69 replies to this topic

[FuzzButt]

My older (now my parents PC) Iwill BD100+ does this and it seems to be a video card issue.Reseating the cards helps for a while until someone messes with the PC again. As long as it is not disturbed it is ok. I would try this.Since you have XP now it is a bit more tolerant of you removing cards than 98 was or at least that is the case for me.I would write down everything in your PC on a sheet of paper. Where it is in the PC, How it plugs in and what PCI slot is is located in.  Now take out everything that is not really necessary. That CD would be first, sound card and your nic would be second. If you have a good Video card (GeForce 3 or better) then remove it and then put it back in making sure it is in the slot correctly and all the way. Screw it down. If you ahve an older video card maybe now is a good time to upgrade (Not always the best thing when trying to fix a strange issue but this is one thing that cannot be swapped out).If you can I would also run just your boot drive. Unplug the power connector at your disabled cd and hard drives. Also unplug your fans especially if they are plugged into the system board ports (except the Proc fan).You mentioned you have a new Power supply is it a quality unit? Antec, Enermax or PC Power & Cooling are the only ones I would trust when it comes to stability issues. Clean the dust out if the case while it is open. Leave the cover off. You should have just the main hard drive plugged in and your video card and your floppy drive. Put a floppy in the drive so Windows does not boot and then try to turn it on. If it is still not responding then you know the issue is left to one of the 6 remaining parts. Since you say this only happens over night it might take a few nights for you to narrow down the offending part. I would look at parts that make heat (get warm/hot) during operation. Good luckChris**my PC P&C 435W is running 6 hard drives (640GB), CDRW, DVD, 4 PCI Cards, GeForce 3 Ti200, Asus A7V333 and Athlon XP2000+ along with 7 case fans   **

[genegold]

FuzzButt, on May 5 2003, 10:51 PM, said:

Clean the dust out if the case while it is open. Leave the cover off. You should have just the main hard drive plugged in and your video card and your floppy drive. Put a floppy in the drive so Windows does not boot and then try to turn it on. If it is still not responding then you know the issue is left to one of the 6 remaining parts. Since you say this only happens over night it might take a few nights for you to narrow down the offending part. I would look at parts that make heat (get warm/hot) during operation.

Thanks for the suggestion. Sounds like a good idea for the first night, but after that I need the broadband, etc., so will have to work the other way, disconnecting one at a time, per another suggestion.  So far I know it's not the bad CD drive.  Fortunately, I have only one fan (CPU).  Thanks,

[genegold]

The only thing I've noticed as components are unplugged one a day is that with the first one disconnected (the problem CD drive), the HD red light changed from being off/on to having a light glow when not running.  Today, with the second HD disconnected (plus the CD), the bright red "on" isn't so bright (strong) anymore. Any significance to these?

[b2cm]

My suggestion is for you to disconnect the defective CD and the other disk. Then, if your CPU fan is sourcing power from the motherboard, you should connect it directly to one of the PS cables/connectors. The idea is give the motherboard enough power to start-up.

[genegold]

b2cm, on May 9 2003, 03:14 PM, said:

My suggestion is for you to disconnect the defective CD and the other disk. Then, if your CPU fan is sourcing power from the motherboard, you should connect it directly to one of the PS cables/connectors. The idea is give the motherboard enough power to start-up.

So far I've tried disconnecting everything except the main HD and the video card (pulled and reseated), without any change in startup behavior.  The CPU fan (only one on board) uses a connector that's smaller than anything coming from the PS.  I'm finding that startup takes up to about 15 powerups, but seems to happen more quickly when I leave the computer on for several minutes on one of the first tries.

[b2cm]

I suggested disconnecting the CD-ROM and the disk so you also can avoid other problems. As someone had pointed out, the malfunctioning devices are fire hazards. I say they will sooner or later break down---along with your data. As for the CPU fan, it might be disrupting and/or slowing down the proper distribution of power in the mainboard. This is why, as you have noticed yourself, the computer starts up more quickly when you leave it on for several minutes on one of the startup tries. As I understand it the motherboard is getting power from the PS (no problem with the PS, therefore). This is indicated by the LEDS that light up and the fan that spins when you power up, as these are powered through the mainboard. But the computer does not initialize, indicated by no POST and the flashing LED on your monitor (it means that the monitor is receiving power from its power cable, but no signal in its signal cable). This could be caused by many other things (busted processor, bad memory modules or badly seated ones, video cards, etc.), but the fact that the computer do initialize sooner or later suggests that the problem has to do with power supply and/or distribution on the mainboard.You can cut off that fan power cable connector, and connect the (2) wires to one of the PS power cables. Usually a PS power cable has 4 wires (yellow, black, black, red). Connect one of the fan power cable wire to the yellow (12-volt), and the other one to any of the blacks (ground). As an electrician, how to do that shouldn't be much of a problem to you.

[genegold]

This morning I disconnected the main HD and the machine started right up.  Reconnected, same old problem. Repeat.  Obviously, the HD.  But what might be the problem with the HD that keeps the computer from booting at all for anywhere from 2-15 tries?   However, just when it was looking simple... I disconnect the HD, reconnect the problem CD drive, change the boot order and put XP CD inside.  Play with that for a few minutes, before deciding not to install XP on the other HD for now.  Then shut down, reconnect the main HD and...it starts right up.  Well, if the HD is the problem, why would it start up after being disconnected -- luck or something else?  That's a question I want to check out a little more before running out and buying a new HD.In the meantime, I have a related question about setting up the boot order.  How do I get the BIOS setup program to change primary and secondary masters and slaves?  I don't see any choices in that regard under regular or advanced settings.  I've been disconnecting power cables, but not data cables.  Is the latter required?  For example, altho I had my problem CD drive power cable disconnected (but not the data cable), setup wouldn't give up that drive as secondary master, so the good CD drive (secondary slave) could be used for startup.  Thanks,Gene

[GolfProRM]

genegold, on May 14 2003, 11:13 AM, said:

In the meantime, I have a related question about setting up the boot order.  How do I get the BIOS setup program to change primary and secondary masters and slaves?  I don't see any choices in that regard under regular or advanced settings.  I've been disconnecting power cables, but not data cables.  Is the latter required?  For example, altho I had my problem CD drive power cable disconnected (but not the data cable), setup wouldn't give up that drive as secondary master, so the good CD drive (secondary slave) could be used for startup.  Thanks,Gene

Primary/Secondary is set by which slot you connect the IDE cord to on the motherboard...  One should be a different color or labeled Primary/IDE0 or something to that effect...  The other IDE slot is your Secondary...Master/Slave are set by Jumpers on the back of each drive...  It should tell you somewhere on the drive where to set the little jumper to get master or slave...  There's probably also a set for solo drive...  (use this if you only have one device connected to the individual IDE cable).  Hope this makes sense...  P.S.  Each cable has two connections, one for master and one for slave...  make sure you only have one master and one slave connected to each cable

[b2cm]

Gene,Your motherboard has two IDE channel interface (IDE1 or Primary and IDE2 or Secondary), each able to support 2 IDE devices (Master and Slave). To change the status of your IDE devices as Primary to Secondary, vice versa, just transfer the cable ribbon connectors to the other IDE channel interface. Then go to BIOS setup, have the IDE devices detected (or just set these to AUTO detection) and restart. Also check the status of your IDE devices. On an IDE channel, there should only be one IDE device set as Master. An IDE device will have JUMPERS or SWITCHES that are used to set the IDE device as Master or Slave. It is set manually. At the least, there should be three settings: Master or MA, Slave or SL,and Cable Select or CS. Each setting will have a pair/s of pins that must be shorted to be set. A CS setting will set the IDE device connected to the connector in the middle of the ribbon cable as SLAVE, and the IDE device connected to one of the ends of the ribbon cable as MASTER.

[genegold]

I'm grateful for the help I've received here, but before I run and out buy a hard drive, I'm puzzled by something and would like to understand it better.  That is, why the  1)computer won't start normally with HD0 connected; that is, go thru BIOS, memory, etc., w/o many tries  2)will do those things with HDO disconnected first try  3)will do those things with HDO reconnected after the first tryAny ideas?  Thanks,Gene

[nlinecomputers]

genegold, on May 16 2003, 06:54 PM, said:

I'm grateful for the help I've received here, but before I run and out buy a hard drive, I'm puzzled by something and would like to understand it better.  That is, why the  1)computer won't start normally with HD0 connected; that is, go thru BIOS, memory, etc., w/o many tries  2)will do those things with HDO disconnected first try  3)will do those things with HDO reconnected after the first tryAny ideas?  Thanks,Gene

Interesting!  By connected are you refering to the power connector, the data connector, or both?Have you tried to put this drive on your secondary controller and boot with it.  Most motherboards now can boot from either the primary or the secondary contoller.If the problem goes away then you know that you got a problem with the primary controller.  Also if you can use a new IDE ribbon cable try that as well.

[genegold]

nlinecomputers, on May 16 2003, 09:48 PM, said:

Interesting!  By connected are you refering to the power connector, the data connector, or both?Have you tried to put this drive on your secondary controller and boot with it.  Most motherboards now can boot from either the primary or the secondary contoller.If the problem goes away then you know that you got a problem with the primary controller.  Also if you can use a new IDE ribbon cable try that as well.

Referring to connecting/disconnecting power connectors.  Good ideas to try.

[GooRu]

I'll bet when you turn the PC on it's side to "jiggle the connectors", you unplug the AC power cord.  I'd also bet if all you did was unplug the AC power cord, count to 30, then plug it back in, the computer would boot.My guess it that the power supply is suffering a transient that "crowbars" the 12 volt line (hence, no hard drive spin up).  Since the current "soft off" power supplies are never really "off", you have to unplug the cord to reset the supply.Bottom line, replace the supply.  They are not all that expensive, and you may want to replace it with a more powerful unit (more "watts").

[genegold]

GooRu, on May 17 2003, 12:29 AM, said:

I'll bet when you turn the PC on it's side to "jiggle the connectors", you unplug the AC power cord.  I'd also bet if all you did was unplug the AC power cord, count to 30, then plug it back in, the computer would boot.My guess it that the power supply is suffering a transient that "crowbars" the 12 volt line (hence, no hard drive spin up).  Since the current "soft off" power supplies are never really "off", you have to unplug the cord to reset the supply.Bottom line, replace the supply.  They are not all that expensive, and you may want to replace it with a more powerful unit (more "watts").

This has been a long thread....  Good hypothesis, but been there, done that already -- no change.  I neglected to reiterate that this problem only occurs after the computer has been off for several hours, like overnight.One thing about your suggestion that rings a bell, tho, is that this morning it wasn't until I unplugged the computer power cord between after an initial try, that step 2 worked (see a couple of messages back).  Normally, I do that (and ground a screw driver) automatically when disconnecting something, but I forgot. However, this time it took several tries to get to step three.  Perhaps that's because I ended step 2 quickly, without allowing a full boot cycle.  To be continued...

[genegold]

GooRu, on May 17 2003, 12:29 AM, said:

I'll bet when you turn the PC on it's side to "jiggle the connectors", you unplug the AC power cord.  I'd also bet if all you did was unplug the AC power cord, count to 30, then plug it back in, the computer would boot.My guess it that the power supply is suffering a transient that "crowbars" the 12 volt line (hence, no hard drive spin up).  Since the current "soft off" power supplies are never really "off", you have to unplug the cord to reset the supply.Bottom line, replace the supply.  They are not all that expensive, and you may want to replace it with a more powerful unit (more "watts").

This has been a long thread....  Good hypothesis, but been there, done that already -- unfortunately, no change.  I neglected to reiterate that this problem only occurs after the computer has been off for several hours, like overnight.One thing about your suggestion that rings a bell, tho, is that this morning it wasn't until I unplugged the computer power cord between after an initial try, that step 2 worked (see a couple of messages back).  Normally, I do that (and ground a screw driver) automatically when disconnecting something, but I forgot. However, this time it took several tries to get to step three.  Perhaps that's because I ended step 2 quickly, without allowing a full boot cycle.  To be continued...

[genegold]

Well, back to square 1.  The only thing that seems to effect the number of startup tries is leaving the computer on going nowhere for a few minutes.  Then it seems more likely to boot within a try or two after that.  Seems...

[genegold]

a final chapter to this saga...  The computer finally stopped booting no matter how many powerups, so I took it to the shop and they said motherboard.  I should have guessed and saved the money. Replaced it myself, but now it wouldn't power up at all (no fan).  Back to the (very good) parts store and sure enough the power supply was not right.  Changed to a Sparkle 300 and up it went.  Makes me wonder if the CompUSA 300w supply wasn't quite cutting it on the original KT133 board, which led to the latter's premature death, and then really went kaput when faced with a KT400 board and faster processor (unless the repair shop fried it; I didn't check first).  Now, if I could only get the new WD HD to install...  Thanks to all for your patient help.Gene

[b2cm]

If you still have the motherboard the shop said was busted, try powering it up again. Just lay it on the table (with the processor and fan installed), connect the powersupply, monitor and keyboard to it, and then short the power switch jumpers. If nothing happens, press the POWER key on the keyboard for 5 seconds or more, and if nothing still happens, press the same key consecutively.

[continuum]

If all else fails, try to replace your RAM one stick at a time. It may be a faulty stick that needs a jump start each time.

[Temmu]

welcome, continuum!hope to see you around!