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Final thoughts on Windows 8: A design disaster - ZDNet Hardware 2.0

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#1 OFFLINE   LilBambi

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 01:57 PM

Final thoughts on Windows 8: A design disaster - ZDNet Hardware 2.0 by Adrian Kingsley-Hughes

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Summary: The biggest problem with Windows 8 is that it wasn’t born out of a need or demand. Its design failures, particularly with ‘Metro UI’ will likely be its downfall. Here’s why.

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#2 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 06:44 PM

I think MS is betting on the end of the desktop/standard laptop era a bit too soon.
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#3 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 01:51 AM

View PostV.T. Eric Layton, on 08 June 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

I think MS is betting on the end of the desktop/standard laptop era a bit too soon.

Looking at their design, they would almost have to be abandoning the normal desktop/laptop devices. The whole panel UI  is pretty much made for a touch interface as it does not even make any sense with a keyboard/mouse input setup.

IMHO, they are making a fatal mistake by releasing a mainly touch-based interface but who knows what they are thinking......
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#4 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 02:29 AM

I do not understand why the Windows developers thought that doing a complete touch-based redesign would be beneficial to their users considering they get a lot their revenue from corporate per-seat licensing fees on desktop and laptops. The metro interface is not meant for this type of platform so why would they try to push this interface on their corporate users? I say corporate users because that is where the majority of business is based upon.

This is either completely ignorant on their part or maybe they know something I do not :ermm:
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"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#5 OFFLINE   goretsky

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 04:45 AM

Hello,

I think what they are trying to, quite-simply, is to out-Apple Apple.

Unfortunately for Microsoft, a large part of how that is going to be perceived is going to rely on the shoulders of their hardware ecosystem partners.  We'll see how it works out.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky
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#6 OFFLINE   ross549

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 11:56 AM

Yes, Microsoft is going all-in on touch interfaces. Is this a good thing?

Well, folks are going to fight it tooth and nail. However, if Microsoft gave everyone a choice, just about all would use the desktop interface, and development in the Metro interface would all but die out completely. People resist change (see many posts here, for example), so few would willingly switch over.

Even more important is the developers. If they stay have the choice to develop under the desktop vice Metro, what's going to happen? They will continue to add more and more complicated features, more button and UI garbage (UI is the most important thing these days, right?), making the software more and more complicated to use. If you don't think users want this, look at the phenomenal sales Apple continues to see with the iPad. Even OSX is too complicated. Users want a simplified core functionality with apps that are intuitively designed.

What Microsoft should do is have two OSs concurrently available, supporting a desktop OS for quite a few years. Then they should also have Windows Metro still available. Support both for the next decade, and finally drop the desktop OS.

Actually, I think Microsoft is doing this. Windows 7 will be available for a long time alongside Windows 8. YOU HAVE THE CHOICE.You can put Windows 7 on a PC, and you'll be able to do so for a long time.  

Microsoft is doing the right thing. ;)

Adam
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#7 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 02:33 PM

I agree with Adam that the choice will still be there for some time. If you're using XP you'll still have 2 more years of support, and after that I bet Windows 7 will still be available as a downgrade - or certainly on a used commercial grade "off lease" PC. Then at least 6 more years of support (or more) with Windows 7. Not to mention Linux as an option where choice abounds.
By 2020 or so we'll know if the Metro interface is the way of the future or a Vista-esque failure, and Microsoft will have had time to enhance or fix it for the next release of Windows.
If you can survive Gnome 3 Shell, I don't see anything that should worry you about Metro.
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#8 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 02:54 PM

View Postraymac46, on 09 June 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

If you can survive Gnome 3 Shell, I don't see anything that should worry you about Metro.

Good point, hence why I do not use gnome shell or windows :hysterical:

B)
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#9 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 07:24 PM

Looks like the two big bullies on the block are battling it out. Us little guys (Linux users) just need to stay out of the line of fire. ;)
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#10 OFFLINE   ross549

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 09:15 PM

There's a good thing about competition..... better products in the long run. :)

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#11 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 11:21 AM

Here's another article of interest.

http://mobileopportu...-windows-8.html
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#12 OFFLINE   ross549

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 04:28 PM

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The simplicity of Metro is very appealing in many ways, especially when viewed against Apple's interface, which is becoming more and more encrusted with strange textures and bits of faux 3D gewgaw.

:D :D :D

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Metro is one of the most anti-skeuomorphic interface designs I've seen, which makes it a worthy counterpoint to Apple.


Some decent analysis there.....

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#13 OFFLINE   LilBambi

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 07:09 PM

Even Apple did a mod between touch or at least the app look to things rather than forcing people into an uncomfortable zone on the Desktop.

They better keep Windows 7 available for a good long time. And NOT remove it from the shelves and OEMs for a good long time.
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#14 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:50 AM

At times I am tempted to replace my old Dell Optiplex GX620 XP Pro desktop (now getting close to 7 years old) with a new Windows 7 machine - before the advent of Windows 8. There are some pretty good deals out there right now on Sandy Bridge as Ivy Bridge starts to arrive. Even better deals on AMD A8 Fusion but I don't know how Linux friendly that'll be in the long run.
However I do have a pretty good Windows 7 notebook I could use to replace the older machine if needed. All I would need is a USB hub to hookup the printer keyboard and mouse. The netbook has dedicated graphics and HDMI.
In a couple of years there will be even better deals on off lease desktops - that is how I got my current Dell Optiplex - and these will run Windows 7 Pro no doubt. That is my longer term goal if the desktop keeps going with XP and dual booting Linux. My wife mainly uses it for web surfing, email, and a bit of Open Office work and she's happy with it for now. I've got the desktop looking like Windows 2000 so it's not like either of us need cutting edge graphics.
Current off lease stuff around here features Core 2 Duos from 2008-2009. Windows 7 is available for them.

Edited by raymac46, 11 June 2012 - 02:33 PM.

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#15 OFFLINE   zlim

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:48 AM

I'm going to be looking at Win 7 deals to future proof my husband. He can't seem to part with the old, free, 2K all-in-one computer. I have a perfectly good , also free, Dell running XP attached by a KVM switch. He only fires the Dell up when he wants to use the HP AIO attached to that cpmputer for the scan or copy feature. By the time he moves over to the XP computer, MS will stop supporting XP!
I might get him a laptop and as raymac suggested, attach a larger monitor, keyboard and mouse.
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#16 OFFLINE   LilBambi

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:55 AM

Great idea! :yes:
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#17 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 12:35 PM

Another article speaking of Metro's downfalls:

ReadWriteWeb: How Windows 8 Throws Computer Users Under the Bus
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#18 OFFLINE   crp

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 01:07 PM

View Postraymac46, on 11 June 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

At times I am tempted to replace my old Dell Optiplex GX620 XP Pro desktop (now getting close to 7 years old) with a new Windows 7 machine - before the advent of Windows 8. There are some pretty good deals out there right now on Sandy Bridge as Ivy Bridge starts to arrive. Even better deals on AMD A8 Fusion but I don't know how Linux friendly that'll be in the long run.
However I do have a pretty good Windows 7 notebook I could use to replace the older machine if needed. All I would need is a USB hub to hook the printer keyboard and mouse. The netbook has dedicated graphics and HDMI.
In a couple of years there will be even better deals on off lease desktops - that is how I got my current Dell Optiplex - and these will run Windows 7 Pro no doubt. That is my longer term goal if the desktop keeps going with XP and dual booting Linux. My wife mainly uses it for web surfing, email, and a bit of Open Office work and she's happy with it for now. I've got the desktop looking like Windows 2000 so it's not like either of us need cutting edge graphics.
Current off lease stuff around here features Core 2 Duos from 2008-2009. Windows 7 is available for them.
At work I have a netbook attached to a USB hub , regular keyboard, regular mouse and 23" monitor. works just fine for me and gives me the capability to move around when i need to. just don't forget a lock.
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#19 OFFLINE   lewmur

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:46 PM

View Postross549, on 09 June 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Microsoft is doing the right thing. ;)

Adam
Adam;
This isn't meant as a flame.  You are perfectly entitled to your opinion.  But I can't recall the last time MS did anything you thought was "wrong".  When you always "stick up" for them, no matter what they do, it tends to dilute your arguments.

My own opinion on Metro?  I'm probably one of the few people who has a full desktop computer with a touch screen.  I have an HP TouchSmart with a 23" screen sitting next to me right now.  (in addtion to the Linux sytem with  40" and 22" monitors on the other.)  I installed the Win8 consumer preview on it and it lasted a couple of days.  I can see a touch based system for portable use, but why anyone would prefer it on a desktop system is beyond my comprehension.

Edited by lewmur, 11 June 2012 - 02:55 PM.


#20 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:55 PM

I remember hearing a talk given by a cyber-psychologist on how it only takes about a millisecond for us to decide we don't like a particular website design. Apparently decisions of this type are taken in the amygdala, or "lizard brain" we humans have featured for a million years or so.
I guess the lizard brains of a lot of IT execs have been working overtime because it seems it only takes a glimpse of the Metro interface on a big screen to send them round the bend. The thought of retraining a thousand users triggers the flight response I guess.  :teehee:
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#21 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 03:15 PM

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He can't seem to part with the old, free, 2K all-in-one computer. I have a perfectly good , also free, Dell running XP attached by a KVM switch.

It's posts like this that encourage me to keep on with XP on my old Dell Optiplex from 2005. It's not like I can't run a state of the art O/S if I really want to. I just fire up one of my many Linux boxes. :thumbsup:

Edited by raymac46, 11 June 2012 - 03:19 PM.

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#22 OFFLINE   ross549

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:07 PM

View Postlewmur, on 11 June 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

Adam;
This isn't meant as a flame.  You are perfectly entitled to your opinion.  But I can't recall the last time MS did anything you thought was "wrong".  When you always "stick up" for them, no matter what they do, it tends to dilute your arguments.

Wow. I have never been considered a Microsoft defender before. Probably the reason you can't recall me thinking Microsoft did anything wrong is because I have not posted in All Things WIndows much at all. The makeup of my computers should be able to tell the story- 1 MacBook Pro and two other laptops running Ubuntu. I am not a fan of Windows, and I doubt I ever will be.

My defense of Microsoft in recent weeks stems from my belief that Microsoft moving to a touch-oriented interface like Metro is the right way to go. I also think the way they are going about it is the right thing to do.

I have never really been a Microsoft fan. I liked Windows 2000, hated windows ME, and tolerate Windows XP. In the next week, I will be migrated to WIndows 7 at work, and I am not looking forward to it. I do not like the Vista/7 desktop interface at all, but I will have to learn its intricacies, I suppose.

I think Microsoft has lost their way in the market in the past few years. They have abused their near-monopoly power too much in the past, and in some ways they still do. However, good things happen when competition (Apple and linux) appear on the scene. Apple is finally forcing Microsoft to innovate in the OS market. This I see as good.

Adam
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#23 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:56 PM

View Postsecuritybreach, on 11 June 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

Another article speaking of Metro's downfalls:

ReadWriteWeb: How Windows 8 Throws Computer Users Under the Bus
yup. good read, securitybreach.

View Postlewmur, on 11 June 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

I can see a touch based system for portable use, but why anyone would prefer it on a desktop system is beyond my comprehension.
100% concur, lewmur!

View Postross549, on 11 June 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

I think Microsoft has lost their way in the market in the past few years. They have abused their near-monopoly power too much in the past, and in some ways they still do. However, good things happen when competition (Apple and linux) appear on the scene. Apple is finally forcing Microsoft to innovate in the OS market. This I see as good.
agree here too, adam!


as i've said before, cannot imagine what ms was thinking when they pulled this stunt.
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#24 OFFLINE   crp

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 02:42 AM

View Postross549, on 11 June 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

[...]
My defense of Microsoft in recent weeks stems from my belief that Microsoft moving to a touch-oriented interface like Metro is the right way to go. I also think the way they are going about it is the right thing to do.
The argument/disagreement is that it is not the right thing to do for desktops and content creators.

View Postross549, on 11 June 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

[...] In the next week, I will be migrated to WIndows 7 at work, and I am not looking forward to it. I do not like the Vista/7 desktop interface at all, but I will have to learn its intricacies, I suppose. Adam
the File Explorer changes are going to drive you nuts. as well as the pathetic search. else, you'll come to appreciate the lack of crashing and how the vast majority of OS things can get done quicker.
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#25 OFFLINE   ross549

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 05:01 AM

View Postcrp, on 12 June 2012 - 02:42 AM, said:

The argument/disagreement is that it is not the right thing to do for desktops and content creators.

At this point, yes. However, as the touch interfaces evolve, the application software will evolve right along with it. I think we will start to see Metro style content creation applications soon enough. My primary point is that the developers need to be pushed into making this change, or else Microsoft is going to find Windows becoming less and less popular over time. Developers are not going to change the overall UI of their software unless they are "forced" to do so.

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the File Explorer changes are going to drive you nuts. as well as the pathetic search. else, you'll come to appreciate the lack of crashing and how the vast majority of OS things can get done quicker.

I mainly look forward to using IE8. We are on 7 now, and I cannot install another browser on my work desktop. IE 7 is painful to use, and cannot handle many websites.

Adam
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