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Is Microsoft losing it?


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#1 OFFLINE   Peachy

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Posted 25 March 2006 - 11:37 PM

By now everyone knows that Microsoft has pushed back the release of Vista to January 2007. Should we be worried? Should Microsoft be worried? Should Linux and Apple boosters rejoice?Some interesting analysis has been printed on the web in the last few days:60% of Windows Vista code to be rewrittenApple A Threat To Windows Vista. Re Write ConfirmedVista 2007. Fire the leadership now!Windows Vista Delay: Good News for Apple?The Vista Delay: Why would Microsoft cancel Christmas?If you cut through the marketing-speak one could make a good case that the Media Center Edition component is buggy. Why else to explain the availability of the volume license business editions in November? Or is it really a security issue that needs to be addressed? There's lotsa FUD being slinged at the moment... B)

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#2 OFFLINE   epp_b

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 12:20 AM

Same old, same old, the usual.  Microsoft pushes the Vista date back and says it's "for security".  No surprise here.  Hey, the longer it takes an OS that undoubtably incorporates even more DRM, the better.

#3 OFFLINE   daihard

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 04:00 AM

View Postepp_b, on Mar 25 2006, 08:20 PM, said:

Same old, same old, the usual.  Microsoft pushes the Vista date back and says it's "for security".  No surprise here.  Hey, the longer it takes an OS that undoubtably incorporates even more DRM, the better.
I personally think it's all about how they do not realize what they can and cannot do. Gates and Ballmer think anything is possible, but we all know from our experience that it's not the case. Maybe instead of continuing to try and kick all the competitors to dominate the world, they could stop and wonder what it's like to work together with other companies to make the computer world a better one.

#4 OFFLINE   havnblast

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 05:14 AM

Don't forget MS Office 2007 is delayed alsohttp://news.com.com/...53504&subj=newsJust found thisMicrosoft: No Vista Code Changeshttp://www.betanews....nges/1143232877

Edited by havnblast, 26 March 2006 - 05:16 AM.


#5 OFFLINE   daihard

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 05:59 AM

View Posthavnblast, on Mar 26 2006, 01:14 AM, said:

Just found thisMicrosoft: No Vista Code Changeshttp://www.betanews....nges/1143232877
No matter how lousy the Microsoft code may be, it's just impossible to rewrite 60% of the Vista code from now and still make the RTM in October (10/25/2005 is the hard RTM date, if I remember correctly)... In fact, such a massive rewrite would push the release at least a few more years.

#6 OFFLINE   Gary

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 01:06 PM

They can push it out until 2009 for all I care. I will conyinue to use Xp Pro and Linux.

#7 OFFLINE   epp_b

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 01:35 PM

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They can push it out until 2009 for all I care. I will conyinue to use Xp Pro and Linux.
As soon as I get a KVM that actually works, I'll be running Linux more often! B)

#8 OFFLINE   Specmon

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 03:25 PM

I agree with Gary.I could care less if Vista ever gets shipped.  I have no intention of getting involved in MS's Trusted Computing (used to be called Palladium, wasn't it?) or their DRM scheming.I'll have no use for Vista if it were free.I'll use WinXP until it becomes obsolete, then my computing will be strictly Linux.And if the hardware gets too tied up in the Palladium nonsense, then I'll buy Chinese processors and such even if I have to get them on the Gray or Black marketAnd if I can't do that, well....  I remember how to read a newspaper, use the phone, write a letter.  Heck, I still have a typewriter and a library card tucked away somewhere!  B)

#9 OFFLINE   daihard

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 05:15 PM

View PostSpecmon, on Mar 26 2006, 11:25 AM, said:

I could care less if Vista ever gets shipped.  I have no intention of getting involved in MS's Trusted Computing (used to be called Palladium, wasn't it?) or their DRM scheming.I'll have no use for Vista if it were free.
Living in Seattle, I have quite a few friends who work on Windows at Microsoft. Almost all of them say they'll wait for a couple of years, or at least until SP1 comes out, to install Vista at home. I find that interesting...

#10 OFFLINE   epp_b

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 06:18 PM

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I could care less if Vista ever gets shipped. I have no intention of getting involved in MS's Trusted Computing (used to be called Palladium, wasn't it?) or their DRM scheming.
AMEN to that!  I have absolutely NO intention of letting someone ELSE (let alone some faceless, brainless, moral-less corporation) tell ME what I am "allowed" do with MY computer.  The END! B) :rant:Microsoft and friends can take their TC/TPM/NGSCB/<insert what you think it might be renamed to in a few months here> and shove it...

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Living in Seattle, I have quite a few friends who work on Windows at Microsoft. Almost all of them say they'll wait for a couple of years, or at least until SP1 comes out, to install Vista at home. I find that interesting...
I didn't switch to XP until long after SP2 came out.  Only idiots who believe sensationalized news go out and buy a copy of Windows the day it comes out and actually use it in a production environment.

Edited by epp_b, 26 March 2006 - 06:18 PM.


#11 OFFLINE   daihard

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 06:34 PM

View Postepp_b, on Mar 26 2006, 02:18 PM, said:

I didn't switch to XP until long after SP2 came out.  Only idiots who believe sensationalized news go out and buy a copy of Windows the day it comes out and actually use it in a production environment.
Exactly... I find that interesting because we're talking about those who are part of the Windows development team. If no-one else, they should have the confidence in the product they develop. If that's how they feel about Vista, we as consumers really have no choice but to avoid it!Just so you know... I'm an avid Linux user. My XP box at home only gets fired up when I have to work from home AND use XP. B)

#12 OFFLINE   Marsden11

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 07:16 PM

I'll continue to use Vista and happily upgrade across the board when it ships with my Action Pack quarterly update. At that point I'll have 10 licenses for XP and 10 new licenses for Vista.And in just a couple of years Vista will come to dominate the market just like XP has. Hopefully those still stuck on 98 will wake up a finally smell the coffee and move forward.How many Linux fans are still using an 8 year old Linux distro as their main everyday workstation??? They were all smart enough to move on...

#13 OFFLINE   Gary

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 07:24 PM

View PostMarsden11, on Mar 26 2006, 06:16 PM, said:

I'll continue to use Vista and happily upgrade across the board when it ships with my Action Pack quarterly update. At that point I'll have 10 licenses for XP and 10 new licenses for Vista.And in just a couple of years Vista will come to dominate the market just like XP has. Hopefully those still stuck on 98 will wake up a finally smell the coffee and move forward.How many Linux fans are still using an 8 year old Linux distro as their main everyday workstation??? They were all smart enough to move on...

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How many Linux fans are still using an 8 year old Linux distro as their main everyday workstation??? They were all smart enough to move on...
Yes but they did so willingly and were not forced too. When does support for XP end??????

#14 OFFLINE   daihard

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 07:42 PM

View PostMarsden11, on Mar 26 2006, 03:16 PM, said:

And in just a couple of years Vista will come to dominate the market just like XP has. Hopefully those still stuck on 98 will wake up a finally smell the coffee and move forward.
If Windows 98 does the job for you, why change it?

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How many Linux fans are still using an 8 year old Linux distro as their main everyday workstation??? They were all smart enough to move on...
A more meaningful quesiton would be, how many people were using Linux as their main everyday workstation 8 years ago? B)

#15 OFFLINE   Marsden11

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 08:22 PM

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A more meaningful question would be, how many people were using Linux as their main everyday workstation 8 years ago?
Not very many...

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If Windows 98 does the job for you, why change it?
How about safety? I could very easily drive a 50 year old car without seat belts, air bags, or anti-lock brakes but  I find it much safer for my family to drive a newer model with all of the features I mentioned above.Win98, 98SE and Me are not safe and whatever security patches that have been applied amount to nothing more than band-aids.Does Apple still support OS7 and OS8?

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Yes but they did so willingly and were not forced too
Tell that to the Mac faithful...

#16 OFFLINE   LilBambi

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 10:09 PM

Vista looks very nice.I will likely stay with XP Pro and Linux and who knows from there.I am not going to be using a DRM and TPM/TCPA ridden OS. Hope they realize that. :)
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#17 OFFLINE   daihard

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 10:44 PM

View PostMarsden11, on Mar 26 2006, 04:22 PM, said:

How about safety? I could very easily drive a 50 year old car without seat belts, air bags, or anti-lock brakes but  I find it much safer for my family to drive a newer model with all of the features I mentioned above.
From what I read every day, XP doesn't seem to be all that much safer either.Now if those Win98 users want to swtich to Linux, that's another story... :)

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Does Apple still support OS7 and OS8?
You almost sound like Microsoft should not do anything Apple doesn't do. For me, I couldn't care less what Apple does.

#18 OFFLINE   Marsden11

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 12:09 AM

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I am not going to be using a DRM and TPM/TCPA ridden OS.
And you have links to the documentation that proves this?Funny that my daughter was ripping audio CDs to her Zen Micro using the Zen software on Vista today...

#19 OFFLINE   daihard

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 01:21 AM

View PostMarsden11, on Mar 26 2006, 08:09 PM, said:

Funny that my daughter was ripping audio CDs to her Zen Micro using the Zen software on Vista today...
Just curious, is Vista going to support the ogg music format? Another question is, will WMP with Vista allow you to rip music in mp3 format at 160 Kbps?

#20 OFFLINE   epp_b

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 11:50 AM

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How about safety? I could very easily drive a 50 year old car without seat belts, air bags, or anti-lock brakes but I find it much safer for my family to drive a newer model with all of the features I mentioned above.
Security is 90% up to the user (if not more).  It is entirely possible (and not that difficult) to run Windows 98 without getting a single attack.  Just be smart in your computing: install a firewall, use up-to-date AV software, use something other than IE and OE when at all possible, and just use plain-old common sense.  Microsoft doesn't send security patches via email and that attachment really doesn't have pictures of lonely cheerleaders.WARNING: CONTINUANCE OF CAR ANALOGYYou wouldn't drive a 50-year-old car on normal roads without first modifying it to be safe just like you wouldn't run Windows 98 without installaling necessary security add-ons (of course, you wouldn't do that with XP either).

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Win98, 98SE and Me are not safe and whatever security patches that have been applied amount to nothing more than band-aids.
I think my counter-point above proves otherwise.

Edited by epp_b, 27 March 2006 - 11:54 AM.


#21 OFFLINE   Rons

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 11:55 AM

Gary - I believe that support for XP will continue for 2 years after Vista is released.  :D At least that is what MS has posted on their site.And there is a good chance this could be extended, since there are millions who will continue to use it. :) daihard - thanks for the insight about Vista. Over the yers, I would normally jump into new versions as they were released. But I think that this may be the first version in which I will take a wait and see approach. The advice about waiting for SP1 to be released might be a sound call.But I await the next beta release, which I understand may be in May [?], before making that decision. Thus far Vista has performed fairly well, with only 6 minor issues reported to MS. One annoyance I hope that is fixed, is on a simple peer to peer, using a router - modem to a DSL connection,  Vista knocks out the network when I am on the Internet. Anyone else here have that problem? Solution?

Edited by Rons, 27 March 2006 - 11:57 AM.


#22 OFFLINE   crp

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 12:09 PM

Well, I still use Win98SE at home. It does what I need and most of what I want.As for security - I haven't been hit with virus,trojans or malware for over 3 years now. :D  Amazing what a firewall  and not using msOutlook or msIE will do for protection.
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#23 OFFLINE   epp_b

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 01:39 PM

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Amazing what a firewall and not using msOutlook or msIE will do for protection.
My prior point exactly.

#24 OFFLINE   Marsden11

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 01:41 PM

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Vista knocks out the network when I am on the Internet.
Please give more details...Win98...Lack of support for large memory installations. No support for NTFS which at a minimum would offer file recovery which FAT32 lacks since it is not a journaling file system. Lack of a Recovery Console to fix anything. Lack of the ability to blow the install partition away without hosing the rest of the partitions on a single HD. FDISK just won't cut it there...All support from MS ends in July this year which means no more security updates. Time to move forward folks.My car analogy was to illustrate that both vehicles will get you from point a to point b. The newer one will do it safer, as in it has more safety features to keep you safer in the event of an emergency. Like a panic brake or hitting something head on.Not very feasible to add anti-lock brakes and air bags to a classic car. Would would certify that the air bags would work as entended? So your counter point is basically moot.

Edited by Marsden11, 27 March 2006 - 01:43 PM.


#25 OFFLINE   epp_b

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 02:02 PM

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Lack of support for large memory installations. No support for NTFS which at a minimum would offer file recovery which FAT32 lacks since it is not a journaling file system. Lack of a Recovery Console to fix anything.
That's because it doesn't need a recovery console.  That's what DOS is for.

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Lack of the ability to blow the install partition away without hosing the rest of the partitions on a single HD. FDISK just won't cut it there..
Uh...heard of PartitionMagic?  BootIt NG?  Acronis Disk Director?  Need I list more?You seem to forget that not everyone needs all these features!  Grandpa and Grandma don't need this.  They just want something to play solitaire on.  Even Win95 or Win 3.1 will do that.

Edited by epp_b, 27 March 2006 - 02:03 PM.





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