Muckshifter & Suse (Linux) ... part II

[muckshifter]

Today we start a new chapter. ... we, that is you and this monkey, are going to 'attempt' to use an external USB hard drive.First we need to understand the Rules of this engagement1. You must first attempt to use the "tools" provide by Suse2. You must attempt to convey, using Suse as an example, and in one syllable words, "how" this could be achieved.3. Screen shots should be used if possible within the constrictions allowed by Scot's NF.4. No attempt is to made to convert mucks to a command line module UNLESS all other avenues have been exploited.5. If muckshifter makes meritorious remarks regarding Linux they are to be ignored ... we can discuss this on another thread.6. You have 7 day to complete this mission.The goal is to ...1. Access the said drive2. format that drive to whatever is recommended by the majority3. To be able to use the said drive as a "test drive" for more Linux installs ... pushing that one aint I The 'Drive' is actually an IDE drive fitted into a USB caddy, has its own PSU and is connected to an external powered USB hub. Suse recognises the drive as;Name: BackUp (that is the "label" I gave it in Windows)Type: Mounted Removable MediumLocation: / (media)Owner: root - root (I own it but I wont argue with Suse at the moment)Permissions: drwxrwxrwx (an explanation of this will earn you extra brownie points) Base URL: File:///media/BackUpDevice Node: /dev/sdc1Free: 0Total: 0Used: 0Usage: 0Permissions Access Permissions: can view and modify content ... for; Owner, Group, Others.Advanced Permissions: all are X'ed except SpecialsOwnership: User = rootOwnership: Group = rootError message when you click on the drive: could not enter folder /media/BackUpCalculate: error as aboveRefresh: error as aboveI have read everything I can find, and I am now registered partially blind, I have looked at every conceivable 'tool' that Suse has, to no avail ... I do not mind one bit going back and using them again, practice makes perfect. I ask for your assistance. Please note:If you undertake this assignment be assured I will be forever in your debt but cannot off any remission for your help and participation in this 'project' ... you take ME on at your own risk.Ask any questions you like ... but PLEASE remember ... talk to the monkey first.I mean no disrespect to any monkeys that may be reading this post.Thank you for your time and any response you may give.Mucks.

Edited October 2, 2005 by muckshifter

[teacher]

Ah, such fun rules of engagement. I would take on this assignment but although I am in DC right now and have Suse on my trusty laptop, I failed to bring a USB device along for the ride. I think I will pass on this delightful offer and watch to see what happens. In the event you fail to attract someone, I will be home and on my computer again by tomorrow night (approximately 33 hours from now).

[muckshifter]

Hello Teacher,I thank you for your support ... greatly appreciated.I can, if you wish, extend the 'deadline' ... I have the time, but others may not. This is not a 'binding contract' but an attempt to induce some humour into the 'game' ... gotta watch out for your leagal system over there.

[réjean]

Hi muck!I won't take the assignment either because I don't have a USB external drive and right now I don't have a SuSE distro installed on my machine. I can offer you however a little reading that will explain the file permissions and the meaning of;Permissions: drwxrwxrwx (an explanation of this will earn you extra brownie points).P.S. I will not cash my brownie points right now. I will save them for when you become more versed into Linux linguo and you can help me in return instead.Good luck on your mission. We are all behing you ( from a SAFE distance. Of course!)P.P.S. Oops! I forgot the link; here and if you want to learn how to change the permissions go there. I could show you how to do it in graphic mode but you would have to reboot as Root and I don't think it's a good idea. Too risky for an Explorer like us.

Edited October 2, 2005 by réjean

[muckshifter]

Hello réjean,

- | rwx | r-x | r-x The first one tells you whether it is a file ( - ) a directory ( d ) or a link ( l ) The next three are for the "user" 'r'ead 'w'rite and e'x'ecute. The next three for the "group" and the last three for all "others"

]ahha, I got the first two right, wasn't sure on X ... easy when you know. so mine reads ... drive with read write execute for ALL groups. Now we need to tell the "drive" that, and let me in. Thank you and I'll keep the brownie points in a safe place for you.

[linuxdude32]

I've never done this so I'm as much of a monkey as you'd be, muck on this issue. I did do a seach and found this post, though:

Q:DB Wrote: Hi, I am having serious trouble trying to install linux on my new USB 2.0 hard drive (Hitachi 5K100 parallel ATA). I can't work out whether the problem is related to the fact that it is a USB hard drive, or whether it is because it is a parallel ATA drive. This may sound like an obscure question but this arrangement is very convenient for laptop users who do not want to mess around with their internal hard drive to install Linux. Any ideas? A:At first glance this seems like a good idea, but further thought and a bit of research I think that this is a bleeding edge tech head experiment for booting any operating system.

http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/qna/16025.htmlThere's a fair bit more at the link as to why this is complicated. Sometimes it's better to know stuff like this before you even try it. Not that it can't be done, but for a new Linux user, it may be like knocking your head against the wall. Actually, it'd probably be more like throwing your entire body against a wall.

[burninbush]

The 'Drive' is actually an IDE drive fitted into a USB caddy, has its own PSU and is connected to an external powered USB hub. smile.gif+++++++++++Yo, Mucks. You're a brave soul, but this is going to be very difficult as I understand what you are proposing. Do you intend to =boot= from this external usb disk? That's a biggie; will your bios allow that? Better check that first before going off to do a lot of work that may be doomed from the start. Even if your bios sez OK, then you may have difficulty partitioning and formatting a drive attached to a usb port. Even if you can do that, then will grub recognize a usb disk??? Even if grub does, will the Suse kernel boot from a usb disk??? Good luck with your endeavor. I personally hate usb external disks -- have not yet found one reliable enough to satisfy me, and on their best behavior they are much slower than a directly connected disk.

[Bruno]

Hi MucksThe problem is that I only know one way to change the ownership of "File:///media/BackUp" and that is on the commandline . . . ( no need to change permissions, only need to change ownership )The "drwxrwxrwx" would show on any directory representing Windows formatted partitions . . does not mean anything because Windows does not have the permission structure Linux has. Bruno

[ross549]

Hey Muckshifter......If you plug in the drive while it is powered on, doesn't an icon appear on the desktop?

[muckshifter]

ooh heck, Hello all ...Ok, well it goes to show how much I know ... better stick with the basics.Ross, I'll answer you first as that's an easy one for me ... No, not on the desktop, but yes, it pops-up in 'My Computer' ... it acts just as I would expect, but I can't access it.linuxdude, thank you for some more reading, I see the argument is well founded ... I won't go there, actually I don't think one could do it with that other OS either. Need to get more memory for the Brain.Bruno,Today ... you ... win. You do know it took me over an hour to write that 'chapter' ... Ok, all I am asking is ... how, in simple layman's terms, we get access to, and, be able to format this drive. Remember, start with words like ... "Open a Konsole" ... If I mess up I wont be angry at you, but at my own inability to follow your instruction, although we may have to go over something a couple of times. I do not have Windows, and still have NO inclination of returning to it ... Linux is doing everything I need a PC to do. Some of you may think I'm nuts, but what I have on my side is, plenty of time.Oh, nearly forgot ... my friend, LadyPCer (LP here) has helped me tremendously over the past few days, going out of her way to the point of actually installing Suse ... hehe, may have converted her though, as she quite likes it. Just needed to give her some praise. We both have working Floppies and I have an LS120 working also. thank you. Many thanks to all here.Mucks

[muckshifter]

The 'Drive' is actually an IDE drive fitted into a USB caddy, has its own PSU and is connected to an external powered USB hub. smile.gif+++++++++++Yo, Mucks. You're a brave soul, but this is going to be very difficult as I understand what you are proposing. Do you intend to =boot= from this external usb disk? That's a biggie; will your bios allow that? Better check that first before going off to do a lot of work that may be doomed from the start. Even if your bios sez OK, then you may have difficulty partitioning and formatting a drive attached to a usb port. Even if you can do that, then will grub recognize a usb disk??? Even if grub does, will the Suse kernel boot from a usb disk??? Good luck with your endeavor. I personally hate usb external disks -- have not yet found one reliable enough to satisfy me, and on their best behavior they are much slower than a directly connected disk.

oops, sorry burninbush, I missed your post, oppologies.Yes, that 'was' my intention ... to boot to a USB drive ... an abition too far we think. I'm learning, and you are amongst the helpers.

[naraku9333]

What file system if any is on the drive? Plug in the drive and post the last 20 or so lines of dmesg and the output of df -h.

[muckshifter]

The file system is NTFS ... kung hey fat choy, naraku, do-lay mofu hinow I hope you understand that and I apologise if you can ... but I did not understand your last bit. Please re-read this thread.

[Bruno]

Hey . . . Ho . . . Stop . . . . . . Mucks, now you are confusing me . . . what is it exactly you want ?1). Access the drive so you can see what is on it ?2). Format the drive so it is clean to move over files you want to store ?3). Partition the drive so you can install another distro on it ? Because, if it is "1)." we might need the commandline, if it is "2)." then you should be able to use the GUI . . . and if it is "3)." you might as well forget it because booting from an USB drive is only possible for "advanced users" and we will have to do so many commandline tweaks that you will need psychiatric help before we're half way :DB) Bruno

[muckshifter]

Hey . . . Ho . . . Stop . . . . . . Mucks, now you are confusing me . . . what is it exactly you want ?1). Access the drive so you can see what is on it ?2). Format the drive so it is clean to move over files you want to store ?3). Partition the drive so you can install another distro on it ? Because, if it is "1)." we might need the commandline, if it is "2)." then you should be able to use the GUI . . . and if it is "3)." you might as well forget it because booting from an USB drive is only possible for "advanced users" and we will have to do so many commandline tweaks that you will need psychiatric help before we're half way :DB) Bruno

If I'm confusing you ... then I'm dead in the water. Hello Bruno,No, you will be pleased to hear all I want to do is "Access the drive so you can see what is on it" and then Format it for Suse to play with. AND ... I have been practicing my Konsole skills. Thank you for you assistance.

[Bruno]

Good . . . . . . can you then open a Konsole and simply type

mount

Then copy the text and paste in in your next post . . . .NOTE: copy and paste is a bit less work in Linux then in Windows . . . you only have to select the text with your mouse, that will copy it to memory . . . then in your post you just press the middle button ( or wheel ) of your mouse to paste it. Bruno

[muckshifter]

Hmmm, too easy. mucks@linux:~> mount/dev/hda2 on / type reiserfs (rw,acl,user_xattr)proc on /proc type proc (rw)sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw)tmpfs on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw)devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw,mode=0620,gid=5)usbfs on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw)/dev/fd0 on /media/floppy type subfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,sync,fs=floppyfss,procuid)/dev/hdb on /media/floppy_1 type subfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,sync,fs=floppyfss,procuid)/dev/sdc1 on /media/BackUp type subfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,sync,fs=ntfs)mucks@linux:~>... flippin heck.

[Bruno]

Excellent . . . that shows us that the drive is actually mounted . . see this line

/dev/sdc1 on /media/BackUp type subfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,sync,fs=ntfs)

Okay now we look ( on the commandline ) what is on that drive

ls -al /media/BackUp

( That is LS -AL in small letters )Please again, show me the output. Bruno

[muckshifter]

oops ...mucks@linux:~> ls -al /media/BackUp/bin/ls: /media/BackUp: Permission deniedmucks@linux:~>flipping windose

[Bruno]

No problem . . . . now we try this:Type:

su

Hit the Enter-key and the screen will ask you for the root-password . . . type it ( you will not get any ***** or other feedback ) and hit the Enter-key again.Now you will see that where the prompt first ended on a ">" it now changes to ending with a "#" . . . this means that you successfully changed to "root" . . Congrats !Now we do the same command again:

ls -al /media/BackUp

Bruno

[muckshifter]

Don't see any $ ... but then I'm UK £ mucks@linux:~> suPassword:linux:/home/mucks # ls -al /media/BackUptotal 38742024dr-x------ 1 root root 4096 2005-09-23 09:49 .drwxr-xr-x 12 root root 336 2005-10-02 08:07 ..-r-------- 1 root root 39671825920 2005-09-23 09:49 backup.tibdr-x------ 1 root root 0 2005-09-22 14:57 System Volume Informationlinux:/home/mucks #hehe, we can get rid of that ".tib" ... it's an image of Windows.

[Bruno]

GREAT . . there is Windows . . . . . . now we've got it . . . . . first we log out as root by typing

exit

And the ">"will be back at the prompt showing you are not "root" anymore . . . And now comes the magic, start taking notes now: :DType:

kdesu konqueror

A pop-up will pop up and ask you for the root password again . . . then a few seconds later after you gave the password konqueror will pop up ( as root ) . . . now type in the addressbar:

file:/media/BackUp

And hit the Enter-key . . . . and as by magic you will see your files. Remember you are only "root" in that konqueror window :DB) BrunoPS: Sorry I was confused with the > and the $ and the # . . . . SUSE does things differently from other distros

[muckshifter]

Sorted ... nothing on the drive worth keeping All that 'panic' over a few commands. Do we do a format now?

[Bruno]

LOL . . . well that was a day worth living wasn't it ?? . . LOLOkay now you can re-partition and format that drive . . . . and using the GUI to do so . . . Just start YAST, look for the partition tool and find /dev/sdc . . .delete the partition(s) on it, make a new one(s) and format it either FAT ( so it can be read in Windows too ) or Ext3 ( then you only can read it in Linux ) Please no NTFS . . that is only trouble ;)The clock just told me it was midnight, so I am off to get a good nights sleep . . . . I will see you tomorrow if there are "other" or "new" problems ( we can partition and format on the commandline too . . . . . but I would try it in the GUI first ) Bruno

[muckshifter]

ah yes, the clock ... Sorry Bruno, forgot you're an hour ahead ... I don't need to worry about time.Thank you, that's too small a word, but I do appreciate all the time and effort you put in here.

[muckshifter]

oops Just to let you all know ... I broke it ... I did something wrong and broke Suse. However, as you can see I fixed it again ... Suse has a "repair" something or other, that I would call a "dirty install" and "fixed" everything for me. I'm off to bed ...

[Bruno]

LOL . . . hi Mucks . . . good morning ! :DI prepared some "homework" for you . . . . . . Back to our adventure with the USB drive . . . :DIn case the ( GUI ) YAST partition tool does not work ( only in that case !! ), here is what you could do on the commandline. ( step by step )First w have to check if /dev/sdc still is your USB drive, first open a konsole and type:( Please do not type the > and # signs, they are only there to show you if you are using the konsole as "root" or as "user" )

> su< password ># fdisk -l

Look at the output and check.Then we will change the partition table:

# fdisk /dev/sdc

You will see the text "Command (m for help):" . . . then press d. Then when it asks for a number ( of the partition to delete ) press the number 1 . . . now the partition is deleted Next we make a new partition press n and then a p ( for the primary partition ) It will suggest you the first cylinder just accept the default by hitting enter . . . then you choose the last cylinder.Next you press t to change the partitions id . . . . . it will ask for the number of the partition ( 1 ) then it will ask you for the Hex code for the "type" of partition, give it number 4 ( for FAT ). ( Or if you want it to be Linux native the number is 83 )Now . . . . . we will have a look at the partition table: press p, that will show it . . . then after you check the output and if all is okay press w this will write the partition table to disk and exit the fdisk tool . . . . ( but note, it will only take effect after you reboot !! )NOTE: the m will show the help menu at any timeNow . . after the reboot we only need to format the partition and change its reference in the fstab file . . . for this last one I need some info first, please give the command ( in a console )

> su< password ># mkfs -t vfat /dev/sdc1

( in case you did choose 83 for the type of partition in the instructions above, the command is "mkfs.ext3 /dev/sdc1" )And:

# cat /etc/fstab

And paste the output of this last command in your post.Have a nice day ! . . . I will see the results as I come home from work :DB) Bruno

[muckshifter]

"Homework" respectively declined. :oSorry Bruno, it took you nearly a week to convince me to use the command line ... and it was only after I had exhausted all other avenues and saw no alternative to my 'problem' that I sought your help ... you graciously accepted without hesitation. I thank you for that.My 'problem' was 'solved' until I chose to ignored a warning from YaST that ... I really should “un-mount” that drive before proceeding with any format ... for some silly reason, call it overconfidence after 'playing' around with the command line, heck I call it stupidity, but I duly pressed proceed. >_<All **** broke loose and NOTHING worked ... lesson learned, not going to repeat that one ... if the system says I need to do something first before proceeding, then I had better pay attention.All my confidence has been shattered, it will take me a little time to build it back up, and I was near to tears, sad huh. :'(Suse has a dam good “boot” disk, Windows should take a leaf out of the pages an offer the same 'tool' to rebuild your OS ... Chalk another point up Suse Linux.I have a working machine, nothing was lost (thankfully) and I have access to the 'backup', floppy and LS120 drives ... I'm happy at that for now.You may want to try me on something a little less 'destructive/dangerous' as unount mounting a Floppy disk drive ... as Novell say there is a 'bug' with Suse & KDE and we use a workaround to 'fix' it ... that would be good to try. Not sure that we can 'fix' what Novell haven't bothered to do itself though. Once again I thank you for your help & support.Respectfully yoursMucks

[muckshifter]

I NEED NEW READING GLASSED ... NO I'M NOT SHOUTING. mucks@linux:~> suPassword:su: incorrect passwordmucks@linux:~> suPassword:linux:/home/mucks # fdisk -1fdisk: invalid option -- 1Usage: fdisk [-b SSZ] [-u] DISK Change partition table fdisk -l [-b SSZ] [-u] DISK List partition table(s) fdisk -s PARTITION Give partition size(s) in blocks fdisk -v Give fdisk versionHere DISK is something like /dev/hdb or /dev/sdaand PARTITION is something like /dev/hda7-u: give Start and End in sector (instead of cylinder) units-b 2048: (for certain MO disks) use 2048-byte sectorslinux:/home/mucks #END OF HOMEWORK ... thats my lot. Coffee time.

[teacher]

Try using a -l (lower case L) rather than a number 1. Linux is not very forgiving of using look-alike letters. I learned early on to copy and paste from the forum for commands I did not know. Saved a lot of learning curve time. I believe the l stands for list. Then you will get an output that will allow you to continue with Bruno's commands.