Jump to content


Time for new Power Supply?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
52 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   GolfProRM

GolfProRM

    Mr. Incredible

  • Forum MVP
  • 2,910 posts

Posted 20 August 2004 - 10:05 PM

I just added a DVD burner to my computer, and am wondering if I'm pushing the limits of my power supply.I haven't had any problems in Linux, but when I booted into Windows, I had an occurrence where my computer just shut off (instantly)...  It only happened once, but I'm wondering if it's power supply rated.Here's my system specs:
Home PC      Brand: Home Built      Case: Generic      Power Supply: 300w Enermax      Processor: AMD AthlonXP 2000+       Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-7VA      Chipset: VIA KT400      RAM: 512 MB DDR PC2700 (333 Mhz)      Harddrives: 80Gb Western Digital 7200rpm ATA133                         30Gb Maxtor 7200rpm ATA133      Video: 128 Mb GeForce FX5600 8x AGP      Audio: Soundblaster Audigy2 LS      CDROM: 52x24x52 CD-RW drive      DVD+-RW: 12X Optorite Burner      Other: 6 USB 2.0 ports, 5 PCI slots, 1 8x AGP slot.      Keyboard: Microsoft Natural Multimedia Keyboard      Mouse: Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 4.0A      Joystick: Logitech Wingman Extreme Digital      OS: SuSE9.1/Windows XP Pro
I don't really have a lot of money to spend on a new power supply, but if I need one, I'l get one.   I'm open to suggestion as to what wattage to buy and what brands will give me the best bang for my buck.Help is appreciated! ;)

#2 OFFLINE   longgone

longgone

    Thread Kahuna

  • Forum MVP
  • 5,155 posts

Posted 20 August 2004 - 10:21 PM

I was given this web site in my post about a possibly dead computer ... you might check it and see if it helps you out any ....

Quote

]
Dale

U.S. Navy (ret.) '62 - '84
Communications (Radioman)

Reg. Linux User 412421

#3 OFFLINE   GolfProRM

GolfProRM

    Mr. Incredible

  • Forum MVP
  • 2,910 posts

Posted 20 August 2004 - 10:33 PM

Well...  per that site, I get:Your Recommended Minimum Power Supply is 296 Watts!!Think I should upgrade?

#4 OFFLINE   Stryder

Stryder

    Multithreader

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,073 posts

Posted 20 August 2004 - 10:45 PM

Hey Ryan!!! How you been???Yeah, I would upgrade. 350w minimum....personally, I would go for 400.

#5 OFFLINE   nlinecomputers

nlinecomputers

    Discussion Deity

  • No Longer a Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,932 posts

Posted 20 August 2004 - 10:46 PM

Yep.  You too close to the limits.  Especially as older power supplies tend to grow weaker and fail to deliver as much juice as they do when new.
Nathan Williams, N-Line Computers

How to kill a programmer:  Give him a shampoo bottle.  Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

#6 OFFLINE   longgone

longgone

    Thread Kahuna

  • Forum MVP
  • 5,155 posts

Posted 20 August 2004 - 10:47 PM

;)  :happyroll: Welll......... with just 4 watts to spare ... I think it could might be a good idea... at least up to a 350 watt .... I know they have/had 320 watt PSU's at one time .. but I think a 10% cushion of the rated consumption rate about that would be sufficient....   maybe Nathan can jump in and give a view on this too ...
Dale

U.S. Navy (ret.) '62 - '84
Communications (Radioman)

Reg. Linux User 412421

#7 OFFLINE   GolfProRM

GolfProRM

    Mr. Incredible

  • Forum MVP
  • 2,910 posts

Posted 20 August 2004 - 10:47 PM

Okay, so I should upgrade...  suggestions of brands/places to get one for not much $$$?

#8 OFFLINE   longgone

longgone

    Thread Kahuna

  • Forum MVP
  • 5,155 posts

Posted 20 August 2004 - 10:50 PM

Start at    www.pricegrabber.com .... that will give you a good ball park to work from ....  computer surplus.com ...........  tiger direct
Dale

U.S. Navy (ret.) '62 - '84
Communications (Radioman)

Reg. Linux User 412421

#9 OFFLINE   nlinecomputers

nlinecomputers

    Discussion Deity

  • No Longer a Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,932 posts

Posted 20 August 2004 - 10:51 PM

Best way IMHO to judge a PSU is by weight.  All other factors being equal the more the unit wieghs the stronger and more reliable the unit tends to be.I get my PSUs from directon.com because they are on of the few places that post the weight of the units.
Nathan Williams, N-Line Computers

How to kill a programmer:  Give him a shampoo bottle.  Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

#10 OFFLINE   NRD

NRD

    Message Mogul

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 490 posts

Posted 20 August 2004 - 11:01 PM

I'm partial to OCZ, Enermax, and Antec in that order. Try to get as much amperage to the 12 & 3.3 volt rails as possible for your buck. the Enermax PS's would probably be kind to your wallet and still perform well.  As for where to buy, I now buy everything from new egg. The 520 watt OCZ is on my wish list  ;)  :happyroll: Link

#11 OFFLINE   GolfProRM

GolfProRM

    Mr. Incredible

  • Forum MVP
  • 2,910 posts

Posted 20 August 2004 - 11:10 PM

NRD, on Aug 20 2004, 09:59 PM, said:

I'm partial to OCZ, Enermax, and Antec in that order. Try to get as much amperage to the 12 & 5 volt rails as possible for your buck. the Enermax PS's would probably be kind to your wallet and still perform well.  As for where to buy, I now buy everything from new egg. The 520 watt OCZ is on my wish list  ;)  :happyroll: Link
Now THAT'S a power supply!!!!It's only $125 on Newegg.com ;)I'm thinking about looking for one with a 120mm fan to help reduce some noise...  will have to wait a week (need to get paid again) before I buy one.

#12 OFFLINE   longgone

longgone

    Thread Kahuna

  • Forum MVP
  • 5,155 posts

Posted 20 August 2004 - 11:13 PM

I was just over to Price Grabber and they have some PSU's ,, a true 450w for less than 60.00 but in going with  Nathans comment about weight it was given  in kg's 2.5 and I do not do well in converting that ..  they  did have an Antec 350w  wt 5 lbs .. less than 40.00
Dale

U.S. Navy (ret.) '62 - '84
Communications (Radioman)

Reg. Linux User 412421

#13 OFFLINE   NRD

NRD

    Message Mogul

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 490 posts

Posted 20 August 2004 - 11:52 PM

I read an article a while back that concurs with nlinecomputers weight argument.. More robust power supplies require heavier components like heat sinks...but I wonder how long it is before some of the bargain vendors start adding blocks of cheap metal in strategic places  to beef up the weight  :lol:When it comes to critical components like cooling, power supplies etc I follow the advice of the overclockers. They push their components to the limit, so anything that gets their nod is usually top notch stuff.This enermax Noisetaker is a decent midrange product ($80) it has seperate 12v rails for a total of 31 amps. LinkI was lucky enough to buy a case that came with a 120mm fan. It pulls lots of air and is extremely quiet.  My other case has two 80mm and you can hear it across the room...I'm yanking them out in favor of one 120mm. The larger fans really make an incredible difference in noise.

#14 OFFLINE   Cluttermagnet

Cluttermagnet

    Nocturnal Radio Geek

  • Forum MVP
  • 3,874 posts

Posted 21 August 2004 - 12:03 AM

2.2 pounds to the kilogram- so 2.5 kilograms is equal to 5.5 pounds. Hey, go get one of those free conversion utilities. There are a bunch of them. Plug in a number, give it the to and from units, and let it crank out the numbers. Or use a calculator and figure it yourself if you are feeling frisky.  ;) I use Unit Converter v 1.05 by Johannes Wallroth, Berlin, Germany. Get it here.Click on the Download link and scroll down to Unit Converter. A small 80K freeware utility.
Special Limited Edition Cluttermaster 2007 with direct air cooling system.
"ClutterLabs" --open hardware for open software" .......... Registered Linux User 446867


("It takes an entire village to raise a child...")
"It takes only one bulldozer to raze an entire village..."
"Hey, Fred- isn't that your kid driving that bulldozer?"

In loving memory of Bruno Knaapen of Amsterdam, who shared
his love of Linux, and thereby made the world a better place...

#15 OFFLINE   Peachy

Peachy

    Anarquista De Sartorial

  • Forum Moderators
  • 5,448 posts

Posted 21 August 2004 - 12:42 AM

The Antec Smart SL350 is a decent one weighing in at 5lbs! If you want nice features like SATA power connectors then the TruePower TRUE330 is good, too.

'freedom...is actually the reason that men live together in political organisations at all. Without it, political life as such would be meaningless. The raison d'Être of politics is freedom, and its field of experience is action'.
My Flickr Photo Blog Posted Image
del.icio.us bookmarks Posted Image


#16 OFFLINE   Ozidave

Ozidave

    Multithreader

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,446 posts

Posted 21 August 2004 - 07:09 AM

GolfProRM, on Aug 21 2004, 11:33 AM, said:

I haven't had any problems in Linux, but when I booted into Windows, I had an occurrence where my computer just shut off (instantly)...  It only happened once, but I'm wondering if it's power supply rated.
Hi Ryan,Bit strange that Linux would run Ok and Win doesn't as I can't see Win drawing any more current than Linux for the hardware. :( You don't say what Win it is But, you can go into System Properties / Startup and Recovery / System Failure and De-Select Auto-Restart.Might be worth a try? :rolleyes:

#17 OFFLINE   Ozidave

Ozidave

    Multithreader

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,446 posts

Posted 21 August 2004 - 07:43 AM

nlinecomputers, on Aug 21 2004, 12:19 PM, said:

Best way IMHO to judge a PSU is by weight.  All other factors being equal the more the unit weighs the stronger and more reliable the unit tends to be.
Hi Nathan,Not a bad rough estimate, but correct never the less. :( To increase the amperage output of a transformer the Primary and Secondary windings must retain the same ratio of windings as a lesser wattage unit, the only thing that can be done to increase the amperage is to increase the size of the Copper wire used to wind the coils with. And of course this increases both the physical size and the weight of the transformer. The diodes used in the the bridge-rectifier are also higher rated and larger but don't really count for much extra weight, the same with some of the other components.That rough guide would extend to a 400w tranny being nearly double the weight of a 200w. :) Yep! I agree with what you say. :rolleyes:

#18 OFFLINE   GolfProRM

GolfProRM

    Mr. Incredible

  • Forum MVP
  • 2,910 posts

Posted 21 August 2004 - 08:19 AM

Ozidave, on Aug 21 2004, 06:07 AM, said:

Hi Ryan,Bit strange that Linux would run Ok and Win doesn't as I can't see Win drawing any more current than Linux for the hardware. :( You don't say what Win it is But, you can go into System Properties / Startup and Recovery / System Failure and De-Select Auto-Restart.Might be worth a try? :rolleyes:
My system specs say what OS I'm running (I posted them in the first post)... It's WinXP Pro.I've got the Auto-restart shut off.I booted back into windows last night, and haven't had any problems since, so I'm wondering if it wasn't a loose power cord or something...-------------------------------------------------I've got my eye on a couple now...http://www.newegg.co...-103-445&depa=0ORhttp://www.newegg.co...-163-104&depa=0

#19 OFFLINE   Ozidave

Ozidave

    Multithreader

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,446 posts

Posted 21 August 2004 - 08:35 AM

GolfProRM, on Aug 21 2004, 09:47 PM, said:

My system specs say what OS I'm running (I posted them in the first post)... It's WinXP Pro.
Ouch! :rolleyes:  :(  :)

#20 OFFLINE   NRD

NRD

    Message Mogul

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 490 posts

Posted 21 August 2004 - 04:25 PM

GolfProRM, on Aug 21 2004, 07:17 AM, said:

If it was my money I would go with the Enermax. It has dual  +12v rails,  15amps(+12v1) & 14amps(+12v2).  With dual 12v rails you are practically guaranteeing yourself stable voltages. I've noticed that mobos are getting very sensitive where clean stable power is concerned. It will be a plus if you ever outgrow your current motherboard. Will also be handy if you over clock, which requires stable power.The Siverstone is only suppling 18amps total to +12v. Which in my opinion is skimpy. One of my 350w Antecs delivers 16.  I know that big fan is a plus, but the +12v rail gets drawn on by the Processor, optical & hard drives, as well as some case fans.

#21 OFFLINE   ibe98765

ibe98765

    Posting Prodigy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,467 posts

Posted 21 August 2004 - 05:29 PM

The link to the power calculator was interesting.  My max power requirements are 17 watts MORE than the max my power supply provides.  And I don't have any problems.As the site warns:

Quote

Please Note: The Wattages listed below are maximum peak wattages for each component. The total amount this calculator figures is for all devices running at peak utilization. It is important to bear in mind that this amount will never be reached under typical operation.
I recall reading somewhere that you can generally take the number generated by power calculators like this and divide by 2 for real world approximate usage.It is good to have some headroom on power, but I think too many people get enamored over raw BIG numbers.  It's the old stereotype, if a little is good, more must be better.  People who put premium gas in cars designed to run on regular gas think similarly.  They think a bigger octane number will make their car generate more horsepower.  Ain't so!In terms of power for a computer, the QUALITY is most important.   You want stead, clean power.  Cleaning up the power before it reaches the power supply will help your system a lot, even if it has a cheap power supply.

#22 OFFLINE   b2cm

b2cm

    Posting Prodigy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,349 posts

Posted 21 August 2004 - 06:01 PM

That's interesting.What processor are you using? Is your mobo integrated? Whats the maximum amperes on your PSU's 12v rail?

#23 OFFLINE   NRD

NRD

    Message Mogul

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 490 posts

Posted 21 August 2004 - 06:09 PM

Your Gasoline analogy is partially incorrect as compares to Power supplies.  A higher octane than recommended is a waste of money & will rob you of performance. The goal is  have the lowest octane that will not cause the engine to knock. Anything more is a waste.Having a power supply rated higher than system spec is not a waste of money and will improve performance in most cases. Playing percentages with highly sensitive electronic equipment is a recipe for disaster. You are risking system stability and possible component failure.  It should also meet future needs without problems.I've seen too many cases in which people get BSOD's, spontaneously rebooting computers, GPF faults, and wonder why. They have poured hundreds of dollars into their systems but balk at spending $65 on a component that powers all their devices, opting for a $10 piece of junk that came with the case.In this case more is better...and as I've said previously, rail amperage is just as important as wattage.

#24 OFFLINE   ibe98765

ibe98765

    Posting Prodigy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,467 posts

Posted 22 August 2004 - 05:51 AM

Let's think logically here.  You only need enough AMOUNT of power to cover your PEAK requirements.  Anything more is of no value.  As the previous quote from the original link says - most people will NEVER come near their peak.  That would only happen if you were fully driving all your devices at the exact same time.I don't know for sure, but I'd guess that the bigger the power supply (in terms of wattage), the more power it consumes and the more heat it generates.The problem with the cheap power supply's is that they use low quality components and generate dirty power, with lots of spikes and variances.  A better power supply will do a better job, but unless it is real high-end, most don't include power conditioning.  And just because a power supply is 500 watts, doesn't mean it is better than a 350 watt one.

#25 OFFLINE   NRD

NRD

    Message Mogul

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 490 posts

Posted 22 August 2004 - 05:32 PM

As I've stated over and over, wattage is not the only concern.  Buying a 500w power supply that delivers 14 amps max  to +12v is going to be a problem.As a power supply runs, it tends to deliver less power not more, thus decreasing your headroom.  A power supply that is close to capacity will work harder, be less efficient, generate more heat, and have a shorter lifespan.Ever hear the saying "penny wise, dollar foolish"? Power consumption for PC components is increasing, not decreasing.  You will not be "wasting" you're money by exceeding your requirements. You will be ensuring that the PS bought today will easily meet your future requirements, not to mention stability for your current setup.Again, to spend $90+ on a motherboard, $120+ on a processor, $100+ on Ram, $250+ for optical and hardrives then decide to spend $10-20 for a power supply is illogical.Reading the following article may make things a bit clearer.http://www.extremeov...ly_Guide_1.html




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users