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Talk about your FUD...


Marsden11

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FUD alert!!! FUD alert!!! FUD alert!!!I so love the utter accuracy of the claims.http://www.udrogoth.com/images/oops.pnghttp://www.udrogoth.com/images/tabbed-browsing.pngSorry, you can't do this in FF.http://www.udrogoth.com/images/ff-not.pngNow that is some serious FUD...I changed the images back to links to their original location --steeler_fan

Edited by steeler_fan
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cc3jk.th.gifOh and you can spread them out.I changed the image to a thumbnail, in accordance with Rule 8 of the forum rules. --steeler_fan Edited by steeler_fan
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FUD alert! FUD alert! FUD alert! FUD alert! FUD alert! FUD alert! FUD alert! It is a stock feature of FF? NO! You have to add a something to get that functionalality... I just want to browse with IE and not spend most of my time managing the add-ons and crossing my fingers that the add-ons won't misbehave with each other. All FF does is make you the user toil to actually have something useful.Burn the Fox!

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how do you do that?

FUD alert! FUD alert! FUD alert! FUD alert! FUD alert! FUD alert! FUD alert! It is a stock feature of FF? NO! You have to add a something to get that functionalality... I just want to browse with IE and not spend most of my time managing the add-ons and crossing my fingers that the add-ons won't misbehave with each other. All FF does is make you the user toil to actually have something useful.Burn the Fox!
at the same time if one doesn't want that featured built in one can opt not to install it in FF, but does IE allow you not to have it?
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but does IE allow you not to have it?
Don't care... If I don't want the feature... I just don't use it... That applies to all my programs.
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What you showed isn't a stock feature of Internet Explorer, either. Not yet, at least.On the subject of "FUD", I think I've found some too!

I just want to browse with IE and not spend most of my time managing the add-ons and crossing my fingers that the add-ons won't misbehave with each other. All FF does is make you the user toil to actually have something useful.
Extension conflicts are not common, though they do happen. Usually they occur when someone decides to try 30 extensions at a time, or tries to add several extensions with overlapping features. If I've said it here once, I've said it a hundred times: Firefox by default is a very functional and useful browser. It is perfectly useable by default, and many extensions add extra features (such as having the weather in the taskbar, or checking a gmail inbox, etc).There is a lot that IE7 fixes, but there is still a lot of work that needs to be done. They're just adding PNG Alpha Transparency in IE7, for instance. Not to mention they're finally starting to fix their CSS support, and many other areas....Also, I've edited your initial post (Marsden11) and Gary's post, to change the images. Please make sure the images comply with Rule 8 of the forum rules before posting them here!
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Guest LilBambi

I don't want that feature! Can I get rid of it in IE? With FF I don't have to install it at all. :thumbsup:Thanks Neil for fixing the images. :thumbsup:Makes for a nice, unbroken page!

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Don't care... If I don't want the feature... I just don't use it... That applies to all my programs.
Some don't want the bloat tho - it's nice to have the option to bloat your own system or not
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So if you don't like something, it shouldn't exist for the benefit of those who would like to use it? Do you happen to work for Microsoft?I like to make my own choices, thank you very much.

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Seagate just released a 750GB hard drive. Bloat is such a non issue...
Wrong. More features = more chance of bugs. Firefox has the right model of software development.First, it means you can have only the features you need without the extra junk getting in your way and bloating the software.Second, making the code completely open allows developers to see exactly what they need to make their code stable, reliable and secure.Now, what was that you were saying about zealots in that other thread... :thumbsup:
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What about getting rid of IE itself? Can't do that either!
Wrong!Want to remove Windows components like Media Player, Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, MSN Explorer, Messenger... ?Download a copy of nLite and make Win2K, XP (x86, x64) Win2K3 (x86, x64) whatever you want it to be. Remove components, add service packs, remove services, create an unattended setup, driver integration, hotfix integration, system tweaks, add patches and in the end create a bootable ISO.That sounds like choice to me...nLite home pagenLite download pageIt is freeware and has been on the market for years...
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You have the freedom to run your system anyway you like. I have freedom and choice to run whatever I like on my HP laptop. HP does not support XP x64 on my Athlon64 laptop. Yet, I'm still running it unsupported. If I do ever need HP hardware support, I just pop in the orginal HD and send it back to HP. I have freedom and choice.If you have a Linux distro running on your machine you can configure any way you like. With support or without. You have freedom and choice as well.

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Want to remove Windows components like Media Player, Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, MSN Explorer, Messenger... ?Download a copy of nLite and make Win2K, XP (x86, x64) Win2K3 (x86, x64) whatever you want it to be. Remove components, add service packs, remove services, create an unattended setup, driver integration, hotfix integration, system tweaks, add patches and in the end create a bootable ISO.That sounds like choice to me...
That's not a choice, that's a work-around.If it were really a choice, Microsoft would offer options to explicitly install such applications during the installation of Windows.
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Marsden11

They do and it's called Unattended Install. A 3rd party came along and and tweaked the process and made it better. nLite would not work if it was not following the basic UI APIs.I believe that is the underlying premis of open source...You can call it whatever you like... it still does not keep anyone from tweaking their windows OS to whatever they like. I don't see MS sending out "cease and desist" orders to the creator of nLite...Actually it is freedom. You have the freedom to download any open source OS and tweak the TCP/IP stack in the kernel if you want and are able to do so without hosing it.I and anyone else has the freedom to download nLite and tweak XP whatever way I or they like. They can also tweak too far and hose XP. Just like you can hose the TCP/IP stack in any open source kernel you choose.So are we going to call open source code a work around as well...? Why didn't RedHat make the TCP/IP stack better?

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Guest LilBambi
Wrong!
First - there are no wrong or right opinions ... only differing opinions. We are a diverse family of Highlanders here at Scot's Newsletter Forums, and respect for each other in our postings is very important. Although, this is mentioned in connection with a specific post, it is not directed at just one member. We all have to keep this in mind. Thanks! --Bambi
Want to remove Windows components like Media Player, Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, MSN Explorer, Messenger... ?Download a copy of nLite and make Win2K, XP (x86, x64) Win2K3 (x86, x64) whatever you want it to be. Remove components, add service packs, remove services, create an unattended setup, driver integration, hotfix integration, system tweaks, add patches and in the end create a bootable ISO.That sounds like choice to me...nLite home pagenLite download pageIt is freeware and has been on the market for years...
That is a very nice option for a knowledgeable computer users/tinkerer, but this option is not really for just any user ... and I think that Microsoft would not 'support' that installation any more than they do OEMs.The difference between OEMs Windows installs, and NLiteOS's Windows installs is that Dell, HP and other OEM companies do support their OEM version - BECAUSE - Microsoft will not.The Support page for NLiteOS is broken and in their Guide/FAQ, they are suggesting getting Windows Updates from some third party site.Removing a few programs may not be problematic but suggesting that Internet Explorer can be removed without potential problems in regard to updates and/or some vendor specific software may well be.Having an OS installation that can't possibly be sanctioned by the vendor IF Internet Explorer is not installed and would disallow getting MS updates directly on the machine without going through some third party option is no real option for many.Most Security experts would agree that getting your security updates directly from the vendor is best.NLiteOS does requires the installation of .NET framework to even work. .NET framework comes stock with new OEM/Retail MS Windows SP2 installations disks, but older pre-SP1 upgrades of WinXP Pro do not come with it installed. .NET framework can be downloaded and installed easily enough if you want it -- but at least now, it's not really needed in most cases ... but it is required to run .NET for NLiteOS.In Linux/UNIX/Mac, you generally get your OS level security updates from the OS vendor, either directly, through their update process, or through their FTP or repository sites with validation hashes.Many program vendors for Linux/UNIX even have their updates being done through the OS vendor's update process or through their own site, for their own software.In the case of NLiteOS -- without Microsoft's Internet Explorer, you would not have that option, except maybe through Automatic Windows Updates, but even then, sometimes you really need to hit the MS Download site (and WGA may well be required for the download) or the real Windows Update site (definitely the WGA would be required) to get past a certain trouble spot ... not in all cases but it has been know to happen on a number of occasions.This would mean having another Windows install on another computer or partition (with appropriate legal license), that can be validated by MS to get many of the updates that may come later if you want do what most Security experts say is a prudent move regarding updates.There are also some programs that require Internet Explorer be on the system to work properly.I don't know if the latest version of Intuit software requires it anymore since I don't buy Intuit software because of that requirement and their DRM, but in earlier versions, certain things would not work right for several Intuit programs if not only was IE installed, but IE also had to be the DEFAULT browser to be fully functional because of the way Intuit lazily made their calls for the IE browser.At one time, McAfee required it too for their updates to function right, but if I remember correctly, their latest versions do not.And as for removing Media Player, Outlook Express, MSN Explorer, Messenger .. there have always been ways to remove and/or disable these without resorting to a Windows install that would prevent getting MS Updates direct from the OS vendor site.Just my two cents.... your mileage may vary as the saying goes.
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daveydoom
First - there are no wrong or right opinions ... only differing opinions. We are a diverse family of Highlanders here at Scot's Newsletter Forums, and respect for each other in our postings is very important. Although, this is mentioned in connection with a specific post, it is not directed at just one member. We all have to keep this in mind. Thanks! --Bambi
Sorry to jump in here but you have taken Marsden's post out of context :hysterical: . He was totally correct with his answer of "WRONG". It wasn't a jab at anyone, he was simply answering a question. And he was right :) . Someone said you can't get rid of IE but you can..with the solution that Marsden provided. That has nothing to do with a difference of opinion or not respecting someone else's idea. It's an answer.
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Sorry to jump in here but you have taken Marsden's post out of context :hysterical: . He was totally correct with his answer of "WRONG". It wasn't a jab at anyone, he was simply answering a question. And he was right :) . Someone said you can't get rid of IE but you can..with the solution that Marsden provided. That has nothing to do with a difference of opinion or not respecting someone else's idea. It's an answer.
Without IE, how would one get to Windows Update?
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daveydoom
Without IE, how would one get to Windows Update?
There's at least one alternative although I can't for the life of me find the link at this time :hysterical: . But in any case, that's something someone should think about before they use nLite. I'm not getting into the browser war that seems to be constantly going on around here :) that wasn't the idea behind my post ;)
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Marsden11

I responded to the assertion that you can't remove IE from Windows. The assertion was incorrect, and not stated as opinion but as fact. His facts were incorrect. Anyone who wishes to do so can use nLite to remove IE and other components.There seems to be this prevailing notion that Windows needs IE for updates.The reality is that you don't need IE to get updates. All IE provides is an automatic system scan through an ActiveX control, comparing your current system to an updated catalog list.Anyone with ANY browser can go to http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/Browse.aspx and browse for updates... ANY updates or other free programs that MS offers.There is the problem with the average home user accomplishing this but that is no different than any Linux distro user trying countless distros and coming here for help.

That is a very nice option for a knowledgeable computer users/tinkerer, but this option is not really for just any user ...
Just as any Linux distro user needs a bit of extra computer savvy to install countless distros.
Most Security experts would agree that getting your security updates directly from the vendor is best.
See above link. As to 3rd party sites that have compiled patches for different windows versions... I view that as rather helpful for the windows community.
In the case of NLiteOS -- without Microsoft's Internet Explorer, you would not have that option...
See above link.
This would mean having another Windows install on another computer or partition (with appropriate legal license)...
See above link... it can all be done on a single machine. All nLite does is create a custom unattended install for the time when windows hurls chunks and you start over. I think it is a huge time saver to create a custom install complete with the windows components you want or don't want and all the patches and service packs slip streamed into the install. You can add any programs you want as well. Not much different from creating a backup image of a clean install...
There are also some programs that require Internet Explorer be on the system to work properly.
This is true just as it is also true that certain Linux/Unix programs need certain libraries to function properly.
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Anyone with ANY browser can go to http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/Browse.aspx and browse for updates... ANY updates or other free programs that MS offers.
Yes but that is not Windows Update. Without IE I cannot make use of the automatic update function that Microsoft offers.
I'm not getting into the browser war that seems to be constantly going on around here tongue.gif that wasn't the idea behind my post wink.gif
There is no war going on here just debate, is that not what a forum is for? To exchange information and ideas?
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Guest LilBambi

Davy, I think you may have misunderstood the meaning of my posting. It was just a friendly reminder to all members. Nothing more, nothing less.

Anyone with ANY browser can go to http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/Browse.aspx and browse for updates... ANY updates or other free programs that MS offers.This is true just as it is also true that certain Linux/Unix programs need certain libraries to function properly.
That is a nice link, and I have saved it for sure! :thumbsup:I am not sure that one could equate an entire program being required as a default browser with 'certain libraries' to function properly, but I do understand what you are saying.
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There is no war going on here just debate, is that not what a forum is for? To exchange information and ideas?
Good point Gary - If it wasn't, we would all dump our computers and take up knitting. :) No offense intended to anyone here that knits! :hysterical:
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