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Final thoughts on Windows 8: A design disaster - ZDNet Hardware 2.0

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#26 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:17 AM

Remember the uproar(s) in the Linux community over the introduction of KDE 4.X, Unity, Gnome 3.X? Yet Linux users have great abilities to delay, avoid, or customize these changed interfaces as they see fit.
On the other hand the vast majority of PC users are just told to "deal with it" and learn how to use an interface they may not like or see any need to have. Sad really.
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#27 OFFLINE   ichase

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 11:20 AM

The mobile touch screen IS the future.  We now live in a mobile world where convenience is great.  Even the DoD  (Department of Defense) is wanting and starting to get touch screen technology.

As Adam stated, you will be able to continue using Win7 for a very long time.  NMCI (Navy and Marine Corp Intranet) is the biggest network in the world and is still using XP which has been a driven force in MS keeping support for XP as long as it has.  FY 13, NMCI is going to start phasing in Windows 7 and slowly moving away from XP.  So I have no doubt support for Windows 7 will be as long if not longer then the support that was given to XP unless another technology completely takes it's place which would not surprise me as fast as technology is moving.  ;)
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#28 OFFLINE   LilBambi

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 11:54 AM

I don't think any of us are questioning that touchscreens are the future, but that Microsoft is jumping the gun.
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#29 OFFLINE   ross549

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Posted 16 June 2012 - 01:01 PM

View Postichase, on 16 June 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

As Adam stated, you will be able to continue using Win7 for a very long time.  NMCI (Navy and Marine Corp Intranet) is the biggest network in the world and is still using XP which has been a driven force in MS keeping support for XP as long as it has.  FY 13, NMCI is going to start phasing in Windows 7 and slowly moving away from XP.  So I have no doubt support for Windows 7 will be as long if not longer then the support that was given to XP unless another technology completely takes it's place which would not surprise me as fast as technology is moving.  ;)

We just got our Win7 machines this last week. So far, no major issues.

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#30 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 04:36 PM

so, ross549, how do you like win 7?
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#31 OFFLINE   ross549

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 06:14 PM

It is not bad. We had only a few hiccups during the changeover. So far, the systems work fine. We only have a couple that have somewhat dodgy ethernet ports, which knocks the machines off line every once in a while.

I've had to change a few habits, but I have been able to customize the desktop to my liking pretty well.

All my programs were on the new machine too. The only thing I needed to have added was Adobe Acrobat Pro.

IE8 is a dramatic improvement over IE7. This is a good thing since Facebook was horribly broken on IE7.

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#32 OFFLINE   crp

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 06:54 PM

View Postross549, on 19 June 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

[...]
I've had to change a few habits, but I have been able to customize the desktop to my liking pretty well.
get DeskTopOK or SMIR , and save your desktop settings. W7 does have a nasty habit of redoing the desktop.

View Postross549 said:

All my programs were on the new machine too. The only thing I needed to have added was Adobe Acrobat Pro.
Not sure what you mean by this. You transferred your programs from your old pc, or new versions of the programs you had were installed. Are you running 32 or 64 bit?

View Postross549 said:

IE8 is a dramatic improvement over IE7. [...]
try out IE9
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. ~C. S. Lewis

#33 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 08:56 PM

As long as my old desktop lasts, XP is supported, and I can keep running more up to date non-MSoft software (Firefox, Chrome, Thunderbird, Open Office) I think I can keep my wife happy. The old desktop was very powerful when new  (Pentium D dual core 840, 3 GB RAM) so it's overkill to run XP. I doubt I'd get much better performance with a brand new system on Win 7.
If she gets frustrated there are lots of Linux machines that fly around here.
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#34 OFFLINE   ross549

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 05:06 AM

View Postcrp, on 19 June 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

get DeskTopOK or SMIR , and save your desktop settings. W7 does have a nasty habit of redoing the desktop.

I do not have the ability to manage my own software. I cannot install programs.

Quote

Not sure what you mean by this. You transferred your programs from your old pc, or new versions of the programs you had were installed. Are you running 32 or 64 bit?

The PC is provided to me with all the necessary stuff on it. So far I have not needed to request anything special to be added to it, except Acrobat.

I am just a user on this network at work.

http://en.wikipedia...._Corps_Intranet

I don't think I would want to be a system administrator on this network. However, i can manage our e-mail groups for the command and admin a couple folders on the network drive. Everything else is provided by NMCI.

Adam
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#35 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 08:00 AM

Ah the joys of corporate Intranets. Our Unilever one was locked down pretty tight. My colleague got an upgrade to IE because the standard one wouldn't work on our office supplies provider's website. When I retired at the end of 2004 we  were still running NT4. My desktop was a 500 MHz Pentium III (and that was a recent upgrade for me.)
I got "power user" privileges. That meant I could add different network printers and change print settings lol.
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#36 OFFLINE   crp

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 03:19 PM

View Postross549, on 20 June 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

I do not have the ability to manage my own software. I cannot install programs.
[...]
:hmm: how much are you willing to risk? the programs do not get installed, they are portables. be interesting to see if you could get them to run.

Edited by crp, 20 June 2012 - 03:20 PM.

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. ~C. S. Lewis

#37 OFFLINE   ross549

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 05:57 PM

I don't need to have my access revoked. ;)

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#38 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 09:44 AM

:lol: indeed so!
boss:  so, how's that project coming along?
you: um... they won't let me log on to my pc for some reason...
:D
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#39 OFFLINE   crp

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 06:07 PM

oh, come on, just stick an Ultimate Boot CD in there :-)

Edited by crp, 22 June 2012 - 06:09 PM.

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. ~C. S. Lewis

#40 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 08:05 PM

Look at the hoops a big Microsoft supporter jumped through to get Windows 8 the way he liked it.
http://www.zdnet.com...le_skin;content
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#41 OFFLINE   crp

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 09:15 PM

View Postraymac46, on 01 July 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Look at the hoops a big Microsoft supporter jumped through to get Windows 8 the way he liked it.
http://www.zdnet.com...le_skin;content
IIRC, not all the steps work with the Release Candidate. At this point , no one knows what customizations will be possible with the final release.
But I do love the WordStar comment :clap:
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. ~C. S. Lewis

#42 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:57 AM

I'm sure we'll see a similar number of hacks posted when the final release appears. It doesn't sound as if Microsoft is going to make it easy to lose the Metro look and feel.
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#43 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:55 PM

but aren't there 2 choices when you install win 8?

metro-crapified
semi-normal windows

at least that's what i've been reading...
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#44 OFFLINE   crp

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 03:41 PM

This list is pretty good, i thought. I would modify it a bit by having an option to start up with the Desktop mode or Metro UI as the default screen available for the user. The MetroUI can somewhat work ok on a desktop in the keyboard had a touchpad on it, so having an option of where to start would be good.
The 'start orb' is really a  non-issue , just give me a way to scroll through the items in a list instead of sliding from screen to screen.
I really think have viewable edges would be good, this would really cut down on confusion. give users option to turn off the edges if they don't need it.
The different versions of IE is just plain silly to me.
Give the option in MetroUI to not take up the full screen when running an app.

And for Microsoft employees who happen to reading this, remember the old adage:
    If everyone is telling you that you are drunk, lay down.
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. ~C. S. Lewis

#45 OFFLINE   LilBambi

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 10:18 AM

Yes, Adrian's list is pretty darn good. An excellent start. Like you crp, I would also modify it a bit but not much. I think a login screen with a Choose Session Type, or Choose Metro or Desktop Type, available during Login like in Linux (particularly Debian) would be a wise thing. Choosing a default could be handled there as well. Last Session Type as the default option under Choose Session Type at Login

I certainly agree with this statement by Adrian regarding if Microsoft doesn't fix Windows 8 to be a more versatile OS:

Quote

Enterprise will continue to demand Windows 7, because to roll out Windows 8 'properly' the costs will rocket due to mass purchase of touch-enabled hardware and additional user interface training

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#46 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 09:32 PM

I've got most of those improvements already by getting a new desktop with Win 7 Pro. Start Orb - check. Start Menu - check. Boot to Windows Desktop - check. Windows RT - would never use. IE integration - don't care. I'll even get my low priced Win 8 Pro for Virtual Box. :thumbup:
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#47 OFFLINE   LilBambi

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 01:56 AM

There ya go raymac! :thumbup:
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#48 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 11:18 PM

i hope to have a date for us on when the last pcs will be sold w/win 7.

stay tuned, same bat-time, same bat-channel.
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#49 OFFLINE   LilBambi

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 09:57 AM

How to skip Windows 8 and continue using Windows 7 - ZDNet - Ed Bott

Quote

At the moment, Microsoft is supporting four releases of desktop Windows. For reference, here are the end-of-support dates for all currently supported Windows versions:
  • Windows XP SP3: April 8, 2014
  • Windows Vista SP2: April 11, 2017
  • Windows 7 SP1: January 14, 2020
  • Windows 8: January 10, 2023
(In case you're wondering, yes, Microsoft has a formal definition of "supported.")

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#50 OFFLINE   ross549

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Posted 28 July 2012 - 12:44 PM

Those are some impressive support lifecycles, but there is a big problem with that length of support.

Many will simply not upgrade forcing Microsoft to continue dedicating resources to supporting the very old and outdated product instead of focusing on the new product. This has the secondary effect of keeping prices up for the new products.

Also, projects *cough*IE 6*cough* tend to stagnate as a result, and slowing the pace of innovation.

Adam
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