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Mozilla Flavors Confusion


RandomBox

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I have attempted to drill thru the mozilla.org site in attempts to determine what the differences are between the MozillaBrowser (V1.3.1) and MozillaFireBird! I spent about 20 minutes reading thru a lot of the relevant Mozilla information! -> However, I was not successful in getting a handle as to what MozillaFireBird really is and how it differs from MozillaBrowser!-> I would also like to know if MozillaBrowser needs to be uninstalled; if I choose to try out MozillaFireBird!At least now I know that MozillaFireBird is compatible with SkyPilot skin!Thank you in advance for shedding some light on these two questions!

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mozilla 1.31 (and 1.4) are based on 'seamonkey' code, which dates back to early netscape.mozilla firebird is in beta testing and its a complete rewrite of mozilla in new XUL code. it's a lot faster and more cross-platform friendly code.starting with mozilla 1.5, mozilla.org says they will merge firebird code and kick out seamonkey code.basically, mozilla 1.3 and 1.4 are final stable builds, while firebird is in heavy beta testing, though its newer builds are getting quite good.and yes, you can have both installed.certain skins or plugins only work on one or other though.

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I personally am sticking to Mozilla 1.4 and will wait until Firebird is integrated into Mozilla 1.5 before switching. thats just my preference, as I'd rather have stability than beta testing the latest and greatest. But i do install a nightly build of Firebird once a while just to try it out and they both co-exist nicely on my hard drive. Also, with Mozilla 1.3, i found it takes about 3 to 4 seconds to boot up while firebird boots in about 1 second. I was about to switch fully to firebird and live with the bugs, but I've found the speed in Mozilla 1.4 to be vastly improved. Still slower than firebird, but at 2 seconds, not too shabby. If i didnt use Mozilla mail daily, i might switch to firebird now instead of waiting for mozilla 1.5, but thunderbird (the new email client based on the new code of firebird) is in pre-alpha-alpha state :D

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Exactly what Prelude said... :)Also, the two browsers will eventually become the MozillaBrowser... Once they get Firebird stabilized, they will merge the two and have one browser (based on Firebird's code)... The other current difference is that Mozilla has an email client built in, while Firebird doesn't. They are working on Thunderbird, which will become the new mail client, but it isn't even alpha yet, so will be a bit before I'd recommend using it full time. It's a very nice email client though and will be a slick replacement for MozillaMail once they get it done. :)As he said, both browsers are stand-alone and can be run side-by-side with no ill effects. :D

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One thing to add to Prelude's message... I don't think you'll find Firebird too buggy... It has a few issues, but overall, it's quite stable... I use it as my main browser and wouldn't change to anything else! I've never run into a crash with it and only once in awhile does a bug affect how I use it. :)Check out the Download links thread and Go nuts! The other thing about FB is that at it's base, it's a very simple, streamlined browser... To gain some of the extra functionality, you can download extensions to help tweak it to your liking... See the extensions link in the download thread.Here's a link to the Download Thread.Enjoy!

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Also, the two browsers will eventually become the MozillaBrowser...  Once they get Firebird stabilized, they will merge the two and have one browser (based on Firebird's code)...
i read at Mozillazine.org that their trying to find a way to bridge the gap and have firebird and thunderbird more integrated.I guess it doesnt help having Firebird at 0.6 and quite stable, while Thunderbird is at 0.1 and unstable. :D
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T-bird is making giant strides, and has become quite stable... The latest build (yesterday's) is very stable and has quite a few bugfixes. The main thing T-bird lacks is feature implementation... There is quite a bit of stuff they want in it, but with only one developer right now, it could be awhile... I use t-bird as my only mail client as well (helps for testing purposes), and very rarely do I have anything major to report as a bug... Mozilla needs to step up and put some people on this project and get it up to pace with the rest. :D

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Mozilla needs to step up and put some people on this project and get it up to pace with the rest. :D
i think they (mozilla team) said their going to concentrate on getting 1.4 fully polished before assigned everyone on the phoenix/t-bird builds. so in about a week, except to see huge strides in their development. my guess is Mozilla 1.5 complete with Firebird and T-Bird out by end of summer (cross fingers)
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I do know there will be a Firebird 0.7 release before they start combining (at least that's what the current roadmap says)... Don't know exactly what the plans are after that. :D Also, they should be getting close to having an official 0.1 release of T-bird... I'm sure it'll come quick once Mozilla 1.4 hits. :D

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Thank you for the clarifications! I know that all of uze guyz are part of a conspiracy. Uze are trying to force me to re-install V1.4 again!I will wait for official release next week! :unsure:I may be so ignorant not to know what "seamonkey" and/or "XUL" codes are about!Yet, each time I use my beloved MozillaBrowserV1.3.1, I just feel so bad for all those peepz who donot even know that there are alternatives to InternetExplorer!I am saddened even more by the AOYellarz! Could you imagine? :) Poor Folk!

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i know what you mean about confusionwe sometimes fail to realize that words like "mozilla, firebird, phoenix, minotaur, thunderbird, seamonkey" can really scare off some folks who just like clicking on the big blue "E" on their desktop for internet :)

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I may be so ignorant not to know what "seamonkey" and/or "XUL" codes are about!Yet, each time I use my beloved MozillaBrowserV1.3.1, I just feel so bad for all those peepz who donot even know that there are alternatives to InternetExplorer!I am saddened even more by the AOYellarz!  Could you imagine? :D  Poor Folk!
Microsoft's marketing practices are mostly to blame for those who know of nothing but IE (sadly, a young girl came to my house and *couldn't find* the Web browser!). However, if they stick to one employee's words that IE for Windows won't be updated outside of the operating system, maybe it'll encourage more to migrate to better browsers, like Opera or Mozilla/Netscape. (They recently axed IE/Mac, which was actually good.) Or maybe we'll be stuck with some 90% of surfers stuck on outdated surfboards for years to come... :( As for AOL, I am a subscriber. Mostly for my family, although I can't convince them to use an external browser, and as part of AOL's recent deal with Microsoft, we probably won't see Gecko in AOL until after 2010, if ever. (Note how Microsoft announced their plans for IE only after they sealed this deal...)
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  • 3 weeks later...

Since I posted my original question (June 18th) about MozillaFirebird, I finally got the nerve to install it in my system!I hate to put a damper on everyone's kudos for MozillaFireBird but I must say that I am NOT impressed by it at all! Not one iota! :lol: MozillaFirebird certainly is NOT ready for primetime! Don't get me wrong: I love my MozillaBrowser (V1.3.1) and would NOT consider using any alternatives yet! My exposure to FireBirdBrowser, thus far, has not been pleasant and firmly believe that it is to be considered just barely a BETA! There are a lot of things it does not do and most plug-ins are not even available yet! Yes, it is much quicker to load than MozillaBrowser but, but, but .......... maybe in time, it will mature and will become as good (if not better than) MozillaBrowser; but I would not even consider recommending it to anyone! Too many bugs and too many voids and too many things it does NOT do yet to match the power of MozillaBrowser! Too bad for that! :D I really had high hopes for it! But I will take a rain check at the moment! Where the heck is the F9 key in Firebird anyways??My initial reason for taking the plunge was because MozillaBrowser V1.4 has not worked for me yet >> even after numerous attempts to install it in my system with no success! I have even posted a bug report about the fact that it does not launch in my system (See Bugzilla Report# 212229) no matter what I do! So I must continue to use MozillaBrowser V1.3.1, until such time that I get a reply back from Bugzilla or can figure an alternative to make V1.4 function in my system! But until then .......... ;)

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Since I posted my original question (June 18th) about MozillaFirebird, I finally got the nerve to install it in my system!I hate to put a damper on everyone's kudos for MozillaFireBird but I must say that I am NOT impressed by it at all!  Not one iota!  :lol: MozillaFirebird certainly is NOT ready for primetime!  Don't get me wrong:  I love my MozillaBrowser (V1.3.1) and would NOT consider using any alternatives yet!  My exposure to FireBirdBrowser, thus far, has not been pleasant and firmly believe that it is to be considered just barely a BETA!  There are a lot of things it does not do and most plug-ins are not even available yet! Yes, it is much quicker to load than MozillaBrowser but, but, but ..........  maybe in time, it will mature and will become as good (if not better than) MozillaBrowser; but I would not even consider recommending it to anyone!  Too many bugs and too many voids and too many things it does NOT do yet to match the power of MozillaBrowser!  Too bad for that!  :(  I really had high hopes for it!  But I will take a rain check at the moment!  Where the heck is the F9 key in Firebird anyways??My initial reason for taking the plunge was because MozillaBrowser V1.4 has not worked for me yet >> even after numerous attempts to install it in my system with no success!  I have even posted a bug report about the fact that it does not launch in my system (See Bugzilla Report# 212229) no matter what I do!  So I must continue to use MozillaBrowser V1.3.1, until such time that I get a reply back from Bugzilla or can figure an alternative to make V1.4 function in my system!  But until then ..........  ;)
RandomBox,Welcome. :D I respect your choices, and opinions, but could you give some "specifics" about:
NOT impressed by it at all!
? Have been using "Firebird" almost exclusively, for quite some time now, and although I've noticed a few "quirks" in the past, the "0.6 build 070103" has been flawless for me, so far. I am a Linux user, but also have this build on the kids' computer, which uses Win98SE, and is "getting on in years", but MozillaFirebird works just as well on it. :D Also have Mozilla 1.4, and enjoy it also. :D
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randombox. did you manual delete the mozilla folder? a lot of people had problems installing as if you have extensions geared toward mozilla 1.3 or earlier, some may cause the installation to fail, so by zapping the folder, and reloading moz 1.4 fresh, 95% of people got the installation problem licked. are you one of the other 5%? its a shame, coz 1.4 is light speed faster than 1.3 IMO. boots twice as fast, and thats without the silly QuickLoad feature.

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i agree with what randombox is trying to say. i loaded firebird and thunderbird to check them out, and even though i love their speed and customizible toolbars and sidebar improvements, i can't get over the fact that there is no FILE/SEND PAGE or FILE/SEND LINK. as soon as those things are added and firebird can send links you're visiting to thunderbird's email as easily as FILE/SEND LINK, i'll switch. its just that while i surf sites at work, i always send links of good sites to my home email for future bookmarking and reading, and i can't live without that feature. :lol:

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Randombox, Did you find the Firebird Extensions page? http://texturizer.net/firebird/extensions.htmlThis site will give you a lot of the "plugin" functionality that you seem to be missing. Sorry that you weren't impressed, but like quint, I'd be very interested in the specifics of your dislike... I do agree that it has a few bugs, and is lacking some functionality yet, but for the most part, it's very complete... Give it a thorough "review" and we'll be happy to listen. <_<

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GolfProRM, Prelude76 and quint,First off, I would like to thank you for responding and going above and beyond! The FireBird extensions page is finally what prompted to write back here earlier today! I attemped one of the plug-ins (it was an enhancement to TabBrowsing but not MultiZilla that I could not coax to work with my FireBird) and the $%^& page said the writer was having difficulties with the plug-in and would correct the problem in two weeks (from May 10th >> lol)! I gave up and hence was forced to write back and say what I said earlier today! What strikes me even funnier is that Scott has accumilated over 18+ pages of HallOfShame inputs and I see a trend that scares me! *Everyone is so ready to shoot down WinOS or uS applications for the smallest little problem that they witness with it!*Yet all the PenguinHeads brag how great Linux is!*Furthermore, I hear these inputs about how FireBird is the next best thing since sliced bread!Then, I read the same people (that grind axes about this software or that application or these utilities) are the same folk that donot even hesitate to make excuses and pull justifications out of a hat when it comes to Linux or FireBird! If it takes me 4+ hours in attempts to make MozillaBrowserV1.4 work and then another 20+ minutes to go to BugZilla to attempt to tell them everything that I did to make it work with no results and don't even get a reply back! Heck, how could anyone blame me for not wanting to try it ever again! You may wish to call it a cockpit error or call me stupid or IDtenT or worry that I may need a patch/upgrade to make sure my fingers have the right version to communicate with Mozilla >> I really don't care! I would rather read a novel than waste anymore time with either MozillaBrowserV1.4 or With MozillaFirebird! And don't mind me avoiding any Linux flavor as if it has AIDS for even grander reasons!I may get banned from this great forum site for saying the foregoing but it is my IHMO and I will stick by it! <_< Grrrrrr!But none of the above means that I didnot TRULY appreciate all of you guys attempting to help me out with these problems that I witnessed! And I am trully sorry to have wasted all of your time! Peace!

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Hey... Again, I'm sorry that Moz1.4/Firebird aren't for you... Not every piece of software is right for everyone... I do agree that some things may have gotten out of hand with the Windows vs. Linux, and even with Firebird, but don't regret expressing your opinions! Everyone has a right to their own opinion, and if you don't like the Mozilla projects, stand behind that statement! We're not trying to lash out at you or anything mean spirited, we're only trying to help you get to know something we enjoy. :) If we go over the top with it, I apologize... As far as the TabBrowsing plugin you were trying to work with, there are two listed Extensions: TabBrowser Extensions and Tabbrowser Preferences... The TBExtensions is the good one, the other one really should be removed from the list... If you decide to give it a whirl again, try TBE :) If not, no worries... Again, don't be afraid to express your opinions... Everyone is welcome here and has a right to express his/her self. I'm sorry you have frustrations, but it kind of goes hand in hand with computing... ;)BTW... don't feel like you wasted our time... you definitely did not! If you have any other quesitons about anything, don't hesitate to ask! We're here to help! :D

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SonicDragon
Again, don't be afraid to express your opinions... Everyone is welcome here and has a right to express his/her self. I'm sorry you have frustrations, but it kind of goes hand in hand with computing...
Definatly don't feel bad about expressing opinions. As was already stated, every piece of software is not right for everyone. We're not here to force a piece of software down your throught. That's what's great about free software, you can download and download untill you find what fits your best :D
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GolfProRM >> you're cool!  That cool white hats fits you well!  10Q!
Gee.... and to think I've been searching for a different avatar pic... now I'll have to keep it! :D btw... you're welcome. :)
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Hi RandomBox,I have a hard time believing that there can be something so wrong with Moz 1.4, FB for you that can't be overcome by trying it again from scratch. I'm one of the lesser computer talented folks here on the forum, and I've had absolutely no problems, win2k or linux. could it be something as simple as not restarting your computer after uninstalling 1.3 before installing 1.4?? I never reinstall a newer version of anything without a restart after uninstall. better safe than sorry.I had no trouble (with either) in both my administrator and primary user account (Power User priv). The 1.4 mail did everything it was supposed to. (thanks again for the advice, Prelude and Ryan).I just started using Mozilla and FB (from 1.2, to current, and FB 0.6) in the last couple of months, and am quite happy with them.good luck, whatever you choose to do!!

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brucekrymow

Hi, Random ~I am speaking for myself and from the perspective as a former Moz 1.3 hater. icon8.gifI, too, have ruminated over the the considerable bias you noted quietly growing in SFNLF, however, I set the prejudices aside and made observation of some of the more sagacious and discerning members that have shared experiences with as much impartiality as can be expected. Upon undertaking F-Bird with some resistful effort (on my part), this thread overcame all objections and encumbrances in one short afternoon and I must abashedly admit it is the best thing to come along since two-sided buttered bread! :lol:

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I think I finally get it! I really mean that!Now I understand the attraction to MozillaFireBird! I really do!And, once again, I must apologize to uze guyz! Uze are not geeks! That would be too deragatory! Uze are ESOTERIC computer people! I mean that with utmost respect and envy! Uze have perseverance and uze are beyond just being inquisitive! Uze guyz are like explorers and have the patience for not leaving any rock unturned! I say all of this with great respect and admiration!Hence my decision to leave MozillaFireBird to uze all! ............. and the meek (including this Fly) shall inherit the earth! :( This whole MozillaFireBird panacea is like the difference between getting to the destination versus enjoying the trip!Or more akin to the demarcation line between a "Mac User" and a PC person!I, for one, have elected to get to my destination, rather than enjoying the trip! This MozillaFireBird stuff is way over the top for me! Once I started dwelving into the nuances; I finally figure out that if I never see a "user.js" file or never have to insert specific argument into it, I will die a happy man! I love being equipped with the proper tools for any job at hand! But the price of admission to this whole MozillaFirebird scene is beyond my means! I guess I am more like the "Mac User" of the PC domain! I don't want to have to tweak this or modifiy that to make my InternetBrowser do the things that I want it to do! Simply put >> I just want to get to www.INTEREST.com, I don't even give a hoot if it is an http:// or an https:// or even an ftp:// site (wait, wait: Was that a Colon or a semi-Colon? No, no: Was that a forward slash or was that a backward slash?? Hey, hey: Were there two slashes or a single one??)! I want the information that I am INTERESTed in, and I don't give a hoot how I get there or what gets me there! Oh yeah, and I want it under 100milliSeconds!Don't get me wrong, this thing called MozillaFirebird must be a passion! I can handle keyboards shortcuts but when I have to submit a thesis paper on "mouse gestures" .............. errrr, I'd rather have root canal!No thank you! As with most things, I may eat my words for saying all of the above but I really donot want to earn an advanced degree in WebBrowsing to browse the web! :(

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I think I finally get it! I really mean that!Now I understand the attraction to MozillaFireBird!  I really do!And, once again, I must apologize to uze guyz!  Uze are not geeks!  That would be too deragatory! Uze are ESOTERIC computer people!  I mean that with utmost respect and envy!  Uze have perseverance and uze are beyond just being inquisitive!  Uze guyz are like explorers and have the patience for not leaving any rock unturned!  I say all of this with great respect and admiration!Hence my decision to leave MozillaFireBird to uze all!  ............. and the meek (including this Fly) shall inherit the earth! :( This whole MozillaFireBird panacea is like the difference between getting to the destination versus enjoying the trip!Or more akin to the demarcation line between a "Mac User" and a PC person!I, for one, have elected to get to my destination, rather than enjoying the trip!  This MozillaFireBird stuff is way over the top for me!  Once I started dwelving into the nuances; I finally figure out that if I never see a "user.js" file or never have to insert specific argument into it, I will die a happy man!  I love being equipped with the proper tools for any job at hand!  But the price of admission to this whole MozillaFirebird scene is beyond my means!  I guess I am more like the "Mac User" of the PC domain!  I don't want to have to tweak this or modifiy that to make my InternetBrowser do the things that I want it to do!  Simply put >> I just want to get to www.INTEREST.com, I don't even give a hoot if it is an http:// or an https:// or even an ftp:// site (wait, wait: Was that a Colon or a semi-Colon?  No, no: Was that a forward slash or was that a backward slash??  Hey, hey: Were there two slashes or a single one??)!  I want the information that I am INTERESTed in, and I don't give a hoot how I get there or what gets me there!  Oh yeah, and I want it under 100milliSeconds!Don't get me wrong, this thing called MozillaFirebird must be a passion!  I can handle keyboards shortcuts but when I have to submit a thesis paper on "mouse gestures" .............. errrr, I'd rather have root canal!No thank you!  As with most things, I may eat my words for saying all of the above but I really donot want to earn an advanced degree in  WebBrowsing to browse the web! :(
Thank you, RandomBox, I now clearly see where you are coming from - truly hope that you find the appropriate browser. :(
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randombox: i dont know if you're ranting just to provoke a flame war, or just don't see the point.making comments like "i dont want to know http or https or ftp" , i just dont get where you;re going with this. this is standard web lingo. its in Internet Explorer too. and no, you dont have to type http:// when keying in websites in Moz. so whats the dillio? and ranting about plugins and tweakin being too complex, just chill. you don't HAVE to edit user.js files and you dont HAVE to install every plugin. i've installed mozilla for my brothers, and even on my dad's PC. and i certainly didnt have to spend months training them to use it, as you imply. in fact, i didnt show them anything. everyone understands Address Bar, Back, Forward, Reload and Search. if you choose to jump into mouse gestures plugins, advanced tab browser extensions, and such, maybe its best not to complain its too complex. they are, after all, plugins, and some of us 'tweakers' who like to enhance our web browsing experience like all them plugins just fine. but basically, you could use Moz in its default, easy as "IE" state, or you can tweak the heck outta it. its your 'CHOICE'. but if you dislike 'CHOICES', maybe its best you stick to Microsoft-issue software and cease the ranting. (hint hint, try MSN Explorer; its even EASIER and less customizable than IE)true, some people just want to get to their destinations, such as "where do you want to go today?".but others prefer to drive there themselves, since we can speed all we want and take shortcuts to get there.peace.

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Prelude76, To get extra credit; please re-read the first six lines of my last entry and see if you can answer your initial question of the first line!How many more kudos can I provide uze guyz in earnest and not get skewers shish kebab'ed between my ears???It is one think to humbly accept compliments but totally another to ridicule the one that thanked you for your time and efforts!Peace to you, as well!

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Definition:  ESOTERIC = Intended for or understood by only a particular group: an esoteric cult.
It is one think to humbly accept compliments but totally another to ridicule the one that thanked you for your time and efforts!
please, spare me of your mighty humbling compliments, randombox. your post wasnt to thank everyone for helping you with your mozilla problems. it is one of ridiculing moz/firebird, making it seem like a geek-only tool, and comparing its experience to a root canal, and so on. and i wasnt ridiculing you with suggestions for MSN Explorer. I honestly believe that if you found Mozilla as complex and painful as a root canal, then MSN explorer with its simplified interface and complete lack of customization might be your cup of tea.
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Fellow members,Everyone here is entitled to their opinion. By posting in these forums, you also agree to allow others to have opinions you may not share, and not get personally insulting regarding their opinions. I don't intend to close or delete this thread. Up 'till now it has had some very useful input. But if the rudeness doesn't cease, I will be forced to take action to prevent this sort of behavior from appearing sanctioned by the forum administrators. It is not.Now come on. Let's get back on topic, allow the fact that not everyone will like or understand Mozilla browsers, and move on.I for one have been enjoying using Firebird as my default browser for several weeks now, and I'm constantly finding more about it that I like. True, I wish MozMail was integrated...but for now I just keep Eudora open in the background, copy/paste URL's I want to send, and use Eudora to send them. Couple of extra clicks, no big deal. Meanwhile, I'm saving a couple of clicks by having an auto-complete fill-in that doesn't require another confirmation click to use. It all balances out. And I'm still a fan of StumbleUpon. And it is fast at loading pages. Even Opera seems slow by comparison. So I'm sticking with it. I hope all the features I love don't get left on the cutting room floor when they finally merge Firebird and Mozilla.

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