WINS and NetBOIS concept

[zillah]

Are WINS and NetBois , both of them responsible to perform computer name to IP address (name resolution) ?I read these two links:http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/W/WINS.htmlShort for Windows Internet Naming Service, a system that determines the IP address associated with a particular network computer.http://www.computerperformance.co.uk/w2k3/...s/WINS_Home.htmThe key technical difference is that WINS servers use NetBIOS names whereas DNS relies on hostname. NetBIOS over TCP/IP is the network component that performs computer name to IP address mapping, name resolution.

[zillah]

Thanks Temmu

wins is for older networks that do run netbios

Did you mean that wins replaced the old networks which have ued netbios.(my conculsion based on "thus overcomming the limitation of netbios")

the wins server creates a list of pc's and their ip addresses - a wins server can server more than one network, thus overcomming the limitation of netbios

Does than mean , wins is routable ?

netbios is a quick way to set up a small network. zero configuration

Whay did you mean by zero configuration ?NetBois is layer 5 (session layer) what about wins ?If I want to do a test ,within my LAN can I use only netbois without using TCP/IP (i.e.private ip addresses ) ?

[zillah]

Could you see this:http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3833/netbios0dx.jpg1- Is computer name similar to NetBIOS name all the time ?2- NetBOIS name significant locally, and hostname significant globally,,,Am I right ?3- If I want to reach any PC at work (say A) form my labtop at home through internet , I used to use a public ip address which was assigned to that PC (A). Now if I want to use name for a PC at work (nicedell) instead of the public ip adderess , what should I do:A- Can I use the name that appeared in the link above (nicedell) instead of public ip address when I want to reach the PC via internet ?B- I have to modify this file ((%systemroot%\system32\drivers\etc\host)) on my laptop to bind public ip address with the name (nicedell)

Edited February 28, 2006 by zillah

[Peachy]

1- Is computer name similar to NetBIOS name all the time ?

In this context computer name is the same as the NetBIOS name and is the host name if the computer is allowed to register itself in a DNS zone file. This is because in a DNS server zone file you can specify as many host names for the same IP address as you want. The NetBIOS name is the unique identifier on a Windows network. If you have two Windows computers with identical NetBIOS names, at least one of the Windows computers will complain.

2- NetBOIS name significant locally, and hostname significant globally,,,Am I right ?

More or less, but what is the significance? In other words, why is this an important distinction?

3- If I want to reach any PC at work (say A) form my labtop at home through internet , I used to use a public ip address which was assigned to that PC (A). Now if I want to use name for a PC at work (nicedell) instead of the public ip adderess , what should I do:A- Can I use the name that appeared in the link above (nicedell) instead of public ip address when I want to reach the PC via internet ?B- I have to modify this file ((%systemroot%\system32\drivers\etc\host)) on my laptop to bind public ip address with the name (nicedell)

A- Only if that hostname is part of the Fully-Qualified Domain Name and listed in a public DNS server or reachable via recursion to a downstream DNS server.B - Yes. The host file is typically consulted first in a Windows computer before the DNS is checked. This would work.

[Marsden11]

NetBIOS was developed in the mid-1980s by IBM, Sytek, and Microsoft. Its purpose was to allow PCs to communicate over a local area network, especially IBM's 3mbps Ethernet-like cable service as well as IBM's later Token Ring LANs. It allows NetBIOS-aware applications to communicate regardless of the underlying infrastructure. For example, on the older Windows PCs, you have the choice of installing NetBEUI (NetBIOS raw over Ethernet) or NetBIOS over Novell's IPX. Yet another option is NetBIOS over TCP/IP. WINS is just a component of the NetBIOS over TCP/IP implementation. It is not used with NetBIOS over any other transport. Contrast WINS with DNS WINS is similar to DNS: both systems will resolve a name into an IP address. DNS solves the general Internet naming problem, WINS is designed only for NetBIOS names. It is only used in the cases where NetBIOS applications (such as Windows File and Print Services) need to talk to each other. However, Microsoft makes "helper" services. If you need a DNS name but one cannot be found, Windows will lookup the name in the WINS server. Similarly, if a NetBIOS name cannot be found in the WINS server, Windows will attempt to lookup the name in the DNS server. This means that while WINS and DNS have completely different heritages that know nothing of each other, they effectively become interchangeable. WINS vs. no-WINS WINS isn't necessary for all communication. NetBIOS has been designed around a "broadcast" mechanism. The default Windows behavior is to simply broadcast information on the local network. Installing a WINS server (and configuring the clients to use it) will reduce broadcast traffic. Also, since broadcasts do not travel across subnets, WINS may be the only way that two distant machines can find each other.

[zillah]

The NetBIOS name is the unique identifier on a Windows network. If you have two Windows computers with identical NetBIOS names, at least one of the Windows computers will complain.

You meant these two computers will complain if they are within the same LAN,,,,didn't you ?

why is this an important distinction?

Because my understanding that Netbois should be unique locally not globally.

B - Yes. The host file is typically consulted first in a Windows computer before the DNS is checked. This would work.

Does that mean I can implement quoted above without caring about point A (Only if that hostname is part of the Fully-Qualified Domain Name and listed in a public DNS server or reachable via recursion to a downstream DNS server) ?

[Peachy]

You meant these two computers will complain if they are within the same LAN,,,,didn't you ?Because my understanding that Netbois should be unique locally not globally.Does that mean I can implement quoted above without caring about point A (Only if that hostname is part of the Fully-Qualified Domain Name and listed in a public DNS server or reachable via recursion to a downstream DNS server) ?

Yes.

[zillah]

B - Yes. The host file is typically consulted first in a Windows computer before the DNS is checked. This would work.

In this case if I have to modify this file ((C\system32\drivers\etc\host)) on my laptop to bind public ip address (say 196.230.167.24) with the name (nicedell),,,,I can access that laptop form a different a PC via internet (WAN) by typing for instance :Telnet nicedell will give same result as Telent 196.230.167.24ping nicedell will give same result as ping 196.230.167.24tracert nicedell will give same result as tracert 196.230.167.24If any one on the net has got same name (nicedell),,,,,wouldn't be a conflict ? Edited March 1, 2006 by zillah

[Peachy]

I think you are misunderstanding the use of the host file. It does not make available your NetBIOS name to the Internet publicly. For example, if I have two computers, a laptop A with public IP address of 192.168.0.1 and a server at work B with public IP address of 172.168.16.2 (ignoring the fact that these are NOT public IP addresses, but just to illustrate a point) and I put a host entry in A that might look this:

172.168.16.2	  webserver

where this is the public address of B, it means when I'm using A I can telnet webserver and reach B. The server at work may have a DNS entry of:

172.168.16.2	www.server-at-work.com

but instead of typing in telnet www.server-at-work.com I type in telnet webserver. Both resolve to telnet 172.168.16.2.If your B computer had a host entry of:

172.168.16.2	  webserver

then it would refer to itself. If the entry was:

192.168.0.1	  webserver

it would refer to ANow if I had a home computer C with IP address of 10.10.10.1 that you know nothing about but I put a host entry of:

10.10.10.1	 webserver

I would never reach your computer B and you'd never reach my computer C unless you had an entry that also was:

10.10.10.1	 webserver

The host file is a name resolution method that does not rely on DNS. It is used only locally by the computer that has entries other than the default which is:

127.0.0.1	  localhost

[zillah]

Thanks Peachy1-

I think you are misunderstanding the use of the host file. It does not make available your NetBIOS name to the Internet publicly.

Nope, I did not mean that. Therefore I said in post #7 : "Because my understanding that Netbois should be unique locally not globally."2-

For example, if I have two computers, a laptop A with public IP address of 192.168.0.1 and a server at work B with public IP address of 172.168.16.2 (ignoring the fact that these are NOT public T server B at work IP addresses, but just to illustrate a point)

The server B at work, Can I assume that the laptop A is at your home, since they have different publical network addresses ?3-

It is used only locally by the computer that has entries other than the default which is:

Correct me my understanding, locally means: it uses local entries that are availabe (configured) within the host file, rather than rely on a DNS entry. Locally does not mean that it resolves the hostname within the local network (LAN)4-

but instead of typing in telnet www.server-at-work.com I type in telnet webserver. Both resolve to telnet 172.168.16.2.

You meant from the Laptop A I typed in : telnet webserver,,,,,,,or I can type in : telnet 172.168.16.2,,,, Edited March 2, 2006 by zillah

[Marsden11]

If any one on the net has got same name (nicedell),,,,,wouldn't be a conflict ?

NoHost files or Net-BIOS are only local to your internal network. DNS is global and only resolvers the IP address of let's say 223.48.124.34 to mycompany.comYou could have a million "nicedells" on the net... they ALL have a unique MAC address.

[zillah]

Thanks Marsden11

Host files or Net-BIOS are only local to your internal network

1- That means I can not use the scenario that i have raised in post #2 ?2- What is the difference between host files and Net-BIOS if both of them are only local (within the same LAN)3- DNS concept is clear to me Edited March 2, 2006 by zillah

[Peachy]

Basically the host file is used to override a DNS lookup. If for some reason you wish to point a known Fully Qualified Domain Name to another computer you can use a host file entry to do that. Also, if your DNS server goes down but you still have Internet access, you can add host entries to temporarily do name resolution, otherwise you have to use IP addresses.

[zillah]

Thanks Peachy.

you can add host entries to temporarily do name resolution

. My understanding (may be I am wrong) to Marsden11 in his reply that we can not use hostfile name through WAN.

[zillah]

Thanks TemmuThe reason I raised my thread here, to see the possibilty of using this file : c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts, and what is the difference between this file and Net-BOIS,,,,,,I am aware of DNS and its function. But as you know if I want to do test (experiment) with my PCs which are in different locations, since I do not any Fully Qualified Domain Name, I was thing to use host file.Now if I do not use DNS (since I do not have it) can I use (c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts) via WAN ?

[JackR]

NetBEUI (NetBIOS raw over Ethernet).

NetBEUI=NetBios Extended User Interface.

[Peachy]

Thanks TemmuThe reason I raised my thread here, to see the possibilty of using this file : c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts, and what is the difference between this file and Net-BOIS,,,,,,I am aware of DNS and its function. But as you know if I want to do test (experiment) with my PCs which are in different locations, since I do not any Fully Qualified Domain Name, I was thing to use host file.Now if I do not use DNS (since I do not have it) can I use (c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts) via WAN ?

No, you can't rely on the Host file to provide name resolution for remote computers on any network WAN or LAN. The host file only provides a name resolution service for the local computer. Each computer would have to have its own Host file to do its name resolution. That's why DNS was invented: host files became too cumbersome once more than 4 computers are networked, image one million!zillah, have you heard of dynamic DNS services? Basically if you don't administer your own public DNS server you can use these services to setup up your own FQDN. I used to use one for creating a FQDN for a dynamic home DSL service so that I could use a VPN tunnel to my home computer. Your choices of FQDN are not as flexible since your domain name can't be unique to you, but at least you can specify a host name that you want.

[zillah]

however, if you're equipment is all on the same network, say the 192.168.1.xxx network, for example, then simply install netbios as your network protocol and you're done. no tcpip, ipx or anything else needed.

Since my thread concentrated on the name resolution rather than ip address, my understanding to the above quoted is :If I have got at home PCs (2003 and XP),,,I have to install NetBOIS protocol on those PCs , and this NetBOIS protocol will do the job for a name resolution,,,,,,Am I right ?But within WinOS I have got another option called " NetBOIS computer name", do I need to use that one with NetBOIS protocol as well or NetBOIS protocol will do the job of resolution, without using "NetBOIS computer name" ?

No, you can't rely on the Host file to provide name resolution for remote computers on any network WAN or LAN. The host file only provides a name resolution service for the local computer.

You meant by "local computer" a computer that has file host installed on it, you did not mean by "local computer" a computer within a Local Area Network,,,,didn't you ? If this is the case, that means I can not use host file even through the LAN (as you said :host files became too cumbersome once more than 4 computers are networked),,,,,but still NetBOIS can handle the name resolution for 4 computers and more within the same LAN Edited March 3, 2006 by zillah

[Marsden11]

You meant by "local computer" a computer that has file host installed on it, you did not mean by "local computer" a computer within a Local Area Network,,,,didn't you ? If this is the case, that means I can not use host file even through the LAN (as you said :host files became too cumbersome once more than 4 computers are networked),,,,,but still NetBOIS can handle the name resolution for 4 computers and more within the same LAN.

A "local computer" is a computer on your internal network or LAN. It can have a host file or it may not. It makes no difference to calling a paticular machine a "local" one.Let's say you have a LAN with 5 machines. Each of those 5 machines has a host file. The host file on machine #1 only works for machine #1. The host file on machine #2 only works for machine #2. The host file on machine #3 only works for machine #3. The host file on machine #4 only works for machine #4. The host file on machine #5 only works for machine #5.It does not matter how many machines you have on your LAN with their individual host files. 1500 machines with individual host files will not run any slower than a small LAN with 5 machines with host files.Host files do NOT communicate with each other.NetBIOS does not in itself support a routing mechanism so applications communicating on a wide area network (WAN) must use another "transport mechanism" (such as TCP/IP) rather than or in addition to NetBIOS. In your situation, home and work are a WAN and not a LAN.

[lewmur]

Since my thread concentrated on the name resolution rather than ip address, my understanding to the above quoted is :If I have got at home PCs (2003 and XP),,,I have to install NetBOIS protocol on those PCs , and this NetBOIS protocol will do the job for a name resolution,,,,,,Am I right ?But within WinOS I have got another option called " NetBOIS computer name", do I need to use that one with NetBOIS protocol as well or NetBOIS protocol will do the job of resolution, without using "NetBOIS computer name" ?You meant by "local computer" a computer that has file host installed on it, you did not mean by "local computer" a computer within a Local Area Network,,,,didn't you ? If this is the case, that means I can not use host file even through the LAN (as you said :host files became too cumbersome once more than 4 computers are networked),,,,,but still NetBOIS can handle the name resolution for 4 computers and more within the same LAN

If you have two computer connected *directly* to the Internet, IOW no router, then both computers will have WAN IP addresses and you could use the host files on each machine to point to the other. You would, of course, have to tell the firewall in each computer to allow all trafic from the other IP address. (Of course you'd also have to have firewall software capable of doing this.)However, if the two computers are each part of a their own LAN, with a router connecting them to the net, then you would have to use VPN to connect them because neither would have a WAN address. Why don't you just set up a VPN and forget it?

[zillah]

I am going to explain the scenario again, in order to make it more clear.Case1 [Via WAN] 1- I have got my laptop at home connected to net through dial up , with ip address 194.230.67.5.2- I have got my Desktop at work (different location) connected to net through dial up as well , with ip address 200.6.60.63- I did not configure any DNS with my laptop at home. I did not configure any DNS with my desktop as well.4- lapto and desktop can ping each other.5- if I added this entry to this file c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts, on my laptop200.6.60.6 work6- If I added this entry to the file c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts, on my desktop194.230.67.6 home7- Can I use this command form my laptop,,,,,,,,,ping work 8- Can I use this command form my desktop,,,,,,,ping home9- For the testing purpose and for this scenario do not envolve the explaination about DNS,,,,leave DNS away.Case2 [Via LAN] 1- I have got my laptop at home connected to Linksys router, with ip address 192.168.1.652- I have got my Desktop at home connected to Linksys router , with ip address 192.168.1.1003- I did not configure any DNS at home.4- lapto and desktop can ping each other.5- if I added this entry to this file c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts, on my laptop192.168.1.100 Desktop6- If I added this entry to the file c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts, on my desktop192.168.1.65 laptop7- Can I use this command form my laptop,,,,,,,,,ping Desktop 8- Can I use this command form my desktop,,,,,,,ping laptop9- For the testing purpose and for this scenario do not envolve the explaination about DNS,,,,leave DNS away.

[Marsden11]

Case 1 WANYesYesCase 2 LANYesYesThe hosts file can be pretty powerful... similar to how a lot of spyware works.

Edited March 4, 2006 by Marsden11

[lewmur]

lewmur, zillah said no fully qualified domain names, so... the pc's aren't on the internet.but, pc's on the internet might be able to use the hosts file if one user was willing to keep up with the other user's pc's ever-shifting ip address (as most home users don't have static ip addresses.)true, a vpn is a great way to securely connect pc's across the internet.

They don't really shift that often if you leave the modem on. I've had the same IP address for months at a time. Of course, it does depend on your provider. Edited March 4, 2006 by lewmur

[zillah]

Marsden11

Case1 [Via WAN] 1- I have got my laptop at home connected to net through dial up , with ip address 194.230.67.5.2- I have got my Desktop at work (different location) connected to net through dial up as well , with ip address 200.6.60.63- I did not configure any DNS with my laptop at home. I did not configure any DNS with my desktop as well.4- lapto and desktop can ping each other.5- if I added this entry to this file c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts, on my laptop200.6.60.6 work6- If I added this entry to the file c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts, on my desktop194.230.67.6 home7- Can I use this command form my laptop,,,,,,,,,ping work 8- Can I use this command form my desktop,,,,,,,ping home9- For the testing purpose and for this scenario do not envolve the explaination about DNS,,,,leave DNS away.

Case 1 WANYesYes

On a WAN if another computer has the same name "home" or "work",,,Doesn't be a conflict ?

[Marsden11]

NoRemember xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx = "home"A specific IP address = HOME or WORKThere has to be a host file on both ends of the WAN...Every machine regardless of what end it is on has to have a unique IP address.

[zillah]

I did this real test:1- Laptop connected to linksys ADSL router the private ip address for my laptop was 192.168.1.66, the public ip adderess for the ADSL router was 86.29.220.5.,,,,netbois name forlaptop is LatitudeD600 2- Desktop P4 connected to Dialup modem (noT ADSL router) the public ip address for desktop was 214.40.253.114, netbois name for Desktop was DesktopP43- I added this line to the host files resides on laptop, pointing to Desktop:214.40.253.114 P4---------------------ip address for Desktop.Then form my laptop I did these tests below:Microsoft Windows [Version 5.2.3790]© Copyright 1985-2003 Microsoft Corp.A- C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>ping 214.40.253.114Pinging 213.42.254.113 with 32 bytes of data:Reply from 214.40.253.114: bytes=32 time=25ms TTL=248Reply from 214.40.253.114: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=248Reply from 214.40.253.114: bytes=32 time=26ms TTL=248Reply from 214.40.253.114: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=248Ping statistics for 214.40.253.114: Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 24ms, Maximum = 26ms, Average = 24msB- C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>ping P4Pinging P4 [214.40.253.114] with 32 bytes of data:Reply from 214.40.253.114: bytes=32 time=131ms TTL=115Reply from 214.40.253.114: bytes=32 time=129ms TTL=115Reply from 214.40.253.114: bytes=32 time=129ms TTL=115Reply from 214.40.253.114: bytes=32 time=131ms TTL=115Ping statistics for 214.40.253.114: Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 129ms, Maximum = 131ms, Average = 130msC- C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>hostnameLatitudeD600D- C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>ping LatitudeD600Pinging LatitudeD600 [192.168.1.66] with 32 bytes of data:Reply from 192.168.1.66: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128Reply from 192.168.1.66: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128Reply from 192.168.1.66: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128Reply from 192.168.1.66: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128Ping statistics for 192.168.1.66: Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms4- Later on I added this line to the host files resides on Desktop pointing to remote ADSL router:86.29.220.5 linksys---------------------ip address for ADSL router.Then form my Desktop I did these tests below:A- C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>ping 86.29.220.5Pinging 86.29.220.5 with 32 bytes of data:Reply from 86.29.220.5: bytes=32 time=25ms TTL=248Reply from 86.29.220.5: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=248Reply from 86.29.220.5: bytes=32 time=26ms TTL=248Reply from 86.29.220.5: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=248Ping statistics for 86.29.220.5: Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 24ms, Maximum = 26ms, Average = 24msB- C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>ping linksysPinging linksys[86.29.220.5] with 32 bytes of data:Reply from 86.29.220.5: bytes=32 time=131ms TTL=115Reply from 86.29.220.5: bytes=32 time=129ms TTL=115Reply from 86.29.220.5: bytes=32 time=129ms TTL=115Reply from 86.29.220.5: bytes=32 time=131ms TTL=115Ping statistics for 86.29.220.5: Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 129ms, Maximum = 131ms, Average = 130msC- C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>hostnameDesktopP4D- I typed in ip address in the web browser of Desktop, I was able to access GUI for ADSL router.E- I typed in "linksys" in the web browser of Desktop, I was able to access GUI for ADSL router as well.