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And Again: MORE DRM that breaks your machine


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#1 OFFLINE   Specmon

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 04:03 PM

The last wave of the DRM exploits of Starforce is just ebbing away in the Press and now this!

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Brazilian mega-star Marisa Monte's new CDs from EMI ("Infinito Particular" and "Universo ao Meu Redor") come with DRM that can't be uninstalled, and requires you to "agree" to a contract that isn't published in Portuguese. Even if you disagree, the malware is installed. The DRM blocks you from playing the CD on Linux and MacOS, and from loading it onto an iPod. This, just as the Brazilian government has launched a Computers for All initiative to distribute 1,000,000 Linux PCs, seems particularly contemptuous of the Brazilian people. Ronaldo sez,
the rest of the story: EMI releases Brazilian DRM CDs that totally hose their customersHow much of this crap are we gonna put up with? :icon8: And how much easier will Vista make it for companies like EMI and Sony to hose our rights and our machines? :thumbsup:  B)

#2 OFFLINE   epp_b

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Posted 26 March 2006 - 06:16 PM

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How much of this crap are we gonna put up with?
The question more likely: how much does it take until people who are too ignorant/lazy/stupid to actually realize that it shouldn't be this way?

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And how much easier will Vista make it for companies like EMI and Sony to hose our rights and our machines?
With TC/TPM/NGSCB and EFI...frighteningly easy.

#3 OFFLINE   Marsden11

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 12:21 AM

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And how much easier will Vista make it for companies like EMI and Sony to hose our rights and our machines?
So you are saying Microsoft put the DRM code on the Brazilian CD?Why is it all the blame is placed on the media companies when we would not have this issue if the peoples of the world respected fair use and did not engage in illegal file sharing?But no... the companies are evil and it is now my responsibility to do whatever I like in order to break them.Sorry folks, but this attitude will just increase the draconian measures already in place. It would be refreshing for humans to stand up and admit their guilt instead of always looking to blame their behavior on greedy evil business.

#4 OFFLINE   havnblast

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 03:28 AM

so everyone has to suffer cause of the pirates?  the pirates are the ones not suffering, the ones that are responsible are being punished.  just take a look at what happened with the sony ordeal.if you honestly think they are gonna wipe out pirates than your delusional. before you go off on humans not being responsible take a look around and you will see that a large chunk of the population is.i will not support these software companies any more than i support drug dealers.  it's abuse to the innocent

#5 OFFLINE   Marsden11

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 05:36 AM

I'm far from delusional... but let's be crystal clear, it is the pirates that put us in this DRM boat... They rung the bell and once a bell is rung it can't be un-rung...So the needs of the few outweighed the needs of the many... with the "free" software movement and the like, is it any wonder?

#6 OFFLINE   LilBambi

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 10:41 AM

It is the true pirates who make money on stealing other people's property that is the problem.I say go after them and let people who just wish to have fair use of what they buy -- hardware, software, music, movies, whatever -- have the fair use of what they buy.The general population is not responsible, nor should they be held  responsible (ie, having their systems not function as they should) for what pirates do.If corporate and government entities turn everyone who wants fair use of what they buy into criminals where will the government and corporations be then?And what kind of society would they be responsible for creating when they do such an unthinkable thing.Our founding fathers has much to say about this type of abuse of the citizenry of a country....and none of it good.
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#7 OFFLINE   epp_b

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 11:43 AM

Well said, LilBambi!

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Why is it all the blame is placed on the media companies when we would not have this issue if the peoples of the world respected fair use and did not engage in illegal file sharing?
You seem to believe that DRM actually has something to do with piracy.  In software maybe.   But this is no excuse for oppressing the public for the actions of a few so-called pirates.Everywhere else, it has nothing to do with piracy and everything to do anti-competitive market lock-in.  Just look at Apple and all their iCrap.  Once you have a library full of purchased music from the iTMS, you have no choice but to use the iPod for playing that music.  What happens when your iPod dies?  Want to buy that cheaper portable audio player that you would prefer to have?  Too bad!  You're stuck with loosing hundreds of dollars in music or buying another iPod sucker. :D

Edited by epp_b, 27 March 2006 - 11:44 AM.


#8 OFFLINE   lewmur

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 11:53 AM

View PostMarsden11, on Mar 27 2006, 06:36 AM, said:

I'm far from delusional... but let's be crystal clear, it is the pirates that put us in this DRM boat... They rung the bell and once a bell is rung it can't be un-rung...So the needs of the few outweighed the needs of the many... with the "free" software movement and the like, is it any wonder?
It isn't a question of "need."  It is a question of *RIGHTS.*  It is the *RIGHTS* of the many that are being abused by those with POLITICAL CLOUT.  And it is the media companies and M$ who are trying to "unring the bell" by promoting DRM.  DRM *does not* stop pirates.  It merely interfers with LIGITIMATE use.Let's face it.  The Internet itself is the "bell that can't be unrung."  All it takes is one person to tap the audio out from a sound card to "re-record" any piece of music and then place a copy on the net.  No amount of DRM can stop it.But that isn't the point. The point is that these companies are *stealing* control of people PC's *without* legal permission.  And, any judge that says the "small print" in a EULA  gives them that permisssion, should be impeached and then disbarred.

#9 OFFLINE   epp_b

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 11:56 AM

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Let's face it. The Internet itself is the "bell that can't be unrung." All it takes is one person to tap the audio out from a sound card to "re-record" any piece of music and then place a copy on the net. No amount of DRM can stop it.
Enter the "Analog Hole".  The end of technology and innovation as we know it. :'(Nonetheless, lewmur, your points of legality are absolutely correct!

Edited by epp_b, 27 March 2006 - 11:57 AM.


#10 OFFLINE   lewmur

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 12:31 PM

View Postepp_b, on Mar 27 2006, 12:56 PM, said:

Enter the "Analog Hole".  The end of technology and innovation as we know it. :'(Nonetheless, lewmur, your points of legality are absolutely correct!
I know about the "Analog Hole" legislation and it is just another example of politicians having no concept of technology.  What they are proposing is utter nonsense.  Anyone with the least bit of technical knowhow can get around any such scheme with ease.  Again, it won't do a thing to stop the pirates.  It will just create jobs for more lawyers.

#11 OFFLINE   epp_b

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 01:39 PM

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It will just create jobs for more lawyers.
...and more convoluted work-arounds for legitimate consumers.

#12 OFFLINE   Marsden11

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 01:49 PM

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The point is that these companies are *stealing* control of people PC's *without* legal permission.
Please offer proof that I have no control over my PC and what I run on it...

#13 OFFLINE   Specmon

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 02:01 PM

....uhfor example... here?Original web page that this topic is about??You put a CD in your machine, see a EULA that you decline and the DRM installs anyway???

Edited by Specmon, 27 March 2006 - 02:02 PM.


#14 OFFLINE   lewmur

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 02:58 PM

View PostMarsden11, on Mar 27 2006, 02:49 PM, said:

Please offer proof that I have no control over my PC and what I run on it...
Climb off your highhorse.  The very name implies it.

#15 OFFLINE   Marsden11

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 02:59 PM

I'm not familar with her or her music. So how does this affect me personally on my computers?Is this DRM found on ALL audio CDs sold all over the globe?I have over 500+ audio CDs and NONE of them have this on them. Again, how does this affect me personally?

Edited by Marsden11, 27 March 2006 - 03:00 PM.


#16 OFFLINE   Marsden11

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 03:10 PM

I don't have to purchase another CD and with over 500+ titles to choose from this is such a non-issue. I can do whatever I want with them. I can rip MP3s, or WMAs and play them on my home audio system or in any of my vehicles...None of you have offered any contrete proof that I have lost any of my fair use rights...

#17 OFFLINE   epp_b

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 03:24 PM

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None of you have offered any contrete proof that I have lost any of my fair use rights...
You haven't lost them yet, but DRM like this sure makes exercising fair use a whole lot more unnecessarily complicated.  It's really quite ridiculous.

#18 OFFLINE   LilBambi

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 03:31 PM

Just a few words for your consideration:Frog in pot of water, pot on stove, heat slowly applied, frog lulled into thinking all is well because temperature comes up slowly, frog dies.EOL.
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#19 OFFLINE   epp_b

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 03:32 PM

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EOL
EOF B)

#20 OFFLINE   LilBambi

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 03:52 PM

LOL! ... Although I was thinking more along the lines of the movie Tron and the repeated EOL (End Of Line) from the Master Controller computer. B)
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#21 OFFLINE   zlim

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 05:10 PM

I had my cousin's computer here for 10 days, cleaning out things including a Sony rootkit. Sony has two schemes: Media Max and XCP (maybe since March of last year on numerous purchased CDs). Media Max is fairly easy to remove. XCP is a horror. Put a music CD in your computer to listen to. You get a EULA after the rootkit is installed and if you decline the EULA, the rootkit is still installed on the computer. Source: http://itpolicy.prin...sonydrm-ext.pdfthank goodness some people ar Princeton wrote a 27 page paper. On pages 20 and 21, there are explicit directions for how to deactivate it and then how to remove the registry entries.As has been said numerous times before, "honest people are getting hurt". My solution: I either never play music CDs in computers or switch to linux when I want to listen to a music CD.
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#22 OFFLINE   Specmon

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 05:50 PM

Here's  David Berlind, executive editor, ZDNet talking about DRM:

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Description: ZDNet Executive Editor David Berlind suggests that CRAP or Content, Restriction, Annulment, and Protection, is a catchier phrase than DRM - Digital Rights Management. Why does he think this technology is crap? Once you've bought music or other content to play on one device, it won't play on any other device because of the proprietary layer of CRAP.
Several more paragraphs with a link to his video presentation[rant]Is nice that you have all yours and need no more.  I guess all the media companies in the world should pack up and go home?  Marsden has all he needs?What are you going to do in ten years when your current hardware wears out, and ANYTHING you can buy won't play your old media cause it doesn't have the right DRM flag???This IS where this CRAP is leading! [/rant]  B)

Edited by Specmon, 27 March 2006 - 05:58 PM.


#23 OFFLINE   epp_b

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 06:28 PM

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What are you going to do in ten years when your current hardware wears out, and ANYTHING you can buy won't play your old media cause it doesn't have the right DRM flag???
That's exactly what the RIAAs and MPAAs of the world want to happen.  They'll just use the excuse that -- whoop -- technology changes, buddy, ya gotta keep with the times.  Cough up the cash for the content you've legally purchased two, three or ten times already.

Edited by epp_b, 27 March 2006 - 06:29 PM.


#24 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 07:05 PM

has been happening for years with ms os's.you first pay for the content in the initial purchase price of the pc, then if you wish to have a full copy of the os, you again pay for the os at the store, poof! $200 poorer.
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#25 OFFLINE   LilBambi

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Posted 27 March 2006 - 07:10 PM

LOL! David Berlind definitely came up with a good one there!I love the last paragraph:

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And guess what? If you try to connect these three universes*, they don't connect. Doesn't happen. Sorry. Nada. This music won't play here. This music won't play here. And this music won't play here. That to me is a problem. That's why I say that all these devices, for example, the iPods that you buy out in the stores today, are a load of CRAP. I'm not going to buy any of this CRAP. Stop buying this CRAP. Don't buy any technology that has CRAP in it, because all it's going to do is make it impossible for you to take the content that you're paying good money for and play it anywhere you want.
* insert any DRM 'universe' you want :hysterical:Very true Temmu, sadly very true.
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