Xfce 4.20 Desktop now available on Arch.

[abarbarian]

https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/xfce4-session/

 

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Xfce

 

Xfce 4.20 Desktop Environment Landed in Arch’s Repos

 

Quote

Just in time for the Christmas holidays, Arch Linux has given its users a delightful surprise. The latest version of the lightweight Xfce desktop environment, 4.20, debuted just a week ago, is now available in the stable distro’s repositories.

 

Still available ha ha ! It is in the EXTRA repo so is an official  release not an AUR one. I like Xfce and it is used on MX offerings.

 

Bobby Borisov has done a few Arch articles including an install guide, seems to have taken a shine to Arch. Not surprising really

 

Edited January 6 by abarbarian

[raymac46]

My update to EOS also installed Xfce 4.20

[Hedon James]

I've never been a fan of XFCE.  I've got no issues with it, but I've never really crossed paths with it long enough to develop an affinity, or distaste, for it.  I've just been indifferent.  In my early days of linux learning, I divvied desktops into Gnome and KDE categories.  Back then, it was Gnome 2.x series and KDE 3.x series.  I didn't learn about WM environments until later, but Gnome vs. KDE is still a thing with toolsets in WM environments.

 

Gnome was about the perfect desktop, IMO.  Intuitive, layed out in a logical manner, with bar at the top and reading L-R and Top-Bottom, like a book.  KDE had that weird Windows convention with the bar at the bottom, and reading from bottom to top.  And KDE had options....and their options had options...too much configuration, IMO.  I've come to learn and appreciate KDE, especially since it has matured and slimmed down.  I can make KDE look exactly how I want, but my tastes were formed as a Gnomie.

 

Gnome, OTOH, took a PERFECT desktop paradigm and started bungling it up and I eventually grew to despise Gnome.  When I started to look for lighter weight desktops, I considered XFCE and LXDE.  XFCE resembled my old Gnome preferences, but LXDE was even lighter than XFCE (confirmed by me on my system) and was SUPREMELY configurable.  The choice was made quite quickly...I was an LXDE guy (made with Gnome toolkit).  Shortly thereafter, Mint introduced the Cinnamon and Mate desktops, and I had a serious dalliance with Mate.  I could do everything I wanted with Mate that I preferred with LXDE....they were neck & neck.  But again, LXDE was lighter weight, so I stayed with it.

 

I've since recognized that LXDE (with it's original Gnome toolkit) will probably wither on the vine, but never die.  So I made the switch to LXQT, along with the overwhelming majority of LXQT users.  Resource usage increased...about on par with XFCE and Mate, and KDE slimmed down a LOT....all 4 were in a similar class with resource usage.  The new "hogs" were Gnome & Unity.  I can't comment on Cinnamon, because I've never really tried it out or used it for any length of time.  I can't figure out the niche it fills when it comes to MY workflows.  Not knocking Cinnamon...plenty of folks like it, even prefer it.  I'm just not sure what it does that one of the 5-6 others doesn't already do.  JMO. 

 

Anyways....  When I finally got around to expanding my VM farm over the Christmas/New Year holidays with GhostBSD, I got their default Mate desktop; and with OpenSUSE Tumbleweed (rolling), I purposely chose the XFCE desktop to get some representation for that desktop.  Hoping I'll see SOMETHING I want to adopt within my LXQT setup.

[raymac46]

I have been an Xfce fan for a long time. The very first old crappy laptop I installed Linux on (Vector Linux) used the Xfce desktop. Back when GNOME and KDE were the mainstream choices, Xfce seemed to be a useful lighter weight alternative. I have always selected Mint's Xfce on older laptops when I install it.

I do like LXQt but when I use it I usually choose XFWM as my window manager. I find it easier to use somehow - maybe because I have a long history with Thunar and other Xfce apps.

Plasma has really taken KDE to another level but I can usually find some way to bork the taskbar/main panel and then I can't fix it. Plus I still remember how KDE 3.6 was "death by menu."

[abarbarian]

1 hour ago, Hedon James said:

Gnome was about the perfect desktop,

 

Not in my universe. For a system that is supposed to be about freedom of choice how come the dead brained Gnome devs would not let you move the top bar ?

[raymac46]

I started out with Ubuntu Dapper Drake which featured GNOME 2. I found it pretty easy to use. GNOME 3 was another matter. I have installed a number of GNOME Shell extensions to make GNOME (Now 47) quite usable. However if I have to run with the defaults, I'd choose Xfce, Cinnamon, LXQt.

[Hedon James]

On 1/8/2025 at 10:15 AM, abarbarian said:

 

Not in my universe. For a system that is supposed to be about freedom of choice how come the dead brained Gnome devs would not let you move the top bar ?

haha!  I hear you!

 

When I stumbled onto Gnome 2.x desktop, it was one of those moments when the clouds parted, the sun shined its rays directly on me, and angels sang.  It was the PERFECT desktop for me, that I wanted but didn't know I needed, and certainly didn't know was possible.  I tried to modify Windows 7 to accommodate, but MS wasn't having ANY of that.  I didn't need to do ANYTHING with Gnome 2.x. 

 

But your comment is fair.  For an OS that is all about user-choice, I HATE what Gnome devs have done to Gnome in the name of "progress".  If they remove a feature or option, and someone else creates an extension to RESTORE what was removed, and people start writing user-guides and tutorials telling you how to do that, and the extension becomes VERY popular, you might want to consider that your user-base has SPOKEN.  But Gnome devs seem to be arrogantly oblivious, and charge forward with their agenda.  So I left....problem solved.  I imagine that's how you feel too?!  If I can't make your desktop fit my workflow and preferences, why should I bother to use your desktop?

 

The arrogance/narcissism/hubris of the Gnome Devs are the reason Cinnamon, Mate, Budgie & Deepin desktops were created in the first place.  Many of us ran to XFCE and LXDE (myself included).  Former Gnome users who didn't like where Gnome devs are steering the ship.  At least we have those alternative options in Linux.  Imagine being a Windows or OSX user and having a radical UX redesign shoved down your throat....what are your options to STAY in Windows/OSX ecosystems?  Linux for the win....AGAIN!

Edited Friday at 02:52 PM by Hedon James

[raymac46]

I'm not entirely sure why "parent" distros like Debian and Fedora use GNOME as their default DE. On my Thinkpad, I'm running Debian Testing so I decided I may as well "test" GNOME in the process.

Since I want my wife to be able to operate the Thinkpad, I installed a Dash To Dock Extension at the bottom of the screen and dispensed with the "Activities" button at the top, replacing it with the more familiar "Apps" and "Places" buttons.

There must be some folks out there who love using vanilla GNOME, but I am not one of them. I keep LXQt as an option in case GNOME drives me batty.

[Hedon James]

3 hours ago, raymac46 said:

I'm not entirely sure why "parent" distros like Debian and Fedora use GNOME as their default DE. On my Thinkpad, I'm running Debian Testing so I decided I may as well "test" GNOME in the process.

Since I want my wife to be able to operate the Thinkpad, I installed a Dash To Dock Extension at the bottom of the screen and dispensed with the "Activities" button at the top, replacing it with the more familiar "Apps" and "Places" buttons.

There must be some folks out there who love using vanilla GNOME, but I am not one of them. I keep LXQt as an option in case GNOME drives me batty.

I don't know anyone who likes "vanilla Gnome" anymore.  I'm sure they exist, I just haven't heard anyone singing their praises.  Gnome devs obviously developing for THEIR wants/needs/preferences, rather than userbase.  And the mass migration to alternative desktops doesn't seem to have phased them in the slightest, so maybe they know something I don't know.  What I DO KNOW is that they took a perfectly configured and usable desktop that I had to do NOTHING to, and made it so difficult to configure how I like that I decided to find another desktop.

 

I'm guessing so many "parent" distros use it as default because of all the "underpinnings" for Gnome throughout linux...toolsets, etc...  But if that's the case, I'm honestly surprised that XFCE isn't more popular as a default.

[raymac46]

It's my experience that for any given distro you usually get optimal results using the default DE. I remember trying out Mandriva thanks to the recommendations of Bruno and I did enjoy the package manager and general performance. However I didn't want to use the default KDE environment, so I tried Mandriva's version of GNOME. It turned out to be buggy and the Network Manager was very inconsistent.

I've been a fan of GTK environments because I like their apps like Rhythmbox and the GTK-based file managers. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to run a Qt based distro with GTK apps.

Cinnamon works great for me with Mint but I haven't tried to run it with other distros. Arch and Arch-based distros give you your choice of DE or WM and in that case I go with Xfce. I think one reason why Xfce hasn't been as popular is that it is very slow to be developed and updated. Besides that it can be sorta ugly without enhancements like Whiskermenu.

At the end of the day I am happy if a distro is compatible with my large collection of junk hardware, and I can easily change the wallpaper without resorting to the CLI or some sort of text file. Oh and I like it if wifi works.

[Hedon James]

14 hours ago, raymac46 said:

It's my experience that for any given distro you usually get optimal results using the default DE. I remember trying out Mandriva thanks to the recommendations of Bruno and I did enjoy the package manager and general performance. However I didn't want to use the default KDE environment, so I tried Mandriva's version of GNOME. It turned out to be buggy and the Network Manager was very inconsistent.

I've been a fan of GTK environments because I like their apps like Rhythmbox and the GTK-based file managers. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to run a Qt based distro with GTK apps.

Cinnamon works great for me with Mint but I haven't tried to run it with other distros. Arch and Arch-based distros give you your choice of DE or WM and in that case I go with Xfce. I think one reason why Xfce hasn't been as popular is that it is very slow to be developed and updated. Besides that it can be sorta ugly without enhancements like Whiskermenu.

At the end of the day I am happy if a distro is compatible with my large collection of junk hardware, and I can easily change the wallpaper without resorting to the CLI or some sort of text file. Oh and I like it if wifi works.

 

That's where I was for the longest time.  Outside of the "meat & potatoes" core apps that exist in every distro, I started to realize that many of my "extra" preferences were QT based....like VLC, TeamViewer, VirtualBox.  While I'll mix & match Gnome/QT apps, as NEEDED, I prefer to keep my system as homogeneous as possible, to keep from pulling in excessive dependencies.  It's probably OCD related, and I've long since surrendered to my OCD impulses.

 

When I was looking into the LXDE>LXQT switch, I spent a LOT of time with Siduction LXQT in a VM.  Siduction had the most polished LXQT desktop that I had seen, let alone used.  While I was realizing that rolling Debian updates were not my cup of tea, I was also concluding that LXQT was absolutely my cup of tea and upon realizing that my core LXDE/Gnome apps could be 100% replaced with LXQT/QT apps, with NO loss of functionality, I realized the script had been flipped.  Instead of Gnome apps, with a few QT "extras" to round out the menu; I could have an almost 100% QT desktop with a very few select Gnome "extras".  I found a Gnome/QT equivalency application website and started to audition some of the very few remaining Gnome apps with recommended QT alternatives.  I found QT replacements for all my Gnome apps, with the same or greater functionality....if I had to give up a feature, I was keeping the Gnome app.  As I recall, my only stumbling blocks were Firefox & Chrome, my Banshee Music Media, Shutter screenshot, and Gnome Disks.  Eventually, I was able to come to grips with Cantata and Clementine Music Players (small concession....I had to give up Amazon Music purchases from WITHIN the app....a regrettable inconvenience, but not a deal-killer, just a hard bummer); and Spectacle screenshot.  KDE has a disk manager, but Gnome Disks is one of the few Gnome apps that I actually like better than it's QT counterpart tool.  And Firefox and Chrome are still considered Gnome apps.  Chrome on my LXQT is kinda buggy, and requires modification of the desktop launcher with flags for QT, or it doesn't launch and fails quietly.  And it updates quite frequently, so it keeps breaking the fixed launcher.  I finally threw up my hands and switched to the Chrome flatpak....so while a Gnome application, at least it's self-contained.  Chromium is considered a mix of Gnome and QT tools, but doesn't provide what I need (bookmark sync across devices, Google integration, etc...)  So its a backup solution that I haven't needed, but am happy to have.  And I guess some of my DEB packages not available in Debian repos may be Gnome (or they may be QT?).

 

But overall, if my desktop used to be 70/30 Gnome; it is now probably 80/20 or even 90/10 QT?!!!  And I'm calling that a "switch" from the Gnome to the QT camp!

[raymac46]

I really admire the fact that you have developed and tailored a custom distro to suit your workflow. Also that you have almost fully embraced the Qt technoverse.

For my part, I think that LXQt is a superb choice for my old memory-challenged hardware, as well as a great alternative if something goes wrong with the heavier DEs.

However I haven't found anything I like on the Qt side to replace Rhythmbox, Brasero, Abiword, Gnumeric, Thunar, Shotwell... One Qt app I really think is great is the lightweight browser Falkon.

So for now I guess I'll straddle the border between GTK and Qt. Don't get me started on border security tho LOL.

[abarbarian]

On 1/10/2025 at 2:41 PM, Hedon James said:

haha!  I hear you!

 

That was way back when I started my penguin journey. Windows would let you do some customisation but mostly though fairly dodgy free apps or just as dodgy paid for apps that gave you more choices. I did like the Rocket Dock ( I think that is it's name).

So when I read you could get a free os and do what you wanted with it I was most disappointed when I could not move the top bar to the bottom in Gnome. Even more disappointed when I kept trying the fabulous best thing since sliced bread KDE as it was pretty and fabulous apart from the fact that almost every update to it caused some gremlin or catastrophic crashes.

So I tried all sorts of stuff like E 17, Mate and so forth they all were pretty good until they had updates and then  the dreaded gremlins popped up. I almost went back to Windows full time as it required tons less reading and brain work for a similar buggy experience.

Until I stumbled upon Window Maker. Heaven at last ! Well in that it never crashes due to updates and you can do almost anything you like with it, make it look and act as you wish. It did take an awful load of searching and reading and following endless dead ends to gain knowledge about how to tame it though. An I am still finding out customisation nuggets.

So I recon that even though all the other offerings are becoming slicker and less prone to gremlins, more polished and modern an all that, I will stick with old reliable crash free Window Maker.

 

[Hedon James]

4 hours ago, raymac46 said:

I really admire the fact that you have developed and tailored a custom distro to suit your workflow. Also that you have almost fully embraced the Qt technoverse.

For my part, I think that LXQt is a superb choice for my old memory-challenged hardware, as well as a great alternative if something goes wrong with the heavier DEs.

However I haven't found anything I like on the Qt side to replace Rhythmbox, Brasero, Abiword, Gnumeric, Thunar, Shotwell... One Qt app I really think is great is the lightweight browser Falkon.

So for now I guess I'll straddle the border between GTK and Qt. Don't get me started on border security tho LOL.

Thank you, I appreciate the sentiment, but it's not a noble cause for me.  I'm just scratching OCD itches, LOL!  And FWIW, I like that Linux provides us the opportunity to CHOOSE.  I can choose Clementine or Cantata to play my music, and you can choose Rhythmbox, and each of us is pleased that we got the BEST choice available, based on our own individual criteria.

 

With that said, don't know what your criteria are, but here's a list of QT software that I found helpful:

https://wiki.qt.io/List_of_Qt_Applications

It's by no means exhaustive, and I think it's a little dated, but it's a good start.  I was going to recommend you look at Sayonara Music Player, as I was considering it as a replacement for Banshee, but at the time Sayonara wouldn't sync with my MP3 player.  I no longer sync with a cable, from within the player; but using SyncMe wireless to "pull" from my desktop to my phone.  My workhorse desktop is my hub, which I treat as a server, for EVERYTHING.  I consider my Studio Desktop a standalone device, although I do "pull" music from my workhouse via Samba sync.  And I have a Media desktop that is basically a standalone movie server, via KODI share over network.  My numerous Roku set-top devices "see" the KODI server and I can pull almost 1,000 movies that I ripped from DVD, bought from streaming service and "stripped" the DRM, or similar actions.

 

Back to the apps....I like Cantata and Clementine as Rhythmbox replacements, and I should probably reconsider Sayonara if it's still being actively developed.  I'd PREFER it was in Debian repos, but I'll consider a DEB package, or a Flatpak.  I'm out on PPAs anymore.  Just a personal choice.  I've always preferred K3B as a disc burner, and XFburn (from XFCE desktop) as a solid 2nd choice (also Gnome) over Brasero.  Personal tastes.  Abiword & Gnumeric are tough to replace as lightweight office apps.  I think everyone knows of LibreOffice, which is primarily a QT app, but with Gnome components.  And that's not exactly lightweight.  I see OnlyOffice on the list.  I'd give that a spin, but it resembles that MS ribbon menu too much,IMO, and I HATE that ribbon menu.  Not sure how lightweight it might be.  But with that said, I would (and HAVE) install Abiword & Gnumeric on resource-challenged hardware.

 

Check out the list and see if you can find a QT alternative that adequately suits your needs and can replace a Gnome counterpart.  Or not....

 

EDIT:  Here's a more exhaustive list of QT apps:

https://wiki.manjaro.org/index.php/List_of_Qt_Applications

Edited Saturday at 07:58 PM by Hedon James

[raymac46]

Thanks for the link and I'll give it some consideration.

To be honest I have only two full-fledged LXQt installs. One is with Arch on a grubby old netbook that really can't do much of anything productive. I use Falkon to surf the web, and I have Abiword and Gnumeric on there. The other is on a Vista-era desktop that runs Spiral Linux. All that machine does is play some MP3s with Rhythmbox.

Edited Saturday at 07:45 PM by raymac46

[Hedon James]

1 hour ago, abarbarian said:

 

That was way back when I started my penguin journey. Windows would let you do some customisation but mostly though fairly dodgy free apps or just as dodgy paid for apps that gave you more choices. I did like the Rocket Dock ( I think that is it's name).

So when I read you could get a free os and do what you wanted with it I was most disappointed when I could not move the top bar to the bottom in Gnome. Even more disappointed when I kept trying the fabulous best thing since sliced bread KDE as it was pretty and fabulous apart from the fact that almost every update to it caused some gremlin or catastrophic crashes.

So I tried all sorts of stuff like E 17, Mate and so forth they all were pretty good until they had updates and then  the dreaded gremlins popped up. I almost went back to Windows full time as it required tons less reading and brain work for a similar buggy experience.

Until I stumbled upon Window Maker. Heaven at last ! Well in that it never crashes due to updates and you can do almost anything you like with it, make it look and act as you wish. It did take an awful load of searching and reading and following endless dead ends to gain knowledge about how to tame it though. An I am still finding out customisation nuggets.

So I recon that even though all the other offerings are becoming slicker and less prone to gremlins, more polished and modern an all that, I will stick with old reliable crash free Window Maker.

 

 

My wife STILL uses the Rocket Dock!  Started using it on WinXP and have installed it on every version for her to date.  Currently on Win10!  It's probably going to cease working someday, and I've warned her....this might get buggy and crash, or stop working entirely...just be aware.  Her response is that when/if that happens, find her an identical replacement.  Sure thing, honey....sure thing.  LOL!

 

I dig your Window Maker story.  Reminds me of the old stories about NASA spending millions of dollars to develop a pressurized ink cartridge that would work in space, without gravity.  The Russians, faced with the same dilemma regarding writing utensils, decided to use a pencil.  Invoking Occam's Razor, all other things being equal, the simpler solution is the better option!

[abarbarian]

13 hours ago, Hedon James said:

this might get buggy and crash, or stop working entirely...just be aware.

 

Not a problem for me as i have not had a Windows install on a pc for almost a decade.

 

13 hours ago, Hedon James said:

all other things being equal, the simpler solution is the better option!

 

Apart from their terrible leaders, Uncle Joe, Putin etc the Russians are very good at producing stuff that may be basic and slightly inefficient but that works in almost all conditions. Prime example is the AK 47. An they had the first man in space along with the first return landing spacecraft on land as opposed to splash downs in water.