linux isn't quite the learning curve it would be for some.  but i can honestly do about anything i need to do, including manage windows equipment, from pclinuxos.
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#27 OFFLINE   striker

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 04:00 PM

View PostTemmu, on Mar 15 2007, 06:59 PM, said:

i'm a bit of a computer geek, so learning linux isn't quite the learning curve it would be for some.  but i can honestly do about anything i need to do, including manage windows equipment, from pclinuxos.
Ho, stop Temmu ... except for one little tiny weetsie thingie  :huh: , OCR'ing . That's a major ...... (fill in anything applicable)  in linux. But all other things, well let's say it this way : windows, eh yes, but what is that ? I can't remember, except for those things looking through to the outside world. :wacko:
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#28 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 04:26 PM

My current experience with windows...Posted Image :wacko:

#29 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 06:08 PM

fortunately... i don't do ocr...  but, oo is there for most of my needs, and i can rdp into windows boxes to manage them... and, here i am browsing the web... :wacko:
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#30 OFFLINE   Cluttermagnet

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 07:27 PM

View Posttommyj12, on Mar 15 2007, 12:48 PM, said:

Clutter don't underestimate how easy it may be for you to make the move. As Urmas said, I am betting that in a few months you will be very comfortable using Linux daily for all your needs.
Probably true. Well, I'm running Ubuntu 6.06 right now from a friend's house. He has cable broadband internet. The OS found it efortlessly and without my having to set up anything. OTOH his copy of WinXP is giving me headaches right now because (1.) it is very bloated, and (2.) it won't let me save images of C: to the new 160G HD I just put in for him, using either Bing or PQ Drive Image 5.0. No idea yet why that is- one or the other has always worked for me in the past. If I can't image, he won't let me risk damaging his copy of XP, which desperately needs some weeding out. His Windows Restore folder is suffering from massive bloat. Ugh!I'm liking Linux more and more by the minute. Heh! This live CD session is fast and gets the job done. His XP is soooooo slow and bloated. Ugh!

Edited by Cluttermagnet, 17 March 2007 - 02:03 AM.

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("It takes an entire village to raise a child...")
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In loving memory of Bruno Knaapen of Amsterdam, who shared
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#31 OFFLINE   striker

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 08:10 PM

The answer to the other topic ... have a look there. :wacko:
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#32 OFFLINE   Cluttermagnet

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 10:09 PM

View Poststriker, on Mar 15 2007, 08:10 PM, said:

The answer to the other topic ... have a look there. :wacko:
Thanks, striker-Yes, I'm pursuing this problem in the Windows forum here.
Special Limited Edition Cluttermaster 2007 with direct air cooling system.
"ClutterLabs" --open hardware for open software" .......... Registered Linux User 446867


("It takes an entire village to raise a child...")
"It takes only one bulldozer to raze an entire village..."
"Hey, Fred- isn't that your kid driving that bulldozer?"

In loving memory of Bruno Knaapen of Amsterdam, who shared
his love of Linux, and thereby made the world a better place...

#33 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 15 March 2007 - 11:14 PM

Hey, Clutter...Listen, I was a complete neophyte when I first loaded Linux onto my machine. Heck, about the only think I knew about Linux was the name. I considered myself to be a relatively accomplished Windows person. I had learned it all on my own, starting back in 2000. My only previous experience with Windows was 3.1 for a brief time back in 1993 or so. I reached pretty far down under the hood (as far as you can) with Windows.Then one day, a straw broke the camel's back. My system experienced a catastrophic failure (OS corruption) due to a Windows patch. I had 3 previous failures similar to this since 2002 or so, every one caused by an MS Windows patch install that went bad. I was finished with Windows for good at this point. And I wasn't looking forward to Vista either... heard too much bad about that one.So, my Finnish friend Urmas, with some additional goading by Frank Golden and Sweet Lou, a friend from the Avant Support Forums, talked me into loading Linux on my currently trashed system. Lou was for Debian, but Urmas and Frank were pushing Ubuntu. I started out with Ubuntu, but it steam-rolled from there. Shortly, I had Debian, Fedora, SuSE, and Slackware on my system. Sure! It was scary at first. Debian's installer really freaked me out. Nowadays, I just shrug. About the only thing Linux that scares me now is Gentoo. Be a while before I go there again. ;)Anyway, moral to this long-winded missive is that just eight months ago I knew absolutely nothing about Linux, GNU, Gnome, etc. Yeah, I've made some serious boo-boos in my learning stage (Root can be hazardous to your system! :wacko: ), but I've learned by making those mistakes. I also learned from many, many folks who had "been there - done that" before me.It's been a lot of fun. Make sure it's fun for you too. That's the important part. Currently, I rarely ever boot Windows anymore. I have it on my system as a sort of security blanket to fall back on if I need it... and for playing games. Other than that, it may as well not be there. I do everything in Linux that I used to do in Windows, often more efficiently and with less hassle.Windows XP crashed on me four times in four years. We won't even talk about Win 98 here. Every time Linux has failed on my system it's been due either to a hardware failure or my own tweaking failures. It's dependable, secure, and has a FANTASTIC support community.Enjoy your Linux experience! :huh:~Eric

#34 OFFLINE   b2cm

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Posted 16 March 2007 - 04:10 AM

Quote

it won't let me save images of C: to the new 160G HD I just put in for him, using either Bing or PQ Drive Image 5.0. No idea yet why that is- one or the other has always worked for me in the past.
Try DriveImageXML instead. Then when reinstalling XP leave some space for Ubunto. B)

#35 OFFLINE   Cluttermagnet

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Posted 17 March 2007 - 02:15 AM

View Postb2cm, on Mar 16 2007, 04:10 AM, said:

Try DriveImageXML instead. Then when reinstalling XP leave some space for Ubunto. ;)
Hmmm-You know- I took a good look at that one, researched it a bit in forums, looking at user comments. It looks a bit geeky right now, what with having to slipstream it into a Bart CD and such. I think I'll stick with BootitNG and Drive Image 5.0 for now. They are relatively painless to use. I also got hold of a free copy of Acronis True Image 7.0 and the perpetual serial number from the folks at Acronis, so I'm OK to go with that one, too, when I get some time to learn it. It's a little geeky to set up, as well, if you want it to run only 'on demand' and not always in the background. Some clever .bat files are available to accomplish this. TI7 will still work in 98SE, the current TI 10 will not.What works in Linux? Does that DriveImageXML work in that OS? Any others? What is easy for non-geeks to start with?
Special Limited Edition Cluttermaster 2007 with direct air cooling system.
"ClutterLabs" --open hardware for open software" .......... Registered Linux User 446867


("It takes an entire village to raise a child...")
"It takes only one bulldozer to raze an entire village..."
"Hey, Fred- isn't that your kid driving that bulldozer?"

In loving memory of Bruno Knaapen of Amsterdam, who shared
his love of Linux, and thereby made the world a better place...

#36 OFFLINE   Urmas

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Posted 17 March 2007 - 02:45 AM

View PostCluttermagnet, on Mar 17 2007, 08:15 AM, said:

What works in Linux?
Creating partition images? In Ubuntu? "Our" Frank is the man with thousand and one images... see these links (two slighly different approaches):HOWTO: Backup with PartimageUsing PartImage in Ubuntu

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#37 OFFLINE   striker

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Posted 17 March 2007 - 05:29 AM

View PostCluttermagnet, on Mar 17 2007, 07:15 AM, said:

Hmmm-You know- I took a good look at that one, researched it a bit in forums, looking at user comments. It looks a bit geeky right now, what with having to slipstream it into a Bart CD and such. I think I'll stick with BootitNG and Drive Image 5.0 for now. They are relatively painless to use. I also got hold of a free copy of Acronis True Image 7.0 and the perpetual serial number from the folks at Acronis, so I'm OK to go with that one, too, when I get some time to learn it. It's a little geeky to set up, as well, if you want it to run only 'on demand' and not always in the background. Some clever .bat files are available to accomplish this. TI7 will still work in 98SE, the current TI 10 will not.What works in Linux? Does that DriveImageXML work in that OS? Any others? What is easy for non-geeks to start with?
I have some very bad experiences with TI 7: it can't do anything at all with SATA ... maybe it was how the clients machine was set up at which I tested it, dunno. But it left a bad taste here, so be prepared Clutter.  ;)
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#38 OFFLINE   ebrke

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Posted 17 March 2007 - 06:58 PM

View PostCluttermagnet, on Mar 17 2007, 02:15 AM, said:

What works in Linux? Does that DriveImageXML work in that OS? Any others? What is easy for non-geeks to start with?
BootIt has worked fine for me, both for creating and formatting linux partitions before installs and for imaging and restoring linux partitions (did quite a bit of restoring images when I first installed linux).  There is, of course, the feeling held by many that you should use linux tools for linux, but BootIt seems operating system independent in its own partition and has handled linux partitions without problems in my experience.

#39 OFFLINE   Cluttermagnet

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 04:18 AM

View Poststriker, on Mar 17 2007, 05:29 AM, said:

I have some very bad experiences with TI 7: it can't do anything at all with SATA ... maybe it was how the clients machine was set up at which I tested it, dunno. But it left a bad taste here, so be prepared Clutter.  B)
Thanks- striker!Understood. We're not dealing with SATA drives on the Dell machine. It's a Dimension 8250 and is about 4 years old. Drives are IDE/parallel ATA.The only reason I got TI7 was the irresistable free lifetime license offer, and the fact it will work in Win98SE. It doesn't work in XP. They hope you will like v.7 and upgrade to v.10 for XP. Fair enough. I intend to give TI7 a try on my 98 boxes at some point. BTW, it wants to always run a bunch of stuff in the background, once installed, so you might want to add some special .bat files that enable running it on demand only, by turning on its services only when needed and in the right order. If anyone is interested in how that is done, just ask, and I will supply the url to the procedure and its small downloadable file.

Edited by Cluttermagnet, 18 March 2007 - 04:24 AM.

Special Limited Edition Cluttermaster 2007 with direct air cooling system.
"ClutterLabs" --open hardware for open software" .......... Registered Linux User 446867


("It takes an entire village to raise a child...")
"It takes only one bulldozer to raze an entire village..."
"Hey, Fred- isn't that your kid driving that bulldozer?"

In loving memory of Bruno Knaapen of Amsterdam, who shared
his love of Linux, and thereby made the world a better place...

#40 OFFLINE   Cluttermagnet

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 04:23 AM

View PostUrmas, on Mar 17 2007, 02:45 AM, said:

Creating partition images? In Ubuntu? "Our" Frank is the man with thousand and one images... see these links (two slighly different approaches):
Thanks, Urmas!I looked at both these sites, and Partimage sounds like it might work for me in Linux- eventually. OTOH it sounds a bit geeky to me at the moment. Let's just say I will try it after I learn some of the more basic and important things in Ubuntu Linux which are done by command lines. I will definitely keep Partimage in mind as I go foreward learning Linux.
Special Limited Edition Cluttermaster 2007 with direct air cooling system.
"ClutterLabs" --open hardware for open software" .......... Registered Linux User 446867


("It takes an entire village to raise a child...")
"It takes only one bulldozer to raze an entire village..."
"Hey, Fred- isn't that your kid driving that bulldozer?"

In loving memory of Bruno Knaapen of Amsterdam, who shared
his love of Linux, and thereby made the world a better place...

#41 OFFLINE   Cluttermagnet

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 04:29 AM

View Postebrke, on Mar 17 2007, 06:58 PM, said:

BootIt has worked fine for me, both for creating and formatting linux partitions before installs and for imaging and restoring linux partitions (did quite a bit of restoring images when I first installed linux).  There is, of course, the feeling held by many that you should use linux tools for linux, but BootIt seems operating system independent in its own partition and has handled linux partitions without problems in my experience.
Thanks, ebrke!I have sure liked BootitNG so far, as used mostly in 98SE and a little in XP. Until this particular problem with one particular XP machine, it had been working fine for me in XP as well. I'm thinking that it may be a simple BIOS problem that prevents Bing from seeing that second HD in that particular machine. I will go do battle with it again early next week. I'll keep Bing in mind for Linux, too, and see how that works out later down the road.
Special Limited Edition Cluttermaster 2007 with direct air cooling system.
"ClutterLabs" --open hardware for open software" .......... Registered Linux User 446867


("It takes an entire village to raise a child...")
"It takes only one bulldozer to raze an entire village..."
"Hey, Fred- isn't that your kid driving that bulldozer?"

In loving memory of Bruno Knaapen of Amsterdam, who shared
his love of Linux, and thereby made the world a better place...

#42 OFFLINE   Urmas

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 04:43 AM

View PostCluttermagnet, on Mar 18 2007, 10:23 AM, said:

... after I learn some of the more basic and important things in Ubuntu Linux which are done by command lines.
"Basic" and "important" are subjective concepts, of course, but if we're talking about the number of [basic&important] things that can be done ONLY by command line, you're in for bit of a disappointment. However, in many situations the command line is a very tempting option indeed. Here's a [basic&important] example:How to install ANYTHING in Ubuntu! B)

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#43 OFFLINE   Cluttermagnet

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 06:51 AM

View PostUrmas, on Mar 18 2007, 04:43 AM, said:

"Basic" and "important" are subjective concepts, of course, but if we're talking about the number of [basic&important] things that can be done ONLY by command line, you're in for bit of a disappointment. However, in many situations the command line is a very tempting option indeed. Here's a [basic&important] example:How to install ANYTHING in Ubuntu! B)
Thanks, Urmas-That's a very well done page. I had seen and bookmarked it before, but it was good to revisit it just now. I will be reading and rereading it a lot as I learn how to get packages and install them. I'm going to be shy about command line methods at first, yet I am not afraid of them and I will learn them eventually. I will play safe at the beginning by letting the nice GUI tools they have written do the heavy lifting for me. Then I will grow in confidence and I will start doing more for myself. :thumbsup:Now for my next question- I've decided to let Ubuntu 6.06 be my first actual install (though certainly not my last or only Linux OS!) I'm wondering how to go about installing it over a trashed copy of 98SE I no longer wish to struggle with. The drive is formatted all FAT32. There are 3 partitions. When Ubuntu installs, I wonder where to put it? Ubuntu in live CD mode can't tell me partition sizes but I think they are all fairly large, say 20G or more. I think it is an 80G drive. If I were in Windows right now, I could know every detail. I assume Ubuntu sets up a boot loader? Maybe I'll let it install in one of the upper partitions, and not over the 98SE OS. I think I remember one generally installs Windows first, then later versions of Windows, then Linux? I don't really care. On this box, Linux can be the only OS, as far as I'm concerned. And I wish to avoid the pitfalls of multibooting anyway, if possible. I want to keep it simple for now.
Special Limited Edition Cluttermaster 2007 with direct air cooling system.
"ClutterLabs" --open hardware for open software" .......... Registered Linux User 446867


("It takes an entire village to raise a child...")
"It takes only one bulldozer to raze an entire village..."
"Hey, Fred- isn't that your kid driving that bulldozer?"

In loving memory of Bruno Knaapen of Amsterdam, who shared
his love of Linux, and thereby made the world a better place...

#44 OFFLINE   Urmas

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Posted 18 March 2007 - 07:04 AM

It's all in here: http://www.psychocat...untu/installingBut... short version: the installer gives you options... since you want to plough Windoze to the kingdom come, you choose "Erase entire disk etc." That's it. KISS in action.Posted Image(When I first installed Linux - Ubuntu 5.10 at that time - I couldn't believe how easy it was.) B)EDIT: Might be in order to mention that you can browse the net or play solitaire whilst installing... first time installers tend to get a kick out of this. B)

Edited by Urmas, 19 March 2007 - 05:53 AM.

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#45 OFFLINE   Cluttermagnet

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 05:52 AM

I'm now leaning towards doing the custom install #3 where you specify mount points and partitions. I'm slowly digesting the info on that install page. I played with my partition sizes on that 80G drive a couple days ago. I guess I'll take the risk of opening up in a multiboot environment, and just hope I don't regret it.What would be some good minimum size guidelines for the swap partition? How about root? How about the 3rd type, I think he called it Data or Documents or such. I remember he had something like 1G for swap, 125G for his data, and was it about 20G for root? But what would be a practical 'smaller' size?My 80G is presently partitioned 7.5G Windows and 3 more partitions all about 23G. I'd like to keep one or two free and put Linux in a third partition. Maybe I might divide one of the 23G partitions into 3 smaller ones for Linux? Or would I be running out of space too soon?7.5G Win98SE (for now)  FAT3223G Ubuntu (divide into 3 partitions)   ext3?23G Images, storage  FAT3223G Images, storage  FAT32Total becomes 6 partitions. Remember, I'm not a high power user, doing videos and lots of audio files- but I do store lots of emails, some photos and software, etc.

Edited by Cluttermagnet, 20 March 2007 - 05:59 AM.

Special Limited Edition Cluttermaster 2007 with direct air cooling system.
"ClutterLabs" --open hardware for open software" .......... Registered Linux User 446867


("It takes an entire village to raise a child...")
"It takes only one bulldozer to raze an entire village..."
"Hey, Fred- isn't that your kid driving that bulldozer?"

In loving memory of Bruno Knaapen of Amsterdam, who shared
his love of Linux, and thereby made the world a better place...

#46 OFFLINE   Urmas

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 06:23 AM

View PostCluttermagnet, on Mar 20 2007, 11:52 AM, said:

I'm now leaning towards doing the custom install #3 where you specify mount points and partitions. I'm slowly digesting the info on that install page. I played with my partition sizes on that 80G drive a couple days ago. I guess I'll take the risk of opening up in a multiboot environment, and just hope I don't regret it.
Nah... just don't choose the Windoze partition to be reformatted whilst installing [gigantic temptation moment here]   :D   ... or the storage partitions you actually have stuff in either... it'll go fine... Grub will pick up the Windoze and automagically create a boot entry... c'est tout.Swap... rule of thumb is 2*RAM.Root and home... dunno... 10 Gig root, 1 Gig swap (if you have 512 Megs of RAM)... the rest of it (12 Gig) for home, maybe. See, if "I'm not a high power user, doing videos and lots of audio files- but I do store lots of emails, some photos and software, etc." is true, you will have PLENTY of leg room.(I played with a PIII with 10GB for a year, and although I installed pretty much everything that moved/wore a skirt, I had no "space problems" whatsoever.Here's my Ubuntu/PCLos/Vector/Suse/Fedora/Mandriva partition setup:Posted Image10+10 for Ubuntu, 10 (root) + 5 (home) for the others... "common" swap and one "common" storage partition.READY, STEADY, GO!!!   :devil:

Edited by Urmas, 20 March 2007 - 07:06 AM.

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#47 OFFLINE   ross549

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 08:34 AM

My current install of Ubuntu + lots of extra software takes up about 6.8GB of space. I would say ten is save for your root. Then I would have about 2 GB for swap, and the rest for your /home, so you have plenty of space for your docs, and such.You will likely not run out of space anytime soon. ;)Adam
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#48 OFFLINE   Bruno

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Posted 20 March 2007 - 02:06 PM

View PostUrmas, on Mar 20 2007, 11:23 AM, said:

Root and home... dunno... 10 Gig root, 1 Gig swap (if you have 512 Megs of RAM)... the rest of it (12 Gig) for home, maybe.

View Postross549, on Mar 20 2007, 01:34 PM, said:

I would say ten is save for your root. Then I would have about 2 GB for swap, and the rest for your /home, so you have plenty of space for your docs, and such.
Yep I agree with the 2 previous suggestions . . . 10GB for root . . . . 1 or 2GB for /swap and the rest of the space for /homeBut note: you say you now have 4 partitions . . . and you want to split the 2nd partition in 3 parts . . . . potentially this could make a small mess of the partition table because the numbers will not follow logically. This is not a real show-stopper, Ubuntu will run even if you do not follow my advise, but I think a nice neat partition table makes future jobs easier. ;)So, here is my advise: in case the 2 last partitions are still empty ( I hope so ) the best you can do is delete the 3 empty 23GB partitions. Then create the partitions needed for Ubuntu, and finally re-create the last two 23GB partitions again.:D Bruno

#49 OFFLINE   Cluttermagnet

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 04:20 AM

Thanks, guys! All the suggestions are helping. I appreciate having some concrete numbers as to what size a Linux OS in current use would have, also the suggestions about partition sizes. Well, perhaps Bruno is right to suggest not to partition partitions to avoid a messed up partition table. Perhaps instead I just dump the top two 23G partitions and leave them as free space (only during OS install). And also perhaps I take the remaining 23G partition and shrink it and then create a couple more partitions in that area of the drive.Perhaps something like this?7.5G Win98SE FAT3210G root ext3?12G home ext3?1G common swap ext3? (yes, I have 512M RAM)Future 23G Windows storage FAT32Future 23G Linux storage ext3? (or can I also format this FAT32 and store files from Linux?)Then after both OS's are booting OK, I go back in and create those two other 23G storage  partitions.
Special Limited Edition Cluttermaster 2007 with direct air cooling system.
"ClutterLabs" --open hardware for open software" .......... Registered Linux User 446867


("It takes an entire village to raise a child...")
"It takes only one bulldozer to raze an entire village..."
"Hey, Fred- isn't that your kid driving that bulldozer?"

In loving memory of Bruno Knaapen of Amsterdam, who shared
his love of Linux, and thereby made the world a better place...

#50 OFFLINE   Cluttermagnet

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 04:47 AM

I think that once I have Linux on my hard drive and can start actually viewing and creating and moving files, I will more rapidly become comfortable using the new OS. Right now, the live CD sessions limit me too much (perhaps just as well!). I do find it ever so much more easy to get around using 98SE. No surprise- I have 10 years experience with Windows and just a little with Ubuntu. I think progress will come fast, once I really dig in. The concept of 'mounting' drives is a bit strange to Windows users, but I'll get used to it. A generation or two ago, they had to mount and unmount physical tape reels on transports, for gosh sakes!  B) I never complain about shoving in a CD or floppy or whatever- ("Hey, who bent the takeup reel on this thing?!") Still, mounting and unmounting is a little strange. Heh!In Ubuntu there is no indication of dialup modem online status (or else it is built in and I haven't found it yet). In 98SE, that is a slam dunk, I have constant online status indicaton. Even if it's nothing more than a little animated icon, that is actually quite helpful. I'm sure Linux has such little pieces of helper software, I just don't know them yet. Everything I know how to do in Windows, I am now going to learn how to do all over again- working with files and folders, downloading and installing software, working with audio and graphics, networking, and others. Fortunately, my Windows experiences puts me ahead on the curve. I know what a Windows box can do, all tricked out with 3rd party software, so I expect to take less time in relearning each skill. Yes, I do know about that website that lists Linux vs. Windows equivalent software packages. :thumbsup:

Edited by Cluttermagnet, 21 March 2007 - 04:51 AM.

Special Limited Edition Cluttermaster 2007 with direct air cooling system.
"ClutterLabs" --open hardware for open software" .......... Registered Linux User 446867


("It takes an entire village to raise a child...")
"It takes only one bulldozer to raze an entire village..."
"Hey, Fred- isn't that your kid driving that bulldozer?"

In loving memory of Bruno Knaapen of Amsterdam, who shared
his love of Linux, and thereby made the world a better place...




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