KCDoug Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 Anal retentive me is in the market for a solid disk defrag tool. I like to keep my drives as pristine and optimized as I reasonably can. I've read some reviews at PC Mag and others, but would appreciate some real user comments. I'm running XP home, have a RAID 0 comprised of 2 120GB SATA Drives and another 120MB ATA HD for backups. 1 GB Ram.Thanks for your opinions & suggestions.-Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peachy Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 Diskeeper.The defragmenter in XP is actually a stripped down version of Diskeeper Lite. Norton SystemsWork also has a defragmenter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paracelsus Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 While I've found Diskeeper to be valuable with NT... It's never done a very good job with XP.In another thread on the subject of thoroughly defragging XP, IBE98765 turned me on to PerfectDisk from Raxco.I was impressed with the shareware version and immediately purchased a license. It's the only defragger I've used that makes a noticeable improvement in performance on my WinXPHome system.This is, of course, MHO... YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muckshifter Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 Diskeeper.The defragmenter in XP is actually a stripped down version of Diskeeper Lite.Is it? I wonder ...Executive Software had a source code license to the operating system and patched the os kernal. This caused all sorts of problems as they really weren't supposed to replace the OS kernal ... End result was that if MS released a sp/hotfix, it would break executives stuff or ever worse, corrupt data.What ended up happening is that MS and ES got together and said "this isn't working very well. What can we do". End result is that ES worked with MS on the defrag API specifications (how to call, what information to return) and MS actually wrote the defrag APIs. How this got translated into the urban myth that it is - who knows. The fact that ES tells people that they wrote them probably has something to do with it In regards to the built-in defragmenter under Win2k. At the time that Win2k was in development YEARS before it was released, there really was only 1 player in the defrag market for NT - ES. That's why MS partnered with ES to include a stripped down version in the operating system. In regards to WinXP, ES helped to write the built-in defragmenter - to MS' specifications. MS has sole control/ownership of the code and over future direction of the built-in defragmenter. - Greg/Raxco Software Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus K Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 While I've found Diskeeper to be valuable with NT... It's never done a very good job with XP.In another thread on the subject of thoroughly defragging XP, IBE98765 turned me on to PerfectDisk from Raxco.I was impressed with the shareware version and immediately purchased a license. It's the only defragger I've used that makes a noticeable improvement in performance on my WinXPHome system...So you are saying that after running XP's own defragger you can follow with Perfect Disk and there is some performance gain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M. Fisher Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Anal retentive me is in the market for a solid disk defrag tool. I like to keep my drives as pristine and optimized as I reasonably can. I've read some reviews at PC Mag and others, but would appreciate some real user comments. I'm running XP home, have a RAID 0 comprised of 2 120GB SATA Drives and another 120MB ATA HD for backups. 1 GB Ram.Thanks for your opinions & suggestions.-DougWhy not download trial copies and decide for yourself what works best with your hardware, Doug?Personally, I like Diskeeper 8, but PerfectDisk is a close second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeber Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 While I won't pretend to know more than Greg Hayes, who is both an MS MVP but also works for a competitor of ES (I'll let James do that if he wishes ) the version of Diskeeper that ships with XP does not have the "set it and forget it" option that the full retail version does. So it would at least qualify as a feature-disabled version. Still, both versions do a decent job. I also have O&O Defrag and find it even a bit more effective than ES Diskeeper, as it will defrag your data based on several different criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M. Fisher Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 While I won't pretend to know more than Greg Hayes, who is both an MS MVP but also works for a competitor of ES (I'll let James do that if he wishes )I had forgotten that fact.... I like DK's "Set it and Forget It" feature. I have it set to "Screensaver Mode", so it defrags whilst I'm away from the PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paracelsus Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 So you are saying that after running XP's own defragger you can follow with Perfect Disk and there is some performance gain?That is Precisely what I am saying.And I have tried that process with other defraggers as well, and PerfectDisk won, hands-down, for me. A comparison of the before and after drive maps provides visual evidence as well. PD more thoroughly consolidated Free Space, as well.PerfectDisk also has a Boot Defrag option, which neither the residence XP tool, nor the free version of Diskeeper have.Again...This is all just my own experience. After using Perfect, not only was overall system response time shorter, when several apps were open and actively in use... System start-up time was considerably reduced. A stop watch provided tangible evidence to this. Besides...I'd be loath to plunk down ~40USD (not including the discount) for a single purpose tool like a Defragger, if it hadn't made a difference that others did not. :thumbsup:But as the venerable James suggests....The proof is in what any of these may do for you! Everyone's system is unique to a certain degree. It's quite possible that others have had very good success with Diskeeper or even the native XP defragger, that I did not.Since most of these apps permit some kind of trial version... give 'em a test drive... and as with so many other things in life... YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus K Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 That is Precisely what I am saying.And I have tried that process with other defraggers as well, and PerfectDisk won, hands-down, for me. A comparison of the before and after drive maps provides visual evidence as well. PD more thoroughly consolidated Free Space, as well.PerfectDisk also has a Boot Defrag option, which neither the residence XP tool, nor the free version of Diskeeper have....Because it looks better does not mean there is a performance gain. Diskeeper actually seems to slow things down as it re-does XP's optimizing file placement, and then it wants you to defrag again at the end of the day.Unfortunately I've seen no independant data/figures/tests that back up any performance gains following XP's own defrag with another.From PCWorld:DefraggersBest Bet: Windows XP Disk Defragmenter As you create, delete, and edit files, they become increasingly fragmented--scattered in pieces all over the hard drive. A defragger reunites these pieces. We used to say that defragging would speed up a system, but with today's larger, faster hard drives, that no longer seems true.The PC World Test Center's tests reveal that defraggers don't actually improve performance. And Steve Gibson, president of PC consulting firm Gibson Research Corporation, confirmed our findings.A few links:http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,a...743,pg,8,00.asphttp://www.techbuilder.org/article.htm?ArticleID=47626 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paracelsus Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Because it looks better does not mean there is a performance gain.Agreed...But please read the entire post.After using Perfect, not only was overall system response time shorter, when several apps were open and actively in use... System start-up time was considerably reduced. A stop watch provided tangible evidence to this.I'm not prone to "Delusions". As an Analytical Chemist, my skills of observation are quite well honed... thank-you very much. I know how to make determinations that are removed from wishful speculation. Additionally...Most people, including myself, don't have access to the systems that PCWorld used for their tests... We only have our own. Not everyone has the "latest & greatest" Drives; Processors a/o RAM modules.As I've stated throughout this discussion...This is my experience based upon numerous trials, with many different Defrag apps, on my own system. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M. Fisher Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 Interesting page on "The Myths of Fragmentation" on ES' site:http://consumer.execsoft.com/diskeeper/myths.asp?RId=50DK8 also has a feature called "Performance Data Collection" (which is OFF by default): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRD Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 I also tried PerfectDisk as suggested by ibe98765 and noticed a perfomance increase over my current defragger (jetdefrag) Its on my list of utilities to purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibe98765 Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 For current users of PD, don't forget to check for updates occasionally. The latest build is 6.0.034. What's new in PerfectDisk build 6.00.034- On certain machines, the scheduler module could not always be started during the installation. The installation script has been modified to correct this error. - Offline defrag code was improved to handle highly fragmented files more efficiently. In some cases highly fragmented files would have been skipped during an offline defragmentation pass. - Renaming Exchange schedules did not work. This has been corrected. - When deploying PerfectDisk with Group Policy several warnings are recorded by the MSIInstaller service. Microsoft has determined this is normal expected behavior, however by re-sequencing some installation steps Raxco has avoided these warnings. - Fixed duplicate column header name in PerfectDisk Trending output file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paracelsus Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Thanks, IBE98765!!Was running some tweaks a little while ago...And PD alerted me to the update upon reboot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b2cm Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 I'm not prone to "Delusions". As an Analytical Chemist, my skills of observation are quite well honed... thank-you very much. Although I mainly employ a poetic, mythological method of observation, I affirm the conclusions of my favorite scientist (Labrat), as well as that of the expert NRD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quint Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Why not download trial copies and decide for yourself what works best with your hardware, Doug? Vopt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paracelsus Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 ... I affirm the conclusions of my favorite scientist (Labrat), as well as that of the expert NRD. LR thanks you (and NRD) for the independent corroboration (I may experience Alternate Realities, but I'm not delusional... Yet!)BTW - you forgot the prefix "mad" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCDoug Posted August 23, 2004 Author Share Posted August 23, 2004 Thanks one and all for interesting exchange. I picked up a few more useful tips & links, and it does make sense to download a trial or two and see for myself what, if any benefit defragging does anymore - and whether or not I need to use anything beyond the WINXP bundled defragger.Cheers,-Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunrat Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 I'm with quint . VoptXP does the job quickly (around 30% of the time builtin defrag takes), efficiently and safely. It also has some utilities such as pagefile optimizer and temp file cleaner that help prepare for better defragging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibe98765 Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 The old Central Point Tools defragger used to have a very nice function - if you clicked on any of the cluster squares in the graphic, it told you what file that square represented. This was a great tool for when you were trying to find out why a file wasn't moved (it was a locked system file, part of the page file or whatever).I had a discussion with Raxco on this. They said they could do it but it was high overhead, so weren't inclined to do so.Does anyone know of a defragger that does this today for WinXP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M. Fisher Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 I think Norton's Speed Disk had a feature similar to this, but I could be mistaken; it's been years since I used it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paracelsus Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 I think Norton's Speed Disk had a feature similar to this, but I could be mistaken; it's been years since I used it.... I still have it... I'll give a look see later and report Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibe98765 Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 I think Norton's Speed Disk had a feature similar to this, but I could be mistaken; it's been years since I used it.... Yes, Norton had it years ago when they acquired Central Point and adopted their defragger. But I believe they removed this functionality some time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M. Fisher Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 There are utilities like DirGraph or SequoiaView which will show what files and folders are placed where on the partition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibe98765 Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 There are utilities like DirGraph or SequoiaView which will show what files and folders are placed where on the partition.No, those aren't what I mean. There are a large number of these typoe of things out there.The value for this technology is specifically in a defragger where you want to try to figure out why something wasn't moved. Therefore, it has to be part of the defragger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsden11 Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 The whole point of defragging files is to get your files in contigeous form. Some of these apps try to move files around in an attempt to speed up access but the real purpose is to diminish your HD heads flying all over **** and back trying to locate bits of files. The less head activity... the faster your files will be accessed. Aside from that, keeping them defragged by using features like Set it and Forget it, allow the system to be in it's optimal defragged state. If it is defragging every day the amount of fragmentation will be slight and the defrag program will take only seconds to run and optimze files... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M. Fisher Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 No, those aren't what I mean. There are a large number of these typoe of things out there. I knew that; I was merely trying to provide some alternative for those that might be interested in seeing what files are located where on their HDD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCDoug Posted September 2, 2004 Author Share Posted September 2, 2004 FWIW I decided to license PerfectDisk. The demo I downloaded did okay on my older W2K laptop and it worked fine on my fancy XP desktop. Plus they were running a 20% off promo. For an extra $8 on the download they offered a year of phone support and free upgrade to any major release for up to a year; They are forecasting the new v.7. for a Q1 '05 release. Since a major upgrade after 90 days usually costs about $20, I said why not. Though I shouldn't need much phone or other support for a defragger.Gotta say that the automated email I got from sales after downloading the demo was well done, and I received a live email from a salesperson after I downloaded my purchase. I responded to his message and got a prompt reply and a "let me know if you have any problems in the future." He also asked for any product enhancements suggestions so I told 'em that error checking before defragging is a good thing and would be nice to see integrated into their package.At least we're starting our relationship off on a better than average note. Sure wish some other utilities I have were interactive.-Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M. Fisher Posted September 3, 2004 Share Posted September 3, 2004 Sounds good Doug! I actually have PD6 installed on SP2 right now. I vaccilate between it and Diskeeper 8 for some reason.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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