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jeffw_00

Is windows 10 for me?

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Hi - My wife and I have 4 desktops (1 for me, 1 for her, 2 used part-time for her home business). She also has a lightly-used Dell laptop. We value an O/S that does its job, doesn't obstruct us from doing our jobs, and generally fades into the background and stays out of the way. Thus, we upgrade our O/S only when we have to, and only to one that's been out for a while and declared "stable" by the world.

 

We switched to XP from WIn98SE in 2004, and to Win7 in 2014. We planned to stay with Win7 until 2020 when it's support was discontinued. However, the idea of saving $500+ has us -thinking about moving to Windows 10 now. So, is Windows 10 for us?

 

We don't have tablets, or fancy laptops (but all our HW is new enough to support W10). We don't value the apps that come with the O/S, we're not into media development. We use our PCs for financial apps, non-microsoft browsers, non-microsoft music players, remote access (I work from home sometimes as well), and various little helper apps.

 

In terms of stability, and compatibility with the universe of apps (especially financial/business apps that tend to lag behind) is Windows 10 anywhere close to where WIndows 7 was in 2014?

 

Also - will my various DOS and Perl scripts that I use for system maintenance and backups need any re-write?

 

Thanks in advance for your advice!

 

Best

/j

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Hi jeffw,

I have had a little experience with windows 10. I am running a Lenovo B590 laptop with Intel's 3rd gen i3 processor (quad core) and 4 GB of ram. I had win 10 installed on a virtual machine, accessing exactly half of this, and it ran quite smoothly (I could even play some less resource-hogging games without a performance hit), so if you intend on sticking with Windows, It might not be a bad idea to at least download an ISO before Microsoft start charging for it. As far as compatibility issues and your scripts are concerned I can't be of much use, I only installed some basic stuff (Libreoffice, etc) to test the OS.

If you don't necessarily need Windows, It appears to me that Debian is about as stable as you can get. The only major problem I can foresee is that some of the financial / business apps you mentioned may not be available, however there may well be a similar alternative. I hope this is of use to you.

J.

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As I understand it...

You can update to Windows 10 to lock in your "free" license (or whatever they're calling it), and then revert back to Windows 7 within 30 days. This gives you a short opportunity to decide if you want to keep it, or wait until a later date without the extra cost.

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with Windows 10.

By using "classic start menu" (or equivalent), I can choose a familiar interface.

By using "Shutup10" (or equivalent), I can control how much gets "phoned home".

 

A potential "down side" is, if you're on dial-up, the forced updates may come at an inconvenient time.

There may be a work around involving "metered connection", but I haven't looked into that.

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Good idea Pete - I've read that the roll-back is clean - that may be the best solution.

 

Does W10 generally work like W7? Will I need a new book to learn how to admin it?

 

Thanks!

/j

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Good idea Pete - I've read that the roll-back is clean - that may be the best solution.

 

Does W10 generally work like W7? Will I need a new book to learn how to admin it?

 

Thanks!

/j

Someone else should answer that. I went directly from Windows 98SE to Windows 8... Never had Windows 7.

I didn't need a "book", but there was/is a trial & error period.

 

"Classic Start Menu" shortened the learning curve for Windows 8.

Keeping it, gave me the "best of both worlds" on Windows 10.

 

I was pleasantly surprised at how many of my old programs still worked.

IMHO, 30 days should be more than sufficient to see how it handles your scripts.

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My take - having upgraded my two machines and 4 others in the neighborhood.

  1. If you have Windows 8 it's a no-brainer. Windows 10 is so much better that you can't lose. Install Classic Shell, hide the annoying Cortana and you'll be just like Windows 7.
     
  2. If you are upgrading from Windows 7 make sure your reserved partition is large enough if you have an OEM installation. Some folks I know had only a 100 MB partition and you need at least 350 MB. You'll get Windows 10 installed and then all the following upgrades fail.
    http://www.dpreview..../thread/3889921
    You can use a free DVD from Minitool Partition Wizard to make the reserved partition larger.
     
  3. Otherwise it's a pretty smooth upgrade. Some folks here are worried about Microsoft spyware and their privacy but I don't use any Microsoft apps other than Windows itself. Besides Google already knows everything about me anyway.
  4. Not sure if I'd upgrade from Windows 7 if that's the only machine I had. But I had a Windows 7 and a Windows 8 machine so I made them both the same.
  5. If you have Bitdefender antivirus then the old version won't work and you'll have to uninstall and reinstall the security software. I don't think ESET would give the same problem.

Edited by raymac46
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well, i have a bit of experience with W10 on various pcs and laptops.I mostly agree with raymac46.

If you have W8 or W8.1 don't even think about it , just do it. But give the OS shell a try before installing ClassicShell (or something similar) and don't be so quick to ignore Cortana.

 

If you are quite happy with W7 and not using any sort of touch interface, I'd just keep it. By the time you decide you need to move to W10 your pc will probably be old enough that you will want a newer pc - which will come with a current variant of W10

 

In any case, if you decide to do an inplace update to W10 , make 2 backups before proceeding, one of them an image (i like 'Image for Windows').

 

After you install W10, go through the options if you are the type who doesn't want to let MSFT know telemetry. Do not accept the default express option and go through the list of items you don't want to participate in (note that the more you opt off the less likely the OS will be able to fix or anticipate issues on its own). Part of the list is also what not to let Cortana know, the more items you opt of that the less the pc will be like a smartphone. Your choices. (me? i'm paranoid as they come but i participate in telemetry and since my phone is set to let me know about appts etc, my W10 is as well.)

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Thanks crp. I never buy new machines - I just upgrade HW when it needs it, and upgrade the OS when it needs it. Win7 was annoying because it was the first fresh install I did since WIN95. I do use IFW, it's excellent.

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..........But give the OS shell a try before installing ClassicShell (or something similar) ......

When I said "ClassicShell" gave me the best of both,,,, I have it configured so.....

 

A left-click on the start button gives me the traditional start menu that I've selected. Good for access to the less frequently used programs/functions, and comfortably familiar.

 

A middle-click on the start button, gives me the Windows 10 menu. Good for frequently used programs, that don't have shortcuts on the desktop, or the tray. The so called "modern app" tiles can be accessed more readily than they can on one of the classic menus.

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Hello,

 

Oops, sorry, I just saw this--traveling for work right now so am busy playing forum catch-up.

 

At the beginning of the year I gave a webinar on whether small to medium businesses should upgrade to Windows 10. However, a lot of what I covered is also applicable to home users.

 

There are some definitive benefits in upgrading to Windows 10 in terms of security and hardware support (especially for the newest laptops) but there are also some trade-offs to consider as well.

 

Here's a link to a blog post about it: Should I stay or I should I go... to Windows 10?

Here's a link to a recording of the presentation: Windows 10 is here - Are you ready to migrate? (registration required, but at least it's free)

Here's a link to the slide deck: Windows 10: Should you go there? [PDF]

 

I just gave a revised version of the presentation about six hours ago at a conference for my employer. I'll try to get the new slide deck up somewhere where you can download it. Next week, I'll have a ~35 page white paper out on Windows 10's security and privacy, too,

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

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Thanks very much Goretsky. As always your reply is worth the (actually very small) wait!. My wife runs a small business and that's the primary use of most of our machines. So I will be reading your links in the next few days. Thanks!

/j

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Hello,

Oops, sorry, I just saw this--traveling for work right now so am busy playing forum catch-up.

At the beginning of the year I gave a webinar on whether small to medium businesses should upgrade to Windows 10. However, a lot of what I covered is also applicable to home users.

[...]

I just gave a revised version of the presentation about six hours ago at a conference for my employer. I'll try to get the new slide deck up somewhere where you can download it. Next week, I'll have a ~35 page white paper out on Windows 10's security and privacy, too,

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky

Just want to note that a lot has changed since beginning of the year so worth waiting another week for the new revised version presentation..
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However, because of the July 29 deadline for getting your free version, it might be worth getting it and then reverting if you don't like it, so you have a registered license. Or just get used to it. It has been out long enough to have gotten most of the bugs out. The only exception is going to be certain programs or printers not supported. Having said that, a very old version of MyMailingList actually installed and a very old version of Microsoft Streets and Maps ... had to fight with Streets for a few minutes, but I won. ;) MyMailingList was older but actually worked easier! Go figure. An HP workhorse LaserJet 1020 installed on it's own with no intervention, or drivers to be installed and a Photosmart 7520 eAll in One was easily installed via downloaded file from HP.

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I was quite the diehard Windows 7 advocate. But since Windows 10 has matured, and stability has advanced, and software and hardware are not as much of an issue as expected, plus Cortana, as crp mentioned should at least be given a try if you have a microphone or a camera with a built in mic. I personally love Cortana. The left mouse and right mouse options on the four white windows 'start menu' really makes Windows 10 work well. Windows 7 style Backup and Image creation is back as well as File History. All three have their places. Printers do well generally but should check compatibility list if you have a very old printer.

 

And now that July 29, 2016 will herald an end to the free Windows 10 upgrade, it would in many cases be the best choice.

 

If you use the HyperVisor for Windows XP for certain program, you would want to see about converting to VirtualBox or VMWare unless Microsoft changed their mind about not supporting HyperVisor in Windows 10.

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Oh, and it is wise to use your Microsoft/Hotmail account to login to your computer to be able to make us of apps. There are a fair amount of helpful and/or fun apps available, and it also makes it easier for certain other apps such as Skype, etc.

 

Creating a PIN after (PIN is created out of a hash of Microsoft email and password as far as I heard which makes it more secure than using username/email and password and easier).

Edited by LilBambi
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Thanks - but if I have to log in after every reboot - that's going to be annoying....

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It's your choice.

A lot of privacy advocates recommend using a "local account".

If you use a lot the Microsoft "Apps" frequently, using a "Microsoft account" saves you from having to log into each one separately.

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I don't use Microsoft Apps (unless Office 2003 counts :-}), and if someone breaks into my house, god forbid, my least worry is that he accesses my PC :-}

 

Is Windows 10 going to have me entering passwords and dealing with security prompts at every turn? If so, no thank you!

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........Is Windows 10 going to have me entering passwords and dealing with security prompts at every turn? If so, no thank you!

No...

Except for the higher speed, my online and computing life isn't much different than when I was using Windows 98.

I'm using a local account, and since only my wife and I have access, I have it set to login automatically after a boot.

If burglars (or the FBI or NSA) take my computer, they'll have complete access.

 

My wife keeps hers at her business where others could get at it, so hers is set up to require logging in.

 

Like I said earlier, if you're undecided, you can "lock-in" your license(s), and go back (within 30 days).

If you're a "belt and suspenders" person. Make a disk image(s) before you start fooling around.

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HI Pete! - Thanks - that's actually what I'm going to try over Memorial Day weekend. (the lock-in)

I make disk images every day (weekly full, daily differential). so I should be set :-}

best

/j

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Hello,

 

The changes that have gone into Windows 10 since its initial showing to the public have been... well, i don't want to say dramatic, but let's say there's been lots and lots of small things which cumulatively add up?

 

It took me ~10 months to finish the white paper. During that time, I had to throw away and re-write 18 pages of it because Microsoft kept changing things.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

 

 

Hello,

Oops, sorry, I just saw this--traveling for work right now so am busy playing forum catch-up.

At the beginning of the year I gave a webinar on whether small to medium businesses should upgrade to Windows 10. However, a lot of what I covered is also applicable to home users.

[...]

I just gave a revised version of the presentation about six hours ago at a conference for my employer. I'll try to get the new slide deck up somewhere where you can download it. Next week, I'll have a ~35 page white paper out on Windows 10's security and privacy, too,

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky

Just want to note that a lot has changed since beginning of the year so worth waiting another week for the new revised version presentation..

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Yes, I would say the changes have been dynamic since the beginning releases of Windows 10.

 

I was not at all happy with Windows 10 when it first came out. But it has changed so much since then. And well worth a try now.

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I agree that Windows 10 is a pretty good O/S but the way Microsoft is forcing it upon its customers is inexcusable.

My wife's friend got an unexpected upgrade that she felt was beyond her control. I checked it out and made sure she was comfortable after the fact, and she will be fine - but that still doesn't justify the cavalier way she was treated.

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Ok - the answer is Windows 10 is NOT for me (at least yet). I've tried upgrading a few machines. In all cases i went back to Windows 7. Reasons include

 

a) stronger "rules". I want updates applied on MY schedule, not theirs (I wait until right AFTER a daily image backup). I DON'T want Windows Defender. If I wanted "their way or the highway" I'd use a Mac :-}.

 

b ) Much slower boot. I don't know what it's doing after I get my desktop, but the time from getting the desktop to having all the startup programs (antivirus, etc) running, is much longer than windows 7. (like a minute).

 

c) less stable O/S. In using it for an hour on different machines, I experienced complete hangs and bad process prioritizing (I had a backup validation which used a lot of memory keep me from doing ANYTHING else, including getting to the CTRL/ALT/DEL menu - it hung up preparing the menu until the validate completed. This app (IFW) shares just fine on Win7). Also, seems like there's a lot of busy background processes slowing stuff down, preventing backups from even starting (they need other processes to stop writing to disk).

 

d) On one machine, running my backup program (IFW) in Win 10, it claimed I had bad sectors on my disk. I tried running chkdsk (annoying to use because you can't see details), and it appeared to hang (!). I reverted to Win 7, and both the chkdsk and backup ran clean.

 

Here's hoping W10 is more stable by 2019. I'm sticking to Win7 until then. I have better things to do with my life than wrestle with the O/S. Win 7 just seems less ambitious and so less troublesome.

 

Just my $.02. I respect that others may disagree. :-}

/j

 

 

PS - my main machine is a 64b i5-2500 @3.3GHz - not an old or slow machine

Edited by jeffw_00
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Hello,

 

On the plus side, you've enabled digital entitlement on the computers, so when you are ready to upgrade to Microsoft Windows 10 it will still be a free on those systems. For that matter, you'll now be able to do a clean install of Windows 10 on those computers, which I suspect will remediate several of the issues you noted, such as the slow boot problem.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

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Thanks Aryeh - and you're correct. But I hope to be able to do an upgrade to a more stable version when the time comes. We use our PCs for business, and the "clean install" we were forced to do to Windows 7 (first time since Win95) took an entire day :-{.

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Hi Aryeh - Great paper - (admittedly I've read only sections so far - but have put aside to finish later). However, you highlight the problem I have with Window 10. I have little control over my smartphone. Upgrades are forced on me (thank you Verizon), whenever they feel like it. Privacy is problematical, and I learn to do things Android's way. But I'm cool with that, because I don't use my phone for much. I think Microsoft looked at that model (which Apple got everyone acclimated to for phones), and said - "hey - let's use that too. The more we control, the happier most people are". That may indeed be true, while the minority "roots" their phone and has it their way.

 

However, unlike with my phone, with my desktop PC, I'm a fanatical power user, and I'm accustomed to having it set up and run EXACTLY the way I want it to (thank you Perl scripting). So, for example, all updates happen only the morning after the weekly full backup. Windows 10 wants to take some of this control away from me, and there's no easy way to "root" my PC. So I'm staying with Windows 7, where I'm in charge, until they pry it from my cold dead hands (well, until Microsoft stops supporting it, I'm not a total idiot :-}).

 

Anyway- thanks for the paper, and thanks everyone for listening :-}

 

best

/j

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