And Again: MORE DRM that breaks your machine

[Specmon]

The last wave of the DRM exploits of Starforce is just ebbing away in the Press and now this!

Brazilian mega-star Marisa Monte's new CDs from EMI ("Infinito Particular" and "Universo ao Meu Redor") come with DRM that can't be uninstalled, and requires you to "agree" to a contract that isn't published in Portuguese. Even if you disagree, the malware is installed. The DRM blocks you from playing the CD on Linux and MacOS, and from loading it onto an iPod. This, just as the Brazilian government has launched a Computers for All initiative to distribute 1,000,000 Linux PCs, seems particularly contemptuous of the Brazilian people. Ronaldo sez,

the rest of the story: EMI releases Brazilian DRM CDs that totally hose their customers How much of this crap are we gonna put up with? And how much easier will Vista make it for companies like EMI and Sony to hose our rights and our machines?

[epp_b]

How much of this crap are we gonna put up with?

The question more likely: how much does it take until people who are too ignorant/lazy/stupid to actually realize that it shouldn't be this way?

And how much easier will Vista make it for companies like EMI and Sony to hose our rights and our machines?

With TC/TPM/NGSCB and EFI...frighteningly easy.

[Marsden11]

And how much easier will Vista make it for companies like EMI and Sony to hose our rights and our machines?

So you are saying Microsoft put the DRM code on the Brazilian CD?Why is it all the blame is placed on the media companies when we would not have this issue if the peoples of the world respected fair use and did not engage in illegal file sharing?But no... the companies are evil and it is now my responsibility to do whatever I like in order to break them.Sorry folks, but this attitude will just increase the draconian measures already in place. It would be refreshing for humans to stand up and admit their guilt instead of always looking to blame their behavior on greedy evil business.

[havnblast]

so everyone has to suffer cause of the pirates? the pirates are the ones not suffering, the ones that are responsible are being punished. just take a look at what happened with the sony ordeal.if you honestly think they are gonna wipe out pirates than your delusional. before you go off on humans not being responsible take a look around and you will see that a large chunk of the population is.i will not support these software companies any more than i support drug dealers. it's abuse to the innocent

[Marsden11]

I'm far from delusional... but let's be crystal clear, it is the pirates that put us in this DRM boat... They rung the bell and once a bell is rung it can't be un-rung...So the needs of the few outweighed the needs of the many... with the "free" software movement and the like, is it any wonder?

[Guest LilBambi]

It is the true pirates who make money on stealing other people's property that is the problem.I say go after them and let people who just wish to have fair use of what they buy -- hardware, software, music, movies, whatever -- have the fair use of what they buy.The general population is not responsible, nor should they be held responsible (ie, having their systems not function as they should) for what pirates do.If corporate and government entities turn everyone who wants fair use of what they buy into criminals where will the government and corporations be then?And what kind of society would they be responsible for creating when they do such an unthinkable thing.Our founding fathers has much to say about this type of abuse of the citizenry of a country....and none of it good.

[epp_b]

Well said, LilBambi!

Why is it all the blame is placed on the media companies when we would not have this issue if the peoples of the world respected fair use and did not engage in illegal file sharing?

You seem to believe that DRM actually has something to do with piracy. In software maybe. But this is no excuse for oppressing the public for the actions of a few so-called pirates.Everywhere else, it has nothing to do with piracy and everything to do anti-competitive market lock-in. Just look at Apple and all their iCrap. Once you have a library full of purchased music from the iTMS, you have no choice but to use the iPod for playing that music. What happens when your iPod dies? Want to buy that cheaper portable audio player that you would prefer to have? Too bad! You're stuck with loosing hundreds of dollars in music or buying another iPod sucker. Edited March 27, 2006 by epp_b

[lewmur]

I'm far from delusional... but let's be crystal clear, it is the pirates that put us in this DRM boat... They rung the bell and once a bell is rung it can't be un-rung...So the needs of the few outweighed the needs of the many... with the "free" software movement and the like, is it any wonder?

It isn't a question of "need." It is a question of *RIGHTS.* It is the *RIGHTS* of the many that are being abused by those with POLITICAL CLOUT. And it is the media companies and M$ who are trying to "unring the bell" by promoting DRM. DRM *does not* stop pirates. It merely interfers with LIGITIMATE use.Let's face it. The Internet itself is the "bell that can't be unrung." All it takes is one person to tap the audio out from a sound card to "re-record" any piece of music and then place a copy on the net. No amount of DRM can stop it.But that isn't the point. The point is that these companies are *stealing* control of people PC's *without* legal permission. And, any judge that says the "small print" in a EULA gives them that permisssion, should be impeached and then disbarred.

[epp_b]

Let's face it. The Internet itself is the "bell that can't be unrung." All it takes is one person to tap the audio out from a sound card to "re-record" any piece of music and then place a copy on the net. No amount of DRM can stop it.

Enter the "Analog Hole". The end of technology and innovation as we know it. :'(Nonetheless, lewmur, your points of legality are absolutely correct! Edited March 27, 2006 by epp_b

[lewmur]

Enter the "Analog Hole". The end of technology and innovation as we know it. :'(Nonetheless, lewmur, your points of legality are absolutely correct!

I know about the "Analog Hole" legislation and it is just another example of politicians having no concept of technology. What they are proposing is utter nonsense. Anyone with the least bit of technical knowhow can get around any such scheme with ease. Again, it won't do a thing to stop the pirates. It will just create jobs for more lawyers.

[epp_b]

It will just create jobs for more lawyers.

...and more convoluted work-arounds for legitimate consumers.

[Marsden11]

The point is that these companies are *stealing* control of people PC's *without* legal permission.

Please offer proof that I have no control over my PC and what I run on it...

[Specmon]

....uhfor example... here?Original web page that this topic is about??You put a CD in your machine, see a EULA that you decline and the DRM installs anyway???

Edited March 27, 2006 by Specmon

[lewmur]

Please offer proof that I have no control over my PC and what I run on it...

Climb off your highhorse. The very name implies it.

[Marsden11]

I'm not familar with her or her music. So how does this affect me personally on my computers?Is this DRM found on ALL audio CDs sold all over the globe?I have over 500+ audio CDs and NONE of them have this on them. Again, how does this affect me personally?

Edited March 27, 2006 by Marsden11

[Marsden11]

I don't have to purchase another CD and with over 500+ titles to choose from this is such a non-issue. I can do whatever I want with them. I can rip MP3s, or WMAs and play them on my home audio system or in any of my vehicles...None of you have offered any contrete proof that I have lost any of my fair use rights...

[epp_b]

None of you have offered any contrete proof that I have lost any of my fair use rights...

You haven't lost them yet, but DRM like this sure makes exercising fair use a whole lot more unnecessarily complicated. It's really quite ridiculous.

[Guest LilBambi]

Just a few words for your consideration:Frog in pot of water, pot on stove, heat slowly applied, frog lulled into thinking all is well because temperature comes up slowly, frog dies.EOL.

[epp_b]

EOL

EOF

[Guest LilBambi]

LOL! ... Although I was thinking more along the lines of the movie Tron and the repeated EOL (End Of Line) from the Master Controller computer.

[zlim]

I had my cousin's computer here for 10 days, cleaning out things including a Sony rootkit. Sony has two schemes: Media Max and XCP (maybe since March of last year on numerous purchased CDs). Media Max is fairly easy to remove. XCP is a horror. Put a music CD in your computer to listen to. You get a EULA after the rootkit is installed and if you decline the EULA, the rootkit is still installed on the computer. Source: http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/pub/sonydrm-ext.pdfthank goodness some people ar Princeton wrote a 27 page paper. On pages 20 and 21, there are explicit directions for how to deactivate it and then how to remove the registry entries.As has been said numerous times before, "honest people are getting hurt". My solution: I either never play music CDs in computers or switch to linux when I want to listen to a music CD.

[Specmon]

Here's David Berlind, executive editor, ZDNet talking about DRM:

Description: ZDNet Executive Editor David Berlind suggests that CRAP or Content, Restriction, Annulment, and Protection, is a catchier phrase than DRM - Digital Rights Management. Why does he think this technology is crap? Once you've bought music or other content to play on one device, it won't play on any other device because of the proprietary layer of CRAP.

Several more paragraphs with a link to his video presentation[rant]Is nice that you have all yours and need no more. I guess all the media companies in the world should pack up and go home? Marsden has all he needs?What are you going to do in ten years when your current hardware wears out, and ANYTHING you can buy won't play your old media cause it doesn't have the right DRM flag???This IS where this CRAP is leading! [/rant] Edited March 27, 2006 by Specmon

[epp_b]

What are you going to do in ten years when your current hardware wears out, and ANYTHING you can buy won't play your old media cause it doesn't have the right DRM flag???

That's exactly what the RIAAs and MPAAs of the world want to happen. They'll just use the excuse that -- whoop -- technology changes, buddy, ya gotta keep with the times. Cough up the cash for the content you've legally purchased two, three or ten times already. Edited March 27, 2006 by epp_b

[Guest LilBambi]

LOL! David Berlind definitely came up with a good one there!I love the last paragraph:

And guess what? If you try to connect these three universes*, they don't connect. Doesn't happen. Sorry. Nada. This music won't play here. This music won't play here. And this music won't play here. That to me is a problem. That's why I say that all these devices, for example, the iPods that you buy out in the stores today, are a load of CRAP. I'm not going to buy any of this CRAP. Stop buying this CRAP. Don't buy any technology that has CRAP in it, because all it's going to do is make it impossible for you to take the content that you're paying good money for and play it anywhere you want.

* insert any DRM 'universe' you want :hysterical:Very true Temmu, sadly very true.

[Marsden11]

you first pay for the content in the initial purchase price of the pc, then if you wish to have a full copy of the os, you again pay for the os at the store, poof! $200 poorer.

Simply not true...I only paid once for XP on my laptop. It came with a full copy of XP Pro and not the recovery CD that many get. I then traded up to XP Pro x64 for free from MS.I have to say the amount of mis-information on Scot's Newsletter Forum has recently gone through the roof. And where unfounded hysteria rules the day over proven facts.Sony tries an experiment which fails completely and suddenly all audio disks are suspect. Some Brazilian gal's music label tries the same thing in a market I don't listen to or buy in and suddenly we have no rights to our music.There has been absolutely zero proof offered that demonstrates that I personally have lost the rights to my CD collection.Lots of "it's coming", and "very soon now" and "you'll be sorry" etc., etc.Everyone keeps citing these as examples that represent an across the board change to my rights but despite all this doom and gloom I still have my rights. None of you has proven otherwise!

[havnblast]

Just cause it hasn't effected you doesn't mean it exists - your basing everything on yourself when if fact people are being effected, look in the tech newsPeople have given plenty of example of people being effected

Edited March 28, 2006 by havnblast

[epp_b]

I think havnblast explained things well-enough there....but there is something that I must respond to...

Sony tries an experiment which fails completely and suddenly all audio disks are suspect.

Experiment?!? To call such a vicious attack on PCs world-wide something as simple as an "experiment" is an incredibly gross understatement. This was a corporate attack on innocent consumers as punishment for the crimes of the few (pirates).

Everyone keeps citing these as examples that represent an across the board change to my rights but despite all this doom and gloom I still have my rights.

The thing is, here, that it sets a precedent. Who knows what they will try next. Edited March 28, 2006 by epp_b

[Marsden11]

And our Sun may go dark tomorrow night at 6:23 PM EST.Should I go out and party like there is not going to be a Wednesday?You all are flipping out over stuff that does not exist across the board. The sky is falling... oh please...

Just cause it hasn't effected you doesn't mean it exists - your basing everything on yourself when if fact people are being effected, look in the tech news

I bought an HP Compaq so I guess all the folks who purchased them got screwed but I didn't...?How about some links to this breaaking news headlines showing the entire computing public getting hosed by the OEM manufactures. Everyone I know who did not get a full copy of XP have demanded a full copy and recieved it from their respective manufactures.

[havnblast]

I never said they "all", your failing to read what is written - Just cause you didn't, doesn't mean others aren't. I know people that were unable to get a full copy of winxp. Wow, imagin that huh?I could turn around and say so prove everyone that bought an HP didn't get screwed. Your not going to find that link.It's in the news and if you fail to acknowledge it, so be it. No matter what anyone posts your gonna continue to say it didn't effect me. I know people it did/does effect and I know people that are not effected - that is the point.

[Guest LilBambi]

Microsoft: No substitutes for Trusted Platform Module allowed

In response to one of the questions raised during last week's Vista conference call with Microsoft, a spokesperson for the Redmond, WA-based company has informed me that in order for users to get the full benefits of the Trusted Platform Module(TPM)-reliant features in Windows Vista such as Secure Startup and full volume encryption, they will absolutely have to have a TPM that's compliant with version 1.2b of the Trusted Computing Group's (TCG) TPM specification (Uh oh. The TCG's site doesn't even list such a version of the specification). In other words, not only will existing systems not be able to be upgraded with a TPM module, another hardware-based security token like a SmartCard cannot be used as a substitute. Referring to ways in which an encrypted volume might be recoverable using a system other than the the original one that stored data in it, a Microsoft spokesperson wrote the following to me via e-mail: We are looking at scenarios that allow the recovery key to be stored on a removable storage device for Windows Vista. However, Smartcard storage of tokens for full volume encryption isn’t in the plan for Windows Vista. The TPM requirement should give system buyers — particularly those in enterprises — a reason to pause before burning their end of year budgets on a bunch of new systems that could be obsolete by the time Vista ships. It largely depends on what the full list of TPM-reliant features looks like (if there's more than just full volume encryption), and which of those features entreprises will be depending on for tighter security. The requirement will obviously also give rise to routine Wintel scuttlebutt: that Microsoft is making the TPM a requirement to drive more sales for Intel as well as the systems manufacturers (Microsoft's primary channel for Windows sales).

Microsoft's leaner approach to Vista security

Microsoft is talking up support for hardware-based security in Windows Vista, though only a sliver of the company's original plan will make it into the operating system.Three years ago Microsoft unveiled Palladium, renamed Next-Generation Secure Computing Base (NGSCB) after the original name became tainted with controversy over privacy and fair-use issues and because another company claimed rights to the Palladium name. The technology was to be part of the next Windows release.NGSCB promised to boost PC security by using hardware and software that would allow parts of a computer to be isolated from malicious code such as viruses and worms. It also would foil attacks that use logging devices by encrypting data as it moves between a PC's hardware components. NGSCB required significant changes to hardware and software. In May 2004, following criticism from software makers, Microsoft said it was retooling NGSCB so some of the benefits would be available without the need to recode applications. The company has been silent on the plan since, though it insists NGSCB is not dead. Instead, its delivery is still to be determined, according to Microsoft's Web site.Now Microsoft is busy telling hardware and software makers about Secure Startup in Windows Vista, which it says is the "first delivery" on its hardware-based security plan. Vista, previously known by its code name, Longhorn, is the next client release of Windows due on store shelves in time for the next year's holiday shopping season.Secure Startup is primarily designed to prevent laptop thieves and other unauthorized users with physical access to a computer from getting access to the data on the system. Nearly half of all enterprises had laptops stolen, causing $4.1 million in damage, according to a January survey by the Computer Security Institute and the FBI.

Yep, as all can see, no TPM is due to be in the final release of Vista. *==In keeping with the Forum Rules, please let's keep this on topic. No flaming members. Debate topics, not people.Thank you. -- Bambi* EDIT: Added the winky smilie face in case it wasn't obvious I was joking around there.