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Vista be ******


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#1 OFFLINE   Specmon

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Posted 25 December 2006 - 08:45 PM

This is a long read, very well thought out by someone that had no previous axe to grind. A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection The Vista security spec is described as "the longest suicide note in history"Merry Christmas.   See you all in Hades  :)  :P Specmon

#2 OFFLINE   epp_b

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Posted 25 December 2006 - 09:14 PM

That is always a sidebar of something that has always bothered me about DRM (other than the obvious scam that it is): performance.  How much better performance could I be getting out of my hardware if it wasn't working on the side to "protect" my own things against me?  And how much effort and energy is wasted on "features" that work their hardest to let the media industry screw me over?! :angry:And also cost!  How much expensive engineering is going into "features" that no one could conceivably want?  How much extra am I paying for hardware that will turn itself against me?! :P

Edited by epp_b, 25 December 2006 - 09:15 PM.


#3 OFFLINE   patio

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Posted 25 December 2006 - 09:52 PM

Looks like i'm gonna be a very happy Win2K user for years to come...patio.  B)

#4 OFFLINE   Specmon

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Posted 25 December 2006 - 10:06 PM

Well, I plan to use WinXp and Linux until WinXp is obsolete, then strictly Linux.But why should I have to pay extra for hardware designed to accomodate Vista when I will NEVER buy into it?  I hope the hardware manufactures are not as stupid as MS thinks "we" are.This is a very sad state of affairs. :angry:  B)

#5 OFFLINE   Gary

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Posted 25 December 2006 - 10:11 PM

Some More Great News About Vista

#6 OFFLINE   Specmon

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Posted 25 December 2006 - 10:27 PM

Hey Gary,While that is interesting and not unexpected, those kinds of flaws will get fixed and the world will move on.  But the underlying philosophy of Vista will remain unchanged: that we users can't be trusted with our own machines, our own data, and the "stuff" that we legitimitely purchase honestly with our hard won currency.Vista is a complete disaster, a complete surrender to monied corporate interests and several steps past the "event horizon" of things that let neo-conservatives sleep well at night.Might as well have been written by Tom Delay for use on K-Street instead of yours and my living rooms. B)  :angry:

#7 OFFLINE   epp_b

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Posted 25 December 2006 - 10:56 PM

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Well, I plan to use WinXp and Linux until WinXp is obsolete, then strictly Linux.
I hope I can do the same...the only thing holding me back is lack of applications for my needs B)

#8 OFFLINE   Specmon

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Posted 25 December 2006 - 11:42 PM

What really ticks me off is that I can't be true to my principles here.  :D Like others here have said, I'll have to be familar with Vista (i.e. "use it" to some extent)because many of my customers will be using it and will need support.  :wacko: Things in life are never black or white, are they?  B) Maybe I can offer free pcLOS installs?  :angry: Every revolution requires sacrifices!   :w00t:

#9 OFFLINE   epp_b

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 01:02 AM

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Maybe I can offer free pcLOS installs?
I'll be trying to get my grandparents on Ubuntu when they buy a computer in the new year B)

#10 OFFLINE   greengeek

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 03:56 AM

Since I retired I refuse to fix Windows machines, they either have Linux installed or take the pcs elsewhere.  Now there are about nine new Linux users out there!

#11 OFFLINE   striker

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 05:30 AM

Since two years ago I don't accept any windows machine for repairing or maintenance.It's linux here or nothing. It's that simple. B)  (but to be honest I don't have to live from repairing/maintaining business, so it was an easy move.)
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still the same...

#12 OFFLINE   Gary

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 08:10 AM

View PostSpecmon, on Dec 25 2006, 09:27 PM, said:

Hey Gary,While that is interesting and not unexpected, those kinds of flaws will get fixed and the world will move on.  But the underlying philosophy of Vista will remain unchanged: that we users can't be trusted with our own machines, our own data, and the "stuff" that we legitimitely purchase honestly with our hard won currency.Vista is a complete disaster, a complete surrender to monied corporate interests and several steps past the "event horizon" of things that let neo-conservatives sleep well at night.Might as well have been written by Tom Delay for use on K-Street instead of yours and my living rooms. B)  :angry:
Other Software Company's will follow M$'s lead. If Redmond had their way there would be NO open source period.

#13 OFFLINE   Grasshopper

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 10:40 AM

View Postepp_b, on Dec 25 2006, 08:56 PM, said:

I hope I can do the same...the only thing holding me back is lack of applications for my needs B)
And games...
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#14 OFFLINE   RandomBox

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 06:02 PM

specmon, thank you for the link. B) Content Management is BigBoyz gamez!  We can't play!But these few excerpts were especially scary:

Quote

*...The result will be a technologically enforced monopoly that makes their current de-facto Windows monopoly seem like a velvet glove in comparison....*...As a user, there is simply no escape. Whether you use Windows Vista, Windows XP, Windows 95, Linux, FreeBSD, OS X, Solaris (on x86), or almost any other OS, Windows content protection will make your hardware more expensive, less reliable, more difficult to program for, more difficult to support, more vulnerable to hostile code, and with more compatibility problems. Because Windows dominates the market and device vendors are unlikely to design and manufacture two different versions of their products, non-Windows users will be paying for Windows Vista content-protection measures in products even if they never run Windows on them....*...Note B:...
Drats!

#15 OFFLINE   LilBambi

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 08:35 PM

View Postpatio, on Dec 25 2006, 08:52 PM, said:

Looks like i'm gonna be a very happy Win2K user for years to come...patio.  B)
Same here (WIN2K), that and Linux (Ubuntu and Fedora Core, and maybe some others) and now the Power PC OS X Tiger (since the new Mac Mini came in today).I will be likely recommending, or at least trying to recommend the Mac to clients from now on when they need a new computer unless they need Windows gaming and even then, we can set them up with a VMWare session or something for that maybe, after I test out that theory LOL!).
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#16 OFFLINE   RandomBox

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 10:10 PM

I really don't know that MAC can be immune to DRM and/or ramifications of the DMCA.As I remember my history correctly, MACs have always been closed systems that are more entrenched in a monopolistic market like no other!  As the article discusses, no one can be immune to DRM, especially when the source is MPAA derived.  The HiDef signals (for video feed) are not supposed to ever get out on the open.  I know all of you illegal people are sitting there scratching your palms, waiting to illegally transfer such content to make bazillions... tsk, tsk, tsk!  B)  I know there exists a problem but I am not quite sure if MicroSoft is the cause of it or if they are attempting to NOT get into the fray and thus they maybe being forced (by MPAA/DMCA) institute such harsh content management, without "us" getting a hold of such video streams!

#17 OFFLINE   Specmon

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 11:23 PM

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I know there exists a problem but I am not quite sure if MicroSoft is the cause of it or if they are attempting to NOT get into the fray and thus they maybe being forced (by MPAA/DMCA) institute such harsh content management, without "us" getting a hold of such video streams!
Gimme a break!  B) MS has been a scofflaw corporation from its inception, and more so as time increased the power that billion$ and billion$ gives.  B) If MS is "conforming" to perceived legal requirements, it is only because they see in it more profit by locking more people and more hardware manufactures to the MS "spec"Nobody, not even world governments, are really able to force MS to do things it doesn't want to do.We are now witnessing PALLADIUM in all its Orwellian glory.Be careful not to drop the soap.  B)

#18 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 07:59 PM

from specmon's quoted article:

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the first time a revocation takes out a hospital,foreign government department, air traffic control system, or whatever,they've guaranteed themselves a front-row seat in court proceedings for therest of their natural lives.
yeah, no joke.am not sure how much of that article to believe, having just spent 1/2 hour reading all of it, but not having done any other research.but do know this, it will soon be so tight you won't be able to breath.from gary's quoted article:

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a flaw that makes it possible to increase a user’s privileges
it's as old as windows; i'd be suprised if ms ever gets security right.
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#19 OFFLINE   greengeek

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 08:56 PM

If hardware is going to be used for protection then it has to be controlled by software?Software can be cracked.

#20 OFFLINE   epp_b

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 12:30 AM

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If hardware is going to be used for protection then it has to be controlled by software?Software can be cracked.
Bingo.  The idea that you can keep something secret from its owner is just hilarious! B)

#21 OFFLINE   Cluttermagnet

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 12:49 AM

Unbelievably bad. Beyond our collective worst nightmares. The Hooligan B*st*rds win, short term, we all lose (worldwide) in the long term. Hardware sellers delight, however. Instantly obsolete millions of hardware sub systems worldwide, in the blink of an eye. Yes, our national legislature is staffed by techno- idiots of the short- sighted, 'bought and paid for' variety. Oh joy...I personally don't ever buy or subscribe to any 'premium content', and intend to spend my remaining days living quite comfortably with intrinsically 'degraded' stuff. I have been all along. You know, scratchy old vinyl LP records, over- the- air free TV, etc. HDTV? What is that? Never had it, don't want it. Absolutely zero interest in that stuff here. Old, scratchy analog streams of all sorts are fine for me. I'm a radioman. I've spent many years picking signals out of noise. I am the spiritual and functional opposite of an 'audiophile' (or 'videophile'). Who needs it? But most folks are going to be highly inconvenienced and highly pis**d. I feel their pain...Real good article, thanks. But real, real bad news.  :rolleyes:  B)  :w00t:  :o :thumbsup:  :whistling: o:)  (etc.)Can you say "hot button issue"?

Edited by Cluttermagnet, 30 December 2006 - 12:53 AM.

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#22 OFFLINE   Cluttermagnet

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 02:27 AM

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Vista includes various requirements for "robustness" in which the contentindustry, through "hardware robustness rules", dictates design requirements tohardware manufacturers.  The level of control the content producers have overtechnical design details is nothing short of amazing.  As security researcherEd Felten quoted from Microsoft documents on his freedom-to-tinker web siteabout a year ago (http://www.freedom-t...nker.com/?p=882):  "The evidence [of security] must be presented to Hollywood and other content  owners, and they must agree that it provides the required level of security.  Written proof from at least three of the major Hollywood studios is  required".So if you design a new security system, you can't get it supported in WindowsVista until well-known computer security experts like Disney, MGM, and 20thCentury-Fox give you the go-ahead.  It's absolutely astonishing to findparagraphs like that in what are supposed to be Windows technical documents,since it gives Hollywood studios veto rights over Windows security mechanisms.
OMG! Just too bizarre to be funny- yet funny in a morbid sort of way. Reminds me of the voiceover in "A Clockwork Orange". "Oh, my brother..." BTW has anyone publically commented that the Hooligan B*st*rds are morons? We're led by morons. How special...  :whistling:"Bizarro Planet" of Saturday Night Live of a generation ago come to life...  B)

Edited by Cluttermagnet, 30 December 2006 - 02:31 AM.

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"Hey, Fred- isn't that your kid driving that bulldozer?"

In loving memory of Bruno Knaapen of Amsterdam, who shared
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#23 OFFLINE   RandomBox

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 03:48 PM

View PostCluttermagnet, on Dec 29 2006, 10:27 PM, said:

... BTW has anyone publically commented that the Hooligan B*st*rds are morons?
You are welcome to be the second person... :hmm:

#24 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 09:52 PM

read the sci-fi short, "the marching morons" written by cyril m. kornbluth, originally published in galaxy in april, 1951.ppl are led through books, newsprint, televised media to believe there is an off-world utopia and to board ships to utopia (which, of course, is the surface of the sun where they evaporate, as i recall...)o, it's a good read, and i've certainly not revealed the ending...
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#25 OFFLINE   Gary

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 11:30 PM

View PostCluttermagnet, on Dec 30 2006, 01:27 AM, said:

OMG! Just too bizarre to be funny- yet funny in a morbid sort of way. Reminds me of the voiceover in "A Clockwork Orange". "Oh, my brother..." BTW has anyone publically commented that the Hooligan B*st*rds are morons? We're led by morons. How special...  :)"Bizarro Planet" of Saturday Night Live of a generation ago come to life...  :lol:
The article is from the New York Times. ;) This flaw has been with Windows all along. There always will be some dumb ______ that will try to exploit anything. Software can be hacked whether it be Windows/Unix/Linux/OSX or whatever.I wonder if Echelon or whatever his name is still letting his son use Vista without Virus protection. Dee Dee Dee :D




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