Looking for Pointers- Noob Linux Flash Drive Installs

[Cluttermagnet]

Hi, All-

 

I'm pleased to mention that a local friend has decided to take his first shot at

learning and using Linux. Like most, he has strictly a Windows background

at the outset. In all, not that difficult a task- I should be able to get him

started without too much trouble.

 

That being said, the task at hand is forcing me to learn the ins and outs

of *installing* a bootable Linux OS to a flash drive. I've never gotten around

to it thus far. OTOH I remember doing many Linux installations to

various HDD and SSD since 2007 when I fired up my very first 'keeper'

Linux (it was Ubuntu Dapper Drake v. 6.06). At this point I find that part

effortless. But a few questions do pop up in connection with flash

drives...

 

BTW the flash drive questions arise because his platform is a

relatively light HP machine in a mini-tower. I think (not yet confirmed)

that it has only capability for one drive, a 1TB HDD that came stock

with the computer. Although Win 10 uses relatively little of that big

drive, I just don't want to mess with it. I'd have recommended

installing a second physical drive, were that possible. USB thumb

drive looks like the easy way out to me. I did hear of a flash drive

option that would (I think) plug into the mobo, some g.2 or s.2

type port or something? I'm going strictly by memory at this point.

Sounds less easy and more pricey to me, think I'll stick with thumb

drives...

 

I've noticed the various live Linux distros are pretty adept at detecting

on board hardware in a huge variety of platforms. How flexible (if at

all) is an *installed* OS on a flash drive if you move it around from

computer A to B to C, etc?

 

My friend was pointed towards Linux Mint 20.2 Cinnamon, and I think

this will be a great distro for him- but how well will this distro do in a

32 or 64GB flash drive? Should I be steering him towards a more

lightweight Debian based distro? Lubuntu or such like?

 

Do any of you believe in partitioning the flash drive- or just let the OS

install as it pleases? I saw a tutorial for Ubuntu where the guy was

advocating a 2GB /boot partition, about 55+ GB for root, and the

top 4GB for swap. What do you guys think? Does anyone ever

use a /home partition in such schemes? I use a /home partition

routinely in all my installations. Force of habit, I guess...

 

TIA, Clutter

 

P.S. His HP box has USB 2.0. I know it will be a little sluggish, but

OTOH his Windows bloat is presently so bad that boot time is

pretty long. I don't think he will even notice. Must have an awful

lot of utilities needlessly starting with Windows. At this point I

am so rusty and far removed from Windows (since 2007) I don't

even want to mess with something as simple as "what starts

with Windows". I'd have to relearn everything...

 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Cluttermagnet

[striker]

Clutter, hi there. I'm in the same boat when it comes down to knowledge... The way I managed to circumvent this little problem is as simple as it is: I use a Mac as main working machine, however my more than 10 years old rusty and trusty Lenovo laptop runs completely on Linux. I just dumped Windows altogether for once and for all back in those days and I haven't missed it since. It's another option than you or your friend may be thinking of, but it might be another possible option. It all boils down to a choice to be made. B.T.W. Linux Mint got updated to 20.3. It runs on my laptop completely ok. The things I can do with the Mac I also can do with the Linux Mint laptop.
Let's see when the other members chime in to see what they can offer to help you out.

[abarbarian]

Personally I would recomend MX-21 which is what I am posting from on my old Tough Book. It runs nice and smoothly, web pages load quickly, vids run great all in all an excellent choice for older computers.

i did a trial where I installed a live version with persistence on a usb3 stick and ran it on my Skylake build and it ran as fast as stink.

 

This is a link to a review and a download and some release notes.

 

https://forums.scotsnewsletter.com/index.php?/topic/97159-mx-21-“wildflower”-released/#comment-473863

 

link to MX downloads

 

https://mxlinux.org/download-links/

 

You probably need one of these if it is a fairly new machine,

 

Quote

MX-21_x64 “ahs”,   an “Advanced Hardware Support” release for very recent hardware, with 5.14 kernel and newer graphics drivers and firmware. 64 bit only. Works for all users, but especially if you use AMD Ryzen, AMD Radeon RX graphics, or 9th/10th/11th generation Intel hardware.

 

MX-21_x64 KDE,   with the debian stable kernel and ahs repos enabled.

 

 

There are many ways to install a Live .iso to a usb stick. The link above mentions Ventoy which is a great tool but not as simple as using the dd command. If you do not like typing or working from a terminal then the simplest way to install MX to usb is with Etcher.

 

https://www.balena.io/etcher/

 

You simply download Etcher from the link on their page, this ensures you obtain the latest version of Etcher. Extract the .zip file then left click on the .AppImage file and the program runs. You should be able to work out what to do next.

 

I would suggest that you make a simple Live MX on usb firstly and give it a run before trying to make it persistent.

 

I have installed MX with persistence to a 8 GB usb installed some needed programs and still have had space left.

 

The reason I recommend MX is that it comes with many distro specific tools that are easy for a beginner to understand and use. The one you will be most interested in is MX Live USB Maker.

 

 

Also the layout is very Windows like in that you have an icon bottom left on your screen that opens up a menu similar to Windows. The .iso come with just about all the programs a standard user could ever need  probably over kill for seasoned users but great for beginners.

MX is stable, I have run it since 2017 and have never had any problems with it ever.

You can move the taskbar to the top of your screen if you do not like it at the side and it is easy to make things bigger or smaller and shift them around and add items to it.

 

If you do want to dive straight in to making a persistent usb this will be of help.

 

https://mxlinux.org/wiki/system/create-a-live-usb-w-persist-from-a-windows-desktop/

 

A treasure trove of MX information,

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/runwiththedolphin/videos

 

antix mx 19 live usb configuration    view this from 4.30 mins in for a clear explanation of the live persistence features. Very handy.

 

make a full featured MX or antiX live usb - excellent guide

 

Make a full-featured antiX/MX live-usb when all you have is one read-only live-usb with "toram" -- how to save changes made to live usb if you only have one usb stick.

 

By the way Mints are made to suck,

 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by abarbarian

[Hedon James]

I think Mint is a good choice for a 1st time Linux "tryer".  It's quite similar to what they're already familiar with.  Lubuntu is also a good choice, IMO, and may run butter on a lower-specced machine, as it is more lightweight than Mint (which in turn, is more lightweight than Windows). 

 

Your friend has a pretty good sized HDD, and you indicate there's a lot of unused GBs on that drive.  You further indicate his Windows install has become quite "stale" (sluggish, perhaps even buggy?), although you don't say which version of Windows.  Based on nothing more than indicated specs, I'm going to GUESS Windows7, perhaps Windows8?

 

Why not just install Linux in a dual-boot fashion?  You have the disk space to spare.  It sounds like the "degeneration" of his Windows is driving this, moreso than his Linux curiousity.  If Linux performs for him in a manner we all know it will, once he gets used to Linux, he'll never look back (we all KNOW this to be true).  But he'll want all his data/documents to be "pulled into" his new Linux OS, and that is a very simple task in a dual-boot arrangement.  Just mount the Windows C drive, locate the user directory and copy everything into Linux directories.  Easy peasy.

 

OTOH, if he hates Linux and insists on returning to sluggish Windows, simply edit the GRUB file and make Windows his default boot OS.  Plus, if Linux Mint or Lubuntu aren't the "right" distros for your friend, it will be quite easy to overwrite the existing Linux OS with something else he prefers, but still leaving his Windows intact as a safety net.

 

I think you're on the right track with a Live USB and letting him "try before you buy", but if Linux is running on a USB 2.0 port, it may not seem any different than frustratingly slow Windows.  From that perspective, why should he switch to Linux?  Linux needs to be BETTER than the Windows he's used to....and Windows on a HDD, but Linux from USB 2.0 isn't a level playing field.  Put 'em on the same hardware and let it play out.  WE know how it turns out, but you need to let HIM learn this too.  People accept truth better when they discover it for themselves, not because they're told.

 

Just a suggestion, and just my opinion.  Either way, I wish I had known someone like you when I was Linux-curious!  Good luck Clutter!

[abarbarian]

3 minutes ago, Hedon James said:

but if Linux is running on a USB 2.0 port, it may not seem any different than frustratingly slow Windows.

 

Not really true. On a modern pc if you load a Live MX or other distro into ram "toram"  it may take a while to load up but once loaded it should run in a very acceptable fashion and certainly as fast and smooth as a clean Windows install.

If I load MX into ram on my Skylake build which is seen years old now you can barely tell the difference between it and my normal Arch install.

 

[raymac46]

Lots to unpack here. For sure you want to start him off with a Live USB - if his machine is capable of a USB boot. Not all old machines are. That said you can use the Linux Mint USB image maker to burn an ISO onto the USB flash drive. I believe you have Mint installed on your machines.It's important to ask your friend how committed he is to Microsoft software like IE, Edge, Office, etc as some of these will need to be substituted in Linux.

I'm not a big fan of dual booting. You could take out his old HDD, put in a  different one and just install Linux on that. Maybe a cheap SSD would do the trick. 

If he has Windows 10 and its still getting updates then he might want to keep it. Otherwise if he likes Linux, just blow Windows away but make sure to keep a backup of his files. Windows 7 should never be dual booted nowadays unless there's no Internet access for it.

It has been my experience that most naive Linux users will eventually go back to Windows if it is available. It's always better to go cold turkey. If you have a spare Linux machine around you could set it up and let him play with that for a while.

Edited January 10, 2022 by raymac46

[raymac46]

The reason I don't like dual boot for new users is that eventually they will bork it and not be able to boot into anything. I know you sophisticates here would never do that but someone who doesn't know what they are doing will.

My most successful Linux installs:

90+ year old lady who had nothing at all besides an old Linux junker I fixed up for her. Used Linux Mint for years.

My grandkids who use Google Suite on a variety of old machines for school . Linux Mint.

2 older guys who bought new machines and I put Linux Mint on their old ones. One of them even uses Wine.

TBA - my wife's friend who totally messed up her Windows laptop. She bought a new one, and I put Linux Mint on her old one as a backup. Had to use Linux on a USB drive to get her data as Windows would not work at all.

[abarbarian]

11 minutes ago, raymac46 said:

The reason I don't like dual boot for new users is that eventually they will bork it and not be able to boot into anything.

 

I got around that problem by installing Windows to drive then disconnecting the drive and installing linux to a fresh drive. Then reconnected the Windows drive and at boot chose which os to use. Best of it was Windows could not see the linux stuff but linux could see all the Windows stuff. That way there was no way to bork anything. 

[V.T. Eric Layton]

39 minutes ago, abarbarian said:

I got around that problem by installing Windows to drive then disconnecting the drive and installing linux to a fresh drive. Then reconnected the Windows drive and at boot chose which os to use.

 

Yes, this has been my multi-booting method for 16 years now.

[abarbarian]

3 minutes ago, V.T. Eric Layton said:

 

Yes, this has been my multi-booting method for 16 years now.

 

I got the idea from a mate on another forum.He has loads of loot so he invested in pull out drawers that slot into spare cd/dd slots to house drives in and slots them in and out as needed. It is definitely the way to go if dual booting.

[raymac46]

That is a good way but Clutter did not think a second drive location would be available in his friend's small form factor case. In that situation you can only replace the drive or dual boot off it.

[Cluttermagnet]

Wow, you guys have come through for me in great Scot's Forum form! Most grateful

for all the insights and I think some pretty good suggestions. I will be re-reading this

thread multiple times as I slowly absorb it all.

 

There are definitely lots of options in my friend's situation, and he has already shown

a willingness to look at different paths. At this point I still think an installed OS on a

USB stick will be a good start for him and his family, which I will elaborate on a bit

below. I'll more directly address the MX Linux topic in another post, but I can

already identify his box as having one of those AMD Ryzen chips (CPU?)

 

I should have written down his HP model number. His box is maybe 6-8 years old,

I am guessing. I recall a partial number, it definitely ends in "...P0044". It has one

of those tiny laptop CD/DVD drives mounted vertically in the front panel. I thought

that looked a little tinny (cheap).

 

He has expressed a willingness to buy a flash card- they can apparently plug

into the mobo in what I now remember being called an M2 slot (?) I think there

are 2 such slots on that board. Although I haven't yet confirmed it, I believe there

is no way to install a 2nd hard drive or SSD on this box. BTW my recollection is

that these types of flash cards tend to be fairly expensive, i.e. not at all the

cheapest way to go. He mentions in an email something like 200 dollars to

do that. Yikes! I think I may try to avoid having him do that. The box is too old.

He would do better putting that 200. towards something newer...

 

Here's the thing- this is a fairly large family with young kids and teens as well,

and that machine gets widely shared. One of them uses it for online school

due to the covid mess. My central principle is that I am very reluctant to do

anything that endangers the integrity of the present ***Win 10*** install.

To my knowledge he has no OS or data backups of any kind in use, other

than access to the usual 'Windows Recovery' software if he bricks it. BTW

while I had a live DVD session of Mint 20.2 running I fired up gparted and took

a look at his drive (only one drive present). Indeed, there are miles of open

spaces on that HDD. In theory I could let Mint install to the same drive but

I'm just very reluctant to take that risk because there are other ways to get

this done. I would become an instant villain with those kids if it was *I*

who bricked their present Windows.

 

Let's back way off and look at my friend's original purpose in wanting to

try Linux: he wants added security, but had a clear misconception that

moving to linux alone would allow him to fly more 'under the radar'. Let

me hasten to add that he is clearly an honest, upstanding human being,

very respectable. I'd say that he is an influencer, and due to the ugly

politics of our era, he has to tread lightly. In a nutshell, he wants more

privacy. I have begun the task if educating him as to all the layers.

He is aware that adding a VPN would be good for him, and he is

considering (or presently trying) Proton VPN. This is a big subject.

He uses Proton Mail- so do I for some portion of my daily comms...

 

I'll be able to clarify that moving to Linux makes him less likely to be

hacked, but that's about it; more layers needed. As it stands, there are

way too many spy devices in that home, including various smart

phones and lots of wifi going on and lots of Windows spyware no

doubt volitionally installed on various computers. I heard one of his

teens/young adults hollering at Alexa one day when I was over there.

Yikes, yikes, yikes! He clearly hasn't thought this through. Even later

model large screen TV's are present- may have internet connections or

connections to Comcast may be sufficient. Definitely feels like

'open mic night' every time I am over there. Heh! I am going to

have to set aside an hour or two and just have a real long talk

about security. I do think he understands some, however.

I detect an awareness and a desire to move away from that stuff.

We have spoken several times about how addictive smart phones

are, how very difficult to give them up... Oh, yes- they have one of

those doorbell spy thingies too. Ugh! Takes videos, probably

shares them on a network...

 

I'll post more after I digest all the suggestions above.

 

Thanks, All,

 

Clutter

 

[wa4chq]

21 hours ago, abarbarian said:

 

I got around that problem by installing Windows to drive then disconnecting the drive and installing linux to a fresh drive. Then reconnected the Windows drive and at boot chose which os to use. Best of it was Windows could not see the linux stuff but linux could see all the Windows stuff. That way there was no way to bork anything. 

Years ago, I used a Hard Drive switch.  It lived in one of the spare bays.  You could switch between 3 hd's....like I really needed three hard drives!  lol  But being me, I had three hard drives...

[raymac46]

I would agree with you that Linux installed on a desktop won't solve his security problems, especially if other folks in the house are using Windows and lots of sundry wifi devices. I'd check to see he has a decent gateway with WPA2 hopefully and a strong wifi password. A VPN might help in certain situations.

If his motherboard will suppport M.2 slots you could install an M.2 drive for Linux I suppose. They can be had in Canada for quite a bit less than $200. I suspect in the US you could get a 500GB one for $50 on sale.

If he is the only one worrying about getting hacked, you could give him Linux on a persistent thumbdrive and let him go at it. In that case I might use a Windows USB maker like Rufus to make the ISO. I haven't a lot of experience with persistence on USBs so I'll defer to the experts.

[raymac46]

http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c05934592.pdf

 

If this is his desktop it will support M.2

[raymac46]

One final thought. Given that your friend has lots of wifi devices, why not get an old cheap Thinkpad or Dell Latitude and install Linux Mint on that? I have a T430 that is about 9 years old and it runs Debian like a champ. He gets Linux and everybody else does their thing undisturbed.

[V.T. Eric Layton]

7 hours ago, Cluttermagnet said:

As it stands, there are way too many spy devices in that home...

 

Yes, from what you're saying here, your friend's security fears are realistic. Sadly, with kids, wife, etc., it's going to be rather difficult to break those insecure habits that they've already become comfortable with, that's not even mentioning the house full of cell phones, I'm sure.

 

Some will say that it's paranoia. Fine. Personally, though, I will NOT have any IoT carp in my home. I'm not currently on a VPN, but do use TOR browser at times when I feel the need for a bit more anonymity. Speaking of anonymity, a wise friend told me many years ago, when I first got active on the modern WWW Internet, that the best security was anonymity itself. He recommended using a pseudonym in ALL places online when possible. Of course, there are some places where you must use your real identity... banking, personal medical sites, online purchasing, etc. You can't get away from that. However, using your real identity (full name) on other superfluous websites is pure insanity, from a security perspective. Sadly, most folks are still ignorant of the evils out there on the Internet. They use their real names and tell ALL about everything on sites like Instagram and Facebook.

 

Meh... whaddya' gonna' do?

 

---

 

About your worries of possibly trashing your friends WIN installation, best to install Linux for him on a separate device... as Ray mentions above.

[Hedon James]

18 minutes ago, raymac46 said:

One final thought. Given that your friend has lots of wifi devices, why not get an old cheap Thinkpad or Dell Latitude and install Linux Mint on that? I have a T430 that is about 9 years old and it runs Debian like a champ. He gets Linux and everybody else does their thing undisturbed.

 

Also a good suggestion!  For the price of an "upgraded" M.2 drive in the desktop, he could have a used (new to him) laptop running Linux for himself.  (The kids using Windows for school stuff is an important consideration that I hadn't thought of, but Clutter is all over that, and I'd feel the same if I were him).  Let the dad be the "proof of concept", and see where it goes.

 

Ironically, I first started looking into Linux because I was sick & tired of fixing my kids' computer.  I had 2 teenage sons who were constantly looking at naked women on the internet, and filling out "opinion surveys" to get paid for their opinions.  I had the father-son chat, but the allure of naked women to the not-yet-fully-formed teenage brain was too irresistible.  I had put parental controls on the machine; I prevented internet access from 10pm to 6am; I blocked porn sites as I discovered them in browser histories....but WinXP always had an issue because of those 2 characters.  (Ironically, MY WinXP ran just fine?!)  Eventually, I came to the conclusion that I couldn't control their behavior, but I could certainly control whether I had to fix the damn computer every week.  Everything I read suggested that another OS, something called "Linux", was a LOT more secure than WinXP and was immune to the viruses and malware afflictions that WinXP was so susceptible to.  Installed Linux Mint on that machine and, miraculously, the computer trouble-shooting sessions stopped almost instantly.  And it didn't prevent the kids from doing any homework, or writing papers.  I got a little pushback in the form of "we're supposed to use MS Word" to which I explained that OpenOffice Writer did the same thing...the teacher is suggesting Word because that's what SHE knows.  Again, the pushback...."see, here's our instructions....typed, double-space, 100 lines....using MS Word."  My response was "too bad....we HAD Word, but we kept getting porn viruses on the computer, so now we have Writer.  If your teacher lowers your grade, you tell her WHY we don't have Word and I'll be happy to talk to her about this assignment."  Never heard a peep about it after that.  But I digress........point being, if there's a lot of kids using that family computer for school work, IRONICALLY, that computer may be the one most in need of a Linux "upgrade" and protective measures.  FWIW...

 

I'd suggest that a Linux-powered laptop for Dad could be proof of concept.  And then it could be a test bed for kids school work.  That Windows machine being used by the kids is a malware magnet.  Linux (or even ChromeOS) would be a good thing, IMO!  But Clutter is right....not right away.  The road needs to be built first!

 

[raymac46]

Of course another way for Dad to play with Linux is just install VirtualBox on Windows 10 and then your distro of choice in VBox. Takes a bit of geeking around but no cost - although you will be tying up the kids' homework machine.

[striker]

1 hour ago, raymac46 said:

One final thought. Given that your friend has lots of wifi devices, why not get an old cheap Thinkpad or Dell Latitude and install Linux Mint on that? I have a T430 that is about 9 years old and it runs Debian like a champ. He gets Linux and everybody else does their thing undisturbed.

I second that...  

[abarbarian]

5 hours ago, striker said:

I second that...  

 

 

Great looking selfi you have there as yer wallpaper

[abarbarian]

He could try looking on Fleabay for a secondhand card. You do need to make sure what size M2 slot he has as there are two or three different sizes.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/372467233949?epid=2254405535&hash=item56b8c6f49d:g:MTEAAOSwKEFbvv2c

 

This is the same card as I used and it is as fast as stink. Yeah I know it comes from China but the guy has nearly 10,000 sales recorded. You can find USA or Canadian sellers but hey are a lot more expensive.

M2 cards have a pretty long life just the same as ssd's. 

[securitybreach]

Like others have mentioned, it is very easy to setup a dual boot nowadays as most distros offer the option through the installation wizard. Personally I usually suggest LinuxMint to newcomers and most never have any issues. I have a few people that I put on LinuxMint years ago and none of them have asked me a single thing about it so I guess it just works..

[Cluttermagnet]

Wow, you guys have posted so many good suggestions and comments!

Here in Clutter Land there has been a rash of hardware failures (or

flakiness) in recent days and months. So I had to get busy re-doing

some hardware, and that is still a work in progress.

 

Meanwhile my friend just recently showed me that hand me down HP

tower that seems pretty recent and looks to be a really great platform

for his first Linux box. He is wisely holding out for a new SSD, too-

good choice. So it appears he wants to avoid the situation of a

sluggish installed OS on a USB stick hampered by a USB 2.0 port.

 

I intend to continue the 'install Linux to a thumb drive' project just

for my own enlightenment, but I do think It would be very handy for

him to have one on hand too. It could be run, for example, on that

box heavily used by several family members. I have a bunch of similar

projects going on in parallel, including saving files and moving them

around, looking at doing a better job with backups, and so on.

So this will eventually get done. I have always wanted to try a

'pocket OS' but have never gotten around to it so far.

 

Striker- wish I had a 430, but it so happens I just had a Lenovo

T420 die on me. The SSD was OK so it was a hardware failure on

the mobo I guess. We got a number of good years of heavy, daily

use out of that box, no regrets. I like fixing up the older stuff.

I put the drive in a USB 3.0 external drive case and have been

working at saving bunches of files off of it.

 

Clutter

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Cluttermagnet

[Cluttermagnet]

On 1/11/2022 at 4:08 PM, abarbarian said:

He could try looking on Fleabay for a secondhand card. You do need to make sure what size M2 slot he has as there are two or three different sizes.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/372467233949?epid=2254405535&hash=item56b8c6f49d:g:MTEAAOSwKEFbvv2c

 

This is the same card as I used and it is as fast as stink. Yeah I know it comes from China but the guy has nearly 10,000 sales recorded. You can find USA or Canadian sellers but hey are a lot more expensive.

M2 cards have a pretty long life just the same as ssd's. 

 

Good suggestion! I happen to frequent Ebay a lot. I'm not averse to buying Chinese

merchandise, and buying directly from there, too. Have done it many times with

electronic parts and small electronics etc. I will make that suggestion to him and

assist in sorting out which are compatible if needed.

[Cluttermagnet]

On 1/11/2022 at 9:18 AM, raymac46 said:

One final thought. Given that your friend has lots of wifi devices, why not get an old cheap Thinkpad or Dell Latitude and install Linux Mint on that? I have a T430 that is about 9 years old and it runs Debian like a champ. He gets Linux and everybody else does their thing undisturbed.

 

Oops! I failed to credit the original poster. A laptop is a great idea,

I'm definitely going to mention the used lappie approach next time

we talk this week. Thanks! I got pretty good mileage out of all 3

Lenovo laptops I have bought used off of Ebay. Dirt cheap, too.

2 out of 3 still running after years of second hand use here.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Cluttermagnet

[Cluttermagnet]

On 1/11/2022 at 8:12 AM, wa4chq said:

Years ago, I used a Hard Drive switch.  It lived in one of the spare bays.  You could switch between 3 hd's....like I really needed three hard drives!  lol  But being me, I had three hard drives...

 

Heh! I get it. Like I really need over half a dozen desktops and several laptops.

It's just in my nature to accumulate stuff. Started back in my teens when I

got my Novice license and got on the air.  My collection is now going on 58

years, all boxed and labeled on steel shelves in the basement, some two

dozen or so. Imagine all those Amazon smiles on all the boxes LOL! I just

really like to fix up the old gear. Probably my frugal nature, I love a bargain.

My parents were kids in the Great Depression (1930's). I think some of that

must have rubbed off on me. Oh, and Betty had the Amazon virus for a good

while. I always saved the shipping boxes from all the stuff she ordered...

[securitybreach]

9 hours ago, Cluttermagnet said:

 

Good suggestion! I happen to frequent Ebay a lot. I'm not averse to buying Chinese

merchandise, and buying directly from there, too. Have done it many times with

electronic parts and small electronics etc. I will make that suggestion to him and

assist in sorting out which are compatible if needed.

 

Don't worry, everything comes from China. I would be amazed if you found electronics not from china.