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V.T. Eric Layton

Coronavirus - COVID-19

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securitybreach
35 minutes ago, V.T. Eric Layton said:

Me, too. Sadly, I'm no longer prepared because I had to sell off most of my extensive firearms collection and accompanying ammo in order to pay household bills this past couple years. I have a baseball bat, though. ;)

 

Just have to find out where the hoarders live..

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Cluttermagnet
6 hours ago, securitybreach said:

 

Just have to find out where the hoarders live..

 

That's a very real concern among survivalists. I've seen repeated warnings about not blabbing

to others how prepared you are. Scenario goes- first your neighbors ask for food. Then they beg.

Then they start demanding. Then come the burglaries and home invasions. Pretty soon you

are fighting off the zombies, just like in the games and movies...

 

I wouldn't even make the team in the little leagues of preparedness types- but I do keep some

food stores- and water- and of course the new gold, toilet paper. Don't tell anyone! ;)

:happyroll:

 

You can't hoard produce. Still have to to to the grocery store with some regularity for that.

And pray our supply lines don't break down, a very real possibility. I hear one can do

surprisingly well with 'micro-greens' crops grown in sunny windows, also sprouts are

very nutritious.

 

I'm not a survivalist, and I'm getting too old now to have a bug out/head for the hills plan.

If the going gets really rough, I probably won't make it. But I'll at least go down fighting...

 

Clutter

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zlim

There was a very interesting news story last night about a greens producer in Seingsgrove, BrightFarms. Everything is grown hydroponically.

https://www.wfmz.com/features/one-tank-trip/virtual-one-tank-trip-brightfarms/article_a6e73736-9ae1-11ea-9d79-c34b9226f80a.html

 

We never saw this brand. I went here https://www.brightfarms.com/storelocator/

and apparently one of the Giant stores in our are carries the brand.

 

We can't grow anything edible and a lot of flowers because of the deer. My husband has to spray our shrubs about every 3 - 4 weeks because they've almost managed to kill a few of those.

 

 

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securitybreach

Well humans are only a couple of meals away from pure chaos.

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V.T. Eric Layton
7 hours ago, Cluttermagnet said:

I'm not a survivalist, and I'm getting too old now to have a bug out/head for the hills plan.

If the going gets really rough, I probably won't make it. But I'll at least go down fighting...

 

Yeah... heading to the hills isn't on my options list since I sold my cabin in NC a few years back. Too bad. It would be MUCH safer in that area than in this big metroplex I'm currently in.

 

The only thing I have hoarded these days is books (as always). I guess I might need them for cooking fires, eventually. Or, since I don't have anything to cook, maybe not. ;)

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Cluttermagnet
2 hours ago, zlim said:

There was a very interesting news story last night about a greens producer in Seingsgrove, BrightFarms. Everything is grown hydroponically.

https://www.wfmz.com/features/one-tank-trip/virtual-one-tank-trip-brightfarms/article_a6e73736-9ae1-11ea-9d79-c34b9226f80a.html

 

We never saw this brand. I went here https://www.brightfarms.com/storelocator/

and apparently one of the Giant stores in our are carries the brand.

 

We can't grow anything edible and a lot of flowers because of the deer. My husband has to spray our shrubs about every 3 - 4 weeks because they've almost managed to kill a few of those.

 

 

 

Very interesting virtual tour- thanks! Well, I'd certainly make a bunch of salads using their

produce. Also I can make green smoothies and throw a bunch of other stuff in, if I'm not

feeling lazy. Smoothies are kind of a 'fiddly' thing, but good.

 

I have one reservation, though- hydroponically grown food might come up wanting in the

nutrient department (not that CA produce grown in worn out soil is much better). I would

want to know more about what nutrients, if any, are in that water. I think the best answer,

for those who can access it, is produce grown in healthier soils with lots of natural

'amendments' worked in over the years (compost and certain minerals). And foods not

doused with insecticides or chemical fertilizers. I doubt they have to spray that greenhouse

crop, though- but I wonder what they might be putting in that water.

 

Clutter

 

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Cluttermagnet

Bill Gates' End Game Is Surveillance and Control

 

Quote

If this influential mega-billionaire gets his way, your future may be determined by whether or not you accept

the COVID-19 vaccine. For you to get back to your day-to-day life and business, you may have no choice but

to allow officials to embed your vaccine records in your body.

 

Dr. Mercola has it nailed. And sadly, I fear they are going to get away with it.

Too many of my fellow humans are beaten down by the system and are more

than ready to wave the white flag of surrender, lay down, and be trampled.

Meek compliance by the 'herd' (of cowards) means that life as I have known

it will be over for me. If not dead, then villified, stigmatized, and locked down

indefinitely. Oh joy...

 

Clutter

 

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Bookmem
1 hour ago, Cluttermagnet said:

Bill Gates' End Game Is Surveillance and Control

 

 

Dr. Mercola has it nailed. And sadly, I fear they are going to get away with it.

Too many of my fellow humans are beaten down by the system and are more

than ready to wave the white flag of surrender, lay down, and be trampled.

Meek compliance by the 'herd' (of cowards) means that life as I have known

it will be over for me. If not dead, then villified, stigmatized, and locked down

indefinitely. Oh joy...

 

Clutter

 

I doubt that even your irrational fear of vaccines will get you killed this time.  There will be enough sane people who will be only too happy to get vaccinated, to eliminate the spread.  Though you might, if you refuse the vaccine, be forced to be checked periodically to make sure you aren't a carrier.  I know I won't want anyone near me that hasn't been vaccinated.  So, yes, just like "Typhoid Mary", if you don't get vaccinated, you could wind up being shunned and quarantined.

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Cluttermagnet
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Bookmem said:

I doubt that even your irrational fear of vaccines will get you killed this time.  There will be enough sane people who will be only too happy to get vaccinated, to eliminate the spread.  Though you might, if you refuse the vaccine, be forced to be checked periodically to make sure you aren't a carrier.  I know I won't want anyone near me that hasn't been vaccinated.  So, yes, just like "Typhoid Mary", if you don't get vaccinated, you could wind up being shunned and quarantined.

 

Yep, I am willing to pay any price, even the ultimate price, to avoid being jabbed with

the latest vile concoction. Neither will I voluntarily allow myself to be 'forced' to do

anything! For the time being, I am completely uninterested in being tested. There is

little to trust in the latest, barking mad nightmare being foisted on us all in a naked

attempt to corral and control human beings who formerly took their hard won

freedoms for granted.

 

I find your smearing of my reasoning process as "irrational" offensive! Good people

can look at the same set of facts and reach very different conclusions! Oh, well,

I suppose you might think I am calling you a "coward" in my post above. Not the case.

But sometimes the 'herd' gets spooked and runs off a cliff in their irrational panic.

Sadly, carrying me along, to some degree...

 

Clutter

 

P.S. I can assure you that I am quite sane, and probably a good deal more

intellectually awake than most! Again, offensive speech. Please consider the

effect of your words on others. I have resisted any temptation to attack and skewer

you. Meanwhile, you deploy the tactics of smearing those who have a different,

equally valid view of the world. Please rethink how you are conducting yourself

with respect to me. Thanks! I'm only 10 years behind you, friend- and I have

compassion for you and your situation. I feel my strength and vitality slowly

ebbing. I am increasingly going to need to look to others for help and support

in my coming years. But I am a free man, and I intend to stand up and defend

my rights. If they are taken from me, it will be through coercion, force, even

violence. I do not seek any confrontation- or violence- but it is increasingly

clear that plenty of that is on the way...

 

Edited by Cluttermagnet

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Bookmem
7 minutes ago, Cluttermagnet said:

 

Yep, I am willing to pay any price, even the ultimate price, to avoid being jabbed with

the latest vile concoction. Neither will I voluntarily allow myself to be 'forced' to do

anything! For the time being, I am completely uninterested in being tested. There is

little to trust in the latest, barking mad nightmare being foisted on us all in a naked

attempt to corral and control human beings who formerly took their hard won

freedoms for granted.

 

I find your smearing of my reasoning process as "irrational" offensive! Good people

can look at the same set of facts and reach very different conclusions! Oh, well,

I suppose you might think I am calling you a "coward" in my post above. Not the case.

But sometimes the 'herd' gets spooked and runs off a cliff in their irrational panic.

Sadly, carrying me along, to some degree...

 

Clutter

 

I called your fear, not you, irrational.  And it is.  That is a fact, not an ad hominem attack.

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Cluttermagnet
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Bookmem said:

I called your fear, not you, irrational.  And it is.  That is a fact, not an ad hominem attack.

 

Fair enough, but understand that I take it as an ad hominem attack nonetheless.

The clear pattern in operation for some years now is to attack those who dissent-

smear them, marginalize them, drive them from the marketplace.

 

It is your opinion that my fears are irrational, not fact. In my opinion my fears are quite

rational under the circumstances. My position is well-reasoned and well-researched.

I have every right to hold a different opinion. Your remarks have been taken as insulting.

Sorry, but that is how I feel. And I am not going to allow you to drive me from the

marketplace of ideas.

 

Of course I doubt you bothered to read Mercola's piece to the bottom. Probably you

dismiss it as propaganda. The control freaks are out in full force. They are clearly

and unequivocally telegraphing their intentions for us all. They are not good for

human freedom. Mercola has summarized the present threat quite well IMO.

 

Clutter

 

Edited by Cluttermagnet

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Bookmem
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Cluttermagnet said:

 

Fair enough, but understand that I take it as an ad hominem attack nonetheless.

The clear pattern in operation for some years now is to attack those who dissent-

smear them, marginalize them, drive them from the marketplace.

 

It is your opinion that my fears are irrational. In my opinion my fears are quite

reasonable under the circumstances. My position is well-reasoned and well-researched.

I have every right to hold a different opinion. Your remarks have been taken as insulting.

Sorry, but that is how I feel. And I am not going to allow you to drive me from the

marketplace of ideas.

 

Of course I doubt you bothered to read Mercola's piece to the bottom. Probably you

dismiss it as propaganda. The control freaks are out in full force. They are clearly

and unequivocally telegraphing their intentions for us all. They are not good for

human freedom. Mercola has summarized the present threat quite well IMO.

 

Clutter

 

You can "infer" anything you like from my remarks.  However I DID NOT "imply" what you "inferred".  Your reaction in no way changes my intent.  When ALL of the clinical evidence favors vaccines and only anecdotal evidence is against it, then the fear is irrational.

Edited by Bookmem

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Cluttermagnet
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Bookmem said:

You can "infer" anything you like from my remarks.  However I DID NOT "imply" what you "inferred".  Your reaction in no way changes my intent.

 

Intent? I am not a mind reader. I experienced your responses as insulting and condescending.

Sorry, but that is how I feel when I read your words.

 

Clutter

 

P.S. I'd rather be friends, or at least respectful colleagues, rather than sparring partners.

Is there anything we can agree on?

 

Edited by Cluttermagnet

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Bookmem
3 minutes ago, Cluttermagnet said:

 

Intent? I am not a mind reader. I experienced your responses as insulting and condescending.

Sorry, but that is how I feel when I read your words.

 

Clutter

 

P.S. I'd rather be friends, or at least respectful colleagues, rather than sparring partners.

Is there anything we can agree on?

 

You have openly stated that anyone who disagrees with you is "attacking" you, so in order to remain your "friend", we have to either agree with you you, or at least accept your erroneous conclusions.  I'm not  willing to do either, but I  will stop responding.  Have a good day.

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securitybreach

Sorry but why would you believe anything Mercola says?

 

Quote

Joseph Michael Mercola /mərˈklə/[1] (born July 8, 1954) is an American alternative medicine proponent, osteopathic physician, and Internet businessman, who markets dietary supplements and medical devices,[2] some of which are controversial.............

On his website, Mercola and colleagues advocate a number of unproven alternative health notions including homeopathy and anti-vaccine positions which have faced persistent criticism.[6] Mercola is a member of the political advocacy group Association of American Physicians and Surgeons as well as several alternative medicine organizations.[7] Mercola's medical claims have been criticized by the medical, scientific, regulatory and business communities. A 2006 BusinessWeek editorial stated his marketing practices relied on "slick promotion, clever use of information, and scare tactics."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Mercola

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Cluttermagnet
Posted (edited)

 

 

Quote

Sorry but why would you believe anything Mercola says?

 

 

No, the question is really "...why would I not?"

 

I understand, generally, the principles of homeopathy. I have no direct experience with it.

Really don't know if it works or not. I suspect it does!

 

I do understand the issues in vaccination generally. It is a complicated subject but far

from unfathomable. I want nothing further to do with that twisted form of 'science'.

There is a growing counter-narrative emerging among educated, qualified, true

experts that says that we have it all wrong with vaccines. I don't care if they are a

minority (so far), because I happen to think that they are right.

 

Quoting Wikipedia? You can do better, Josh. An obviously biased source. I refer to

them often for a quick overview of things, and generally as a form of opposition

research. But I would not rely on what they say. I prefer to consult real experts in

numbers and weigh an issue before forming opinions. The people at Wikipedia are

rank amateurs, yet folks take them so seriously. A mistake, say I...

 

I have a very deep and wide respect for Dr. Mercola. He may be less than perfect,

but he's worth ten to a hundred conventionally-trained physicians, who have

become mainly pharmaceutical gateways. Mercola is about health and healing.

Western allopathic medicine is about disease and suffering. Their business model

works best for sick patients who 'need medicine'. Fortunately, there's a better way,

and people like Mercola (there are many now) point the way. People like him are

a direct threat to that sick business model, and those folks will do anything to try

to destroy people like him.

 

The last sentence in bold face from your Wikipedia quote is true in the sense

that Mercola does get widely criticized from many quarters. I get that. He

threatens so many. But sunlight is a great natural disinfectant. It is well past

time we put a little sunlight on Western medicine, the 'disease establishment'.

 

I'm not so stupid as to abandon allopathic medicine. I have a regular MD who

is pretty good. He's a good doctor and I like him, and no doubt he is helping

me deal with health challenges and remain healthy. He's a keeper.

No doubt if I have a serious injury I will get to an ER, because those guys are

really good at that! I'm grateful, by and large, to have access to 'modern'

medicine.

 

I haven't bought much from Mercola's offerings. He seems a little pricey to

me. But I sure support him in marketing like that. It makes him a living and

allows him to support a huge website chock full of great advice. It's a

treasure trove for those trying to remain healthy and to avoid pills and

surgery to the greatest extent possible and practical. There are often

better natural ways. Good foods and exercise would cure a lot of peoples'

ills. And unfortunately, so, too, with supplements- because the national

diet is so compromised and unhealthy these days. If we ate nutritionally

complete and adequate foods we would not need any supplements.

 

Let me respectfully remind us all that big pharma has become a leviathan

that pretty much owns the media now. Their heavy handed 'pills for all'

message pervades the airwaves. They have captured all the federal

government agencies now- and worst of all, they seem to have effective

control of social media, which are very heavy handedly censoring any

views contrary to the industry narrative. Even demonstrably true

counter-narratives backed up by many respected, legitimate experts,

often industry insiders who know only too well what carp is going

down here.. Fortunately the minority is still finding ways to get their

message out- so far...

 

It took decades, but pharma has managed to utterly, totally destroy

my trust and respect for them. Too bad, because once upon a time

they were good healers with laudable intentions. No, not everything

they do is bad, far from it! But they do hurt many now, and unnecessarily.

Just one classic example- the Vioxx scandal. After they had hurt enough

people (killed, actually), they shut it down in the US and kept right on

marketing it overseas.

 

If people want to be sickly and choose the 'disease model' of health,

that's their business. I want nothing of that! I drew the line when

they started to mandate. The childhood vaccination schedule is bad

enough- scandalous, really. I draw my line there. They are clearly now

elle bent on enslaving the entire population, their surveillance and

control intentions in plain sight for all to see. Religious types are

probably seeing the 'mark of the beast' from Revelations in the

personal ID'ing that the Cov19 vaccines are going to entail. We are

fated to be herded like cattle, surveiled, and marked for life. It is

only going to get worse and worse if folks don't wake up. But

ultimately folks are so beat down at this point that they probably

will do anything to escape quarantine...

 

Mercola is a good man. He's smart and knows what he's talking

about. I doubt anyone could shake my faith in him and his kind.

Theirs is a message of love and hope. That sick industry, OTOH,

is increasingly looking like a nest of venemous snakes to me.

It's the coercion, the scorched earth coercion that makes it all

so clear to me...

 

Clutter

 

Edited by Cluttermagnet

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Cluttermagnet
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Bookmem said:

You have openly stated that anyone who disagrees with you is "attacking" you, so in order to remain your "friend", we have to either agree with you you, or at least accept your erroneous conclusions.  I'm not  willing to do either, but I  will stop responding.  Have a good day.

 

Now that's just a little twisted IMO. You have mis-characterized what I have said to you.

But yes, let's give it a rest. I support you in that. You don't have to agree with me, and

I've made it clear in this thread I don't believe I'm going to win over anybody here.

Reread above, as necessary, if you don't believe that! I said it already.

 

You are the party who introduced the concept of ad hominem attack . I didn't

raise that. But I did, and do, find your remarks mocking and condescending.

 

Perhaps if you had put the word attacking, above, in single quotes instead of double,

your meaning might have been clearer. I am guessing that's what you meant, but

again, I am not a mind reader. You purport to quote me on something I never said!

 

Your opinion of my reasoning process is not fact, as you stated further above, it's your opinion.

Opinions are great. We can discuss or debate things, and out of the dialectic, we may learn new

things from each other- if we keep it generally friendly and mutually respectful.

 

Quote

I called your fear, not you, irrational.  And it is.  That is a fact, not an ad hominem attack.

 

(emphasis above mine)

 

Yours for motherhood, world peace, puppy dogs, kitties, and apple pie,

 

Clutter

 

(sarcasm alert)

 

 

Edited by Cluttermagnet

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securitybreach

Since you do not like wikipedia as a source, here are some sources from the wikipedia page:

 

Quote

In 2005, the FDA ordered Mercola to stop making drug claims — statements allowed only for FDA-approved medications — about three supplements being marketed on his website. In 2006, the FDA sent another warning letter, ordering him to stop making drug claims about four products that did not have drug clearance.

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/health/ct-met-fda-warns-mercola-20110425-story.html

 

 

Quote

In 2016, Mercola agreed to pay as much as $5.3 million in customer refunds to settle a complaint by federal regulators that he made false claims about the health benefits and safety of tanning beds he sold.

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/an-anti-vaxxers-new-crusade

 

 

 

Quote

Claiming cancer risks arise from mobile phone radiation, which is pseudoscientific.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/19/style/could-wearable-computers-be-as-harmful-as-cigarettes.html?_r=0

 

 

Quote

Claims that many commercial brands of sunscreen increase, rather than decrease, the likelihood of contracting skin cancer with high UV exposure, and instead advocating the use of natural sunscreens, some of which he markets on his website.This view is not held by mainstream medical science; in 2011, the National Toxicology Program stated that "Protection against photodamage by use of broad-spectrum sunscreens is well-documented as an effective means of reducing total lifetime UV dose and, thereby, preventing or ameliorating the effects of UV radiation on both the appearance and biomechanical properties of the skin. 

 

Photococarcinogenesis Study of Retinoic Acid and Retinyl Palmitate -- https://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/htdocs/lt_rpts/tr568_508.pdfhttps://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/htdocs/lt_rpts/tr568_508.pdf

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Cluttermagnet

Interesting that, using only Scot's Forums, I have been able to confirm in spades

the horror stories I have been reading about how hounded and mistreated folks

have been when on the major social media platforms. The point being that the

majority is now so conditioned to attack the messenger that they will not

tolerate any dissent to the party line. In this particular case, the agenda is that

of pharma, but there are others. No, no, I'm not saying I have been attacked

here in the same way. Quite the contrary, I've received at least a polite hearing

from others- though clearly I am surrounded by sceptics. I'm fully OK with that.

But where I am right now is new territory, and I have decided to speak up for

the first time in my life. Oh, I'll get tired of it and take a break. Probably soon.

(cheers and applause in the background)

 

One other area I'm pretty familiar with is the area of UFO-ology. Once again, the

MO is to ridicule the messenger, and we see that in spades out on the net. But

once again it is getting increasingly hard to discredit the messenger, despite

how goofy and over the top a lot of those UFO fanboys are. There is the

matter of the "Wilson Papers". Look it up if you care to. Very interesting! Then

there is the embarrassing fact that there is US Navy 'gun camera' footage out

there showing how very fast and agile some of these encountered craft are.

The Navy has now officially declassified that footage and admitted it is

legitimate. They falsely claim, however, that they don't know what it is.

Baloney! True believers have known it's for real for over 70 years now. The

cloak of secrecy will sooner or later crumble under its own sheer weight.

By that time, however, 'they' will have the population so dumbed down,

fearful, and docile that it probably won't matter. They'll all just turn back to

their favorite TV programs.

 

I can't change the world single-handed. Not even trying. But unforeseen

events can! I'm rooting for mankind to save itself once again. It has in

the past... Miracles are simply things which happen which our limited

intellectual abilities don't allow us to foresee- then they happen anyway.

I'm very much hoping for a miracle because things look increasingly

desperate right now.

 

Clutter

 

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securitybreach

Nobody is trying to attack you but some of the people you have quoted are quacks at best. With all the misinformation out there, it is hard to not get caught up in it all. 

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Cluttermagnet

Wow, you have covered a lot of territory, Josh. It's true Mercola should be very careful

indeed in any claims he makes, because there are a lot of industry folks gunning for

him. I wouldn't doubt stories like the tanning beds settlement. I don't know the facts

in that case. But the mainstream media often gives a one-sided account of events.

I'd have to research that one before I reached any conclusions. Nonetheless, it

wouldn't shake my admiration for him or faith in him one bit. I think he is a good man.

 

I don't know if the bad press about mobile phone radiation is entirely true, but it

looks like an increasing number of cancer cases are popping up. Going strictly by

memory at the moment, I believe the Eu authorities have rated cell phone radiation

dangerous if not outright carcinogenic. 5G looks to be a freakin' nightmare in that

regard, due to the higher frequencies better ability to penetrate the body and really

mess with its normal functioning. Mercola may be overly concerned, I don't know

yet, but I do believe he has some basis for his concern. I generally agree with

where he is on this issue.

 

The 2005 article you cite isn't about drug claims for supplements, as written, it is

rather about claims being made about a breast thermal imaging camera as an

alternative to mammograms using conventional Xray tech. I don't know enough

about that particular case to comment, but I'll just point out: look whose oxen

is being gored- the lucrative cancer/oncology field. Yep they will come after him

like a bat out of hill, every chance they get. So for me, it devolves into one of those

'consider the source' areas. Mercola was apparently encouraging the use if a less

dangerous imaging tech that doesn't involve dangerous ionizing radiation (Xrays).

Seems laudable if for that reason. But again, he needs to be very careful about

any claims he is making. They're out to get him. That was 2005. I'm sure he has

learned a few hard lessons along the way.

 

Clutter

 

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Cluttermagnet
Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, securitybreach said:

Nobody is trying to attack you but some of the people you have quoted are quacks at best. With all the misinformation out there, it is hard to not get caught up in it all. 

 

Some of the people being labeled 'quacks' are most assuredly not! The quack label

is way overused by industry zealots to try to quash competition. If someone has

been labeled a quack, that gives me additional incentive to investigate and come

to my own conclusion. It just piques my curiosity, it doesn't drive me away.

 

I would just add that 'ad hominem' attacks on someone's qualifications or character

hold no water with me. I've been around long enough and have seen it time after time.

It tips me off to how weak the argument is of the person making the charges.

People like that don't want any real debate so they try to smear their opponent to

get out of actually having to defend their argument. It's like "...Hey! What's that over

there?" A distraction.

 

It amazes me how often that dirty, underhanded tactic actually works, however.

If I say to you "Don't think of a paisley elephant", you are going to think, however

briefly, of a paisley elephant. The brain doesn't understand- or process- any

negatives, pretty much. That is pretty much what ad hominem accomplishes.

A pretty good distractor to derail debate...

 

Clutter

Edited by Cluttermagnet

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abarbarian
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Cluttermagnet said:

Eu authorities have rated cell phone radiation

dangerous if not outright carcinogenic

 

That is a load of bovine scatology.

 

However,

 

https://www.androidauthority.com/5g-dangers-895776/

 

Quote

Many studies have looked at if radio frequency electromagnetic radiation (RF EMR) can affect healthy people. A literature review in 2009, and the 2010 Interphone study both summarized the lack of findings on this topic quite well. In 2011, the World Health Organization (WHO) declared cellphones as a Class 2B carcinogen, meaning the technology may be linked to cancer. This does not instantly imply the level of exposure from commercial products is dangerous. Other Class 2B carcinogens include pickles, aloe vera leaf extract, and being a firefighter. The semantics are important here.

 

The important information above has been highlighted in red. So it seems that your warning is sort of right.Well done for highlighting this serious health risk.

 

However,

 

https://shop.mercola.com/product/185/1/aloe-vera-8-fl-oz-1-bottle

 

You may feel a need to ask the question why your hero Dr Mercola is selling and indeed promoting the health benefits of aloe vera products made from the juice of the leaf. A plant that has been classed by the World Health Authority as a Class 2B carcinogen - meaning the technology may be linked to cancer.

 

Will you be posting on Facebook or Tweeting about the truly horrendous actions of Dr Mercola selling highly dangerous cancer causing products? 

 

I doubt it.

 

10 hours ago, Cluttermagnet said:

5G looks to be a freakin' nightmare in that

regard, due to the higher frequencies better ability to penetrate the body and really

mess with its normal functioning. Mercola may be overly concerned,

 

Once again pure and total bovine scatology.

 

You are probably basing this fantasy on this,

 

Quote

In addition to poorly conducted studies, poor scientific theory is often used to whip up fear in wireless technologies too. One often-cited example is the warning letter sent to Broward County Public School by scientist Dr. Bill P. Curry in 2000.

 

https://www.androidauthority.com/5g-dangers-895776/

 

Quote

In the letter, Curry includes an infamous graph highlighting “Microwave Absorption in Brain Tissue (Grey Matter).” The graph proposes that the level of radiation received by human brains increases exponentially as the frequency of the wireless signal increases. This already seemed like bad news given network frequencies at the time and would be even more worrying with the adoption of 5G mmWave signals. To hammer the point home, Curry preys on the acute vulnerability of developing brains in children.

 

The real science shows,


 

Quote

 

However, there’s a problem – this graph is completely wrong.

Numerous experts on the biological effects of electromagnetic radiation confirm the opposite opinion. Higher frequency radio waves are safer, not more dangerous, until you reach extremely high frequencies such as X-rays. The reason for this is human skin offers a protective boundary that reflects high frequencies, protecting internal organs. Higher frequency radio waves are less likely to reach your brain than lower frequency waves. Curry’s graphic is simply not based on actual scientific evidence.

 
 

With 5G, the very high frequencies used by mmWave are reflected to such an extent that hand placement over your phone’s antenna can block the signal. The reflective properties of these waves are also what allows beamforming techniques to be used to bounce signals around corners. Simply put, 5G is not going to microwave your brain.

 

 

😎

Edited by abarbarian

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6 hours ago, abarbarian said:

With 5G, the very high frequencies used by mmWave are reflected to such an extent that hand placement over your phone’s antenna can block the signal. The reflective properties of these waves are also what allows beamforming techniques to be used to bounce signals around corners. Simply put, 5G is not going to microwave your brain.

 

 

Good thing as my current phone is a 5G phone. Oneplus 8 5G (tmobile)

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With 5G, the very high frequencies used by mmWave are reflected to such an extent that hand placement over your phone’s antenna can block the signal. The reflective properties of these waves are also what allows beamforming techniques to be used to bounce signals around corners.

 

Oh piffle. This is obvious nonsense. While on the one hand I am not expert on 5G per se, I would

qualify as somewhat of an expert on radio waves and propagation, having devoted some 57

years now to the study and practical application of this field.

 

Waves of quite a broad range of frequencies can be reflected. They do not, however, have

intrinsic "reflective properties". That's utter rubbish. I can't tell a wave "OK, bend right here".

Nonsense. What I have to do is to provide a carefully aligned reflector, which is a

conductor entirely separate from the antenna or antenna array emitting the radio wave.

So that reflector could rightly be viewed as an entirely separate antenna. A reflector will

indeed deflect a beam of RF energy. "Bounce signals around corners"? I laugh out loud at

such woefully obvious ignorance. The author has a POV (point of view). He has a

viewpoint. He has an axe to grind. And he clearly demonstrates he doesn't know what

the elle he is talking about!

 

Quote

human skin offers a protective boundary that reflects high frequencies, protecting internal organs

 

Laughable. Egregiously wrong! Totally, demonstrably untrue. Let me explain...

 

If you use arrays of antennas near each other and carefully aligned, you can form

quite narrow and therefore potent tight beams of RF energy. True dat. Take a theoretical

one Watt transmitter signal. We can choose to focus it loosely like a very wide flashlight

beam, or, with beam-forming techniques, we can tighten it very much so it more resembles

a high pressure stream coming out of a water hose. In either case, we have a total of one

Watt of RF energy. 5G is going to be tightened down as much as they can get it using

electrical steering among arrays of individual transmit antennas- so more like the water

hose analogy. So that one Watt in this example becomes quite intense within the beam.

Visualize a more focused flashlight inside of a very big balloon. You get one very bright

'dot' of light somewhere on the skin of that big balloon; everywhere else on the skin

of the balloon, it is pretty much dark. That is beam-forming visualized.

 

Now, this is where it gets interesting. The author above is claiming that the skin of your

hand reflects the signal from the 5G device. Here he demonstrates his clear lack of

knowledge about the field of RF propagation, which he is so boldly pontificating about.

It's true that the hand effectively blocks the beam; however it is far more likely due to

absorption in the tissues than any reflection. Oh, OK- I'd buy the authors argument if

we all had conductive metal hands. Utter rubbish. He clearly demonstrates here that

he has no idea really about how these millimeter waves actually work.

 

OK, so absorption, not reflection. In fact, absorption is such a great problem

at these increasingly high frequencies that that's why the 5G antenna engineers know

you need not only beam-forming techniques, but you need to put the 5G transmit/

receive antenna array very close to peoples' houses, say within about a hundred feet

or less. Think about it this way guys- ever heard about the problem with satellite TV

and rain? I sure have. That rain, which wouldn't affect my emitted waves at 7MHz,

decimates a GHz microwave signal- and the TV reception gets spotty. Absorption

causes attenuation of the signal- it gets weaker. If you have attenuation, you

have to boost the signal to still get through, and that is what the beam-forming is all

about with 5G.

 

I should have little trouble digging up several truly expert studies which attest

to the dangers of absorbtion of RF energy by animal tissues. In fact, both the US

and the Eu have laws that affect the operators of most radio transmitters. As a

Radio Amateur for some 57 years now, and a person who made their living

applying this scientific field, I can tell you that certain frequencies are much more

dangerous, and the danger increases with frequency. I am required to calculate

the field strength of my radio emissions and confirm that I am not creating a

hazard for any neighbors or anyone walking by or driving by my house. In my

case, I easily pass this test, and am way, way below the threshold of any safety

concerns. It does get a little dicey, however, for microwaves (cell phone towers

etc.) and millimeter waves (5G). I for one would not be willing to live anywhere

near a cell tower! And they get away with putting them in school yards in my

area. Scandalous! I know of one such example at an elementary school within

a mile of me. I own an RF leakage meter which will measure the intensity of the

signals from my wireless devices, or leakage from my microwave ovens etc.

There are some moderately hazardous levels close to my devices. My meter

won't even measure the higher ranges which will eventually be used with 5G,

but it will measure the lower ranges they are starting with- so I can at least get

some indication, once these dangerous 5G 'pods' start going up near humans.

 

This is an area of high controversy! It is difficult to set up experiments because

you would have to unethically expose animals or humans to dangerous RF

radiation and cause some harm, as you slowly work through creating tables

of harm vs. exposure amounts. We are seeing enough anecdotal evidence

now to conclude that it is a very bad idea to be very close to an

operating cellphone for hours on end! People are starting to pop up brain

cancers at rates higher than seen in the past, pre-cellphones. It is indeed

conjectured in the scientific community that 5G may be quite a lot worse than

even that! Present 'worst case' for cell phones is juveniles holding the device

right next to the head. Ouch! Gets better fast, the more distance you 'dial in',

even a few feet.

 

ASK YOURSELF: If humans were perfectly reflective of all radio waves (or at least 5G),
then why do governments have rules about how intense radio emissions from transmitters
can be? Further, why are the limits on emissions frequency related? Could it be
anything to do with human tissues *ABSORBING* RF radiation? If we were reflective,
why would they bother with such rules? Hmmmmm?

 

Here in the US, we have the FCC (Federal Communications Commission),

just one of many federal agencies that has been completely captured by

industry hacks. They are rushing through 5G although there have been

few if any studies as to the dangers of 5G. Go figure. Once again, we are

to be used as human guinea pigs to satisfy industry's lust for profits-

and the consequences be dammed. This so exactly parallels what is

happening with vaccination, where greedy corporations, following the

scent of big dollars, and their lap dog captured federal agencies like FDA,

FTC, NIH, CDC, are all elle bent on cramming dangerous chemicals down

our collective throats. It is so, very, very wrong what these malevolent

parties are doing!

 

Personally, I believe that 5G is going to eventually be proven to be quite

a potent danger to humans. Of course it will be too late by then- 5G

towers all over human neighborhoods, legions of folks sick from the

radiation...

 

Clutter

 

 

 

Edited by Cluttermagnet

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Mercola Healthy Skin Aloe Vera contains Cucumber and Green Tea Extracts and 100%

pure Aloe Vera Gel to soothe and moisturize your skin.

 

My Aloe Vera is even ideal as a daily moisturizer, hair-styling and shaving gel.

 

Despite these relatively innocuous claims as to product uses, there are no claims evident

regarding safety or efficacy. Nonetheless, he wisely includes the standard boilerplate disclaimer:

 

Quote

*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.
These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

 

Yes, Dr. Mercola did eventually become a hero of sorts to me personally, and I generally

trust his advice, which I sometimes cross check with other sources. He's a good man.

I trust him way more than industry hacks with obvious conflict of interest! (Including,

sadly, many allopathic physicians (M.D.'s) who quietly express their misgivings about

the 'party line' in confidence to interviewers, but who OTOH don't dare defy or object

publically- they have families, other mouths to feed...)

 

Quote

...So it seems that your warning is sort of right. Well done for highlighting this serious health risk.

 

Thank you sincerely. I'm going to take your off-handed, 'sort of' compliment at face value.

 

The Dr. Bill P. Curry 2000 letter and the link following that you give are thought provoking.

Right off the cuff, the "Android Authority" is a cell phone/smart phone vendor, and would

therefore have strong bias, more likely than not. But as I have said, there exists a whole

lot of controversy in this subject area. Much more work is needed!

 

You know, the US FCC, despite it's obvious lack of impartiality, does impose cell phone

emission limits for safety reasons. I recently saw an article showing lab test results

proving that several popular brands of cell phones were exceeding those limits. I can

probably dig it back out if you insist. What's darned difficult is extrapolating to the

millimeter waves from what little we do know about microwave radiation. But as I see

it, and until proven otherwise, I believe the argument for reflectivity of human skin

to millimeter waves is a weak one at best. More data is badly needed. But never mind,

FCC has gone ahead and approved this 5G beast, it's probably nearly too late anyway.

It's all academic. We're all lab rats! Enjoy your 'cheese', boys... (fast 5G internet)

 

One last thought- why do the 5G engineers use beam-forming? Because they have to,

due to the high 'path loss' (attenuation) between the 5G array out on the pole and

the customer devices inside a shelter. The real world propagation is complicated and

may involve multiple parallel paths at any given moment. Moreover the technology

will likely have to deal with 'multi-path distortion', which can be mitigated but it is

rather sophisticated how they accomplish this electronically. Bottom line- those building

materials are partly transparent to the millimeter waves but they do to some degree

reflect, and, especially, to attenuate! Thus the beam-forming, which can take

a Watt or so of RF and jack it up to orders of magnitude more Watts per square cm.

All this to overcome the attenuation. As always, there is a direct correlation between

RF intensity and the level of danger to animals exposed to it!

 

The US military is known to have millimeter wave devices designed specifically for

crowd control/crowd dispersal. Exposure to their rays is said to produce an intense

burning sensation. If human skin were reflective, this would not be happening!

Here is prima facie  evidence of skin absorption! Several test subjects did receive

blisters and burns from the device. If the subject crowd had magical powers

and could instantly conjure up a big metal parabola and focus it back on the device

operator, he would power it down pronto and high tail it outta there... :w00tx100:

 

Active Denial System

 

Clutter

 

Edited by Cluttermagnet

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https://youtu.be/rfgB_Hdasns

(47 second Gates shortie video clip)

 

Bill Gates admits the efficacy of vaccines for older folks is a little thin;

also that the untested vaccine eventually unleashed on the population

by force will sicken or kill perhaps 700,000, so immunity from prosecution

will be needed for himself and all those involved in this massive violation

of human rights. But the vaccine makers already enjoy just such

immunity from prosecution if their product harms you in any way.

 

That camp is seeing very strong pushback from those who refuse to

be subjected to the risk of being injected with such a potentially

dangerous substance. Rather than violent home invasions, they may

more likely resort to locking down refusers- house arrest, banning from

public places, even masked (though we masked people are presently

allowed to buy groceries. etc.), inability to maintain accounts with banks,

inability to find and/or hold a job without proof of the jab(s),

restrictions on travel in general, even domestically- and

more, no doubt. Public naming and shaming, possibly leading to online

attacks- and worse- by some of the wing nuts out there. Ostracizing,

shunning- the list is long. Oh, joy...

 

Quote

JAW-DROPPING: Gates acknowledges even flu shots aren’t effective for older adults and issues

an (almost) unbelievable warning

 

Vaccines, of course, are not foolproof nor fully effective even when provided a more appropriate

amount of time for research and development. Gates admits as much in a recent interview with

CNBC, where he bluntly states that even the seasonal “flu vaccine isn’t that effective” in older

people – the exact population of people who are targeted for the vaccine itself.

 

Gates also has some brazen things to say about the CV vaccine currently in the pipeline. View the

video ... to listen for yourself...

 

We have to ask ourselves:

Why does Bill Gates always have a habit of smiling when he talks about people getting hurt?

“We clearly need a vaccine that works in the upper age range because they’re most at risk,” Gates

says. Because of this, he suggests the CV vaccine will need to be made more potent (“you have to

amp it up”) in order to work for older people – as well as, we presume, all the younger healthy

people who will be told to take it, too. And because of this increase in potency, Gates casually

estimates that at least 700,000 people will “suffer” from side effects of whatever vaccine gets

created.

 

We know the CV vaccine is going to be propagandized as a “necessary” step in protecting the

community and especially its most vulnerable people. Yet from the mouth of one of the loudest,

most influential, and wealthiest drug pushers out there, we’re now hearing confirmation that

widespread health consequences are certain. All this for a drug that will be rapidly made and

furiously pushed out onto the market.

 

Tell us again the level of cognitive dissonance required to tout this “solution” as safe

and effective(?)

 

https://www.naturalhealth365.com/bill-gates-vaccine-research-3413.html

 

Oh- and why does Gates smile when he talks about people getting hurt?

Clutter's answers to that pretty obvious question:

 

(1.) Gates does not at all seem to like or care about people.

(2.) In  fact he is strongly identified with eugenics- he would

prefer to see a lot less people in the world- much mounting evidence

which makes that point abundantly clear.

(3.) He is so rich he can buy pretty much anything he wants now,

within reason, and clearly he really, really wants this- and stands to

make boatloads of money off of vaccines.

 

I stopped liking the guy years ago. He has lost my respect.

 

Clutter

 

Edited by Cluttermagnet

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Cluttermagnet

Yep, already saw that, Josh. I'd say Gates did fairly well with establishing the Windows

operating system, so commercial blunders like Zune should probably stand as

'excusable'. And of course, the jury is still out on how successful Gate's scorched

earth vac campaign will turn out to be in the end. It is not inconceivable that public

opinion may turn against this in the end. Stranger things have happened...

 

Clutter

 

P.S. Not all of this can be viewed as a 'sinister plot'. Amazingly, a whole lot of this

campaign is going on right out in the open, right under peoples' noses! The liars and

obfuscators for that industry are having a freakin' field day!

 

Edited by Cluttermagnet

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