lewmur Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 (edited) We all have different views.... Personally I see him as a hero that should be praised for his actions.. I understand. You condemn the govt for collecting private data but admire Mr. Snowden for publishing that same data. And, setting your opinion of Mr. Snowden aside, he obviously has an ax to grind against the U.S. govt and no allegation by him should be considered pertinent without corroborating evidence. Would you care to backup his claims with such evidence? Edited February 23, 2016 by lewmur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I applaud Snowden for confirming that the government is indeed collecting private data on its citizens and also confirming that companies are giving the data up to the government. So yes, in my eyes, he did a great thing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewmur Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 I applaud Snowden for confirming that the government is indeed collecting private data on its citizens and also confirming that companies are giving the data up to the government. So yes, in my eyes, he did a great thing. I applaud Snowden for confirming that the government is indeed collecting private data on its citizens and also confirming that companies are giving the data up to the government. So yes, in my eyes, he did a great thing. As I said, your opinion of him lends no credence to any of those allegations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crp Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I applaud Snowden for confirming that the government is indeed collecting private data on its citizens and also confirming that companies are giving the data up to the government. So yes, in my eyes, he did a great thing. I applaud Snowden for confirming that the government is indeed collecting private data on its citizens and also confirming that companies are giving the data up to the government. So yes, in my eyes, he did a great thing. As I said, your opinion of him lends no credence to any of those allegations. gotta agree with Lewmur on this point, unless Snowden can prove that he has the knowledge of what is going on in this case, he is just suppositioning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goretsky Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Hello, A slippery slope, indeed: http://www.wsj.com/articles/justice-department-seeks-to-force-apple-to-extract-data-from-about-12-other-iphones-1456202213 Regards, Aryeh Goretsky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Well with his leaks that are still coming out, I am pretty sure that he knows much more about it than we do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewmur Posted February 24, 2016 Author Share Posted February 24, 2016 Hello, A slippery slope, indeed: http://www.wsj.com/a...ones-1456202213 Regards, Aryeh Goretsky Ten whole cases!!! Wow!! How many regular phone taps do you suppose the FBI has going at any given time? I'm sure there are probably hundreds of cases that would justify a Judge demanding Apple cooperate with LEAs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewmur Posted February 24, 2016 Author Share Posted February 24, 2016 Well with his leaks that are still coming out, I am pretty sure that he knows much more about it than we do... He hasn't even been in the U.S. in a couple of years. Just where do you think he's getting info about this case that the press doesn't have? You think the Russians spies are giving it to him while he is in Moscow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) The Clinton administration was pushing for a chip to be added to cell phones so the govt would have a backdoor. It didn't take long for hackers to break in too. I'm sure the Police and FBI would rather not have hackers listening in to their private and work related phone calls, but that is exactly what would happen. The phone is ether secure for everyone or no one. Only the good guys will ask for a warrant. Edited February 24, 2016 by Robert 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Well with his leaks that are still coming out, I am pretty sure that he knows much more about it than we do... He hasn't even been in the U.S. in a couple of years. Just where do you think he's getting info about this case that the press doesn't have? You think the Russians spies are giving it to him while he is in Moscow? I was referring to what he knows about the current FBI technology and to what extent they already have access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewmur Posted February 24, 2016 Author Share Posted February 24, 2016 Well with his leaks that are still coming out, I am pretty sure that he knows much more about it than we do... He hasn't even been in the U.S. in a couple of years. Just where do you think he's getting info about this case that the press doesn't have? You think the Russians spies are giving it to him while he is in Moscow? I was referring to what he knows about the current FBI technology and to what extent they already have access. First of all, he did not work in decrypting for the NSA and anything he did know is "old news" 'cause Apple's latest encryption method didn't exist then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt.Crow Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Just to catch up I got *Citizen 4* from the library.. I have to admire Snowden . One brave dude.. A real American . As opposed to u.s.anians.Which seem to proliferate to the detriment of that wonderful country. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goretsky Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Hello, I would imagine law enforcement (not just the FBI, but DHS as whole, and also state and local law enforcement) handle in the tens of thousands to perhaps even hundreds of thousands of phone taps per year using search warrants all legal under CALEA. Asking a telecommunications company to provide something under law is quite a bit different from compelling a handset manufacturer to backdoor their devices. Regards, Aryeh Goretsky Hello, A slippery slope, indeed: http://www.wsj.com/a...ones-1456202213 Regards, Aryeh Goretsky Ten whole cases!!! Wow!! How many regular phone taps do you suppose the FBI has going at any given time? I'm sure there are probably hundreds of cases that would justify a Judge demanding Apple cooperate with LEAs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Yes, taping a phone is not the same thing as having a backdoor into a phone for data gathering purposes. One is for phone calls and the other is for data that is actually on the device. Huge difference! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Sure is a HUGE difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete! Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 You can be assured that the FBI will be ready next time. If Apple had cooperated, end of story. If they don't the FBI/CIA/NSA & etc will do whatever it takes to crack Apple's security, so this doesn't happen again. In war, there's no such thing as an "ultimate weapon", new technology only buys the time it takes to develop a countermeasure. Apple may have just ensured that their current technology becomes obsolete sooner rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewmur Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) Sure is a HUGE difference! Easy to say. Care to define this difference for us? And it isn't true anyway. The BIG LIE to scare everyone. The FBI is asking for access to ONE phone. That of someone who murdered EIGHTEEN people!!! If they succeed will it lead to more request? Of course it will! ONE AT A TIME when Judges grant that there is sufficient REASON!!! NOT a general so called "backdoor" into every Apple phone. Personally, I'm in favor of boycotting Apple products because they are making a conscience decision to "aid an abet" criminals and terrorist. Edited March 1, 2016 by lewmur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goretsky Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Hello, Two articles of interest: FBI Directory admits Apple encryption case could set legal precedent Federal Judge rules in favor of Apple in key case involving a locked iPhone The latter is about a different case involving narcotics, but the prosecutor used the same law, the 18th Century-era All Writs Act, as its justification. Also of interest is that multiple organizations are filing amicus briefs in the case, including Google, Facebook, Twitter, Microsoft and the EFF. Considering the amount of competition between Google, Microsoft and Apple, the fact that they would come to the aid of the latter is indicative that this is not a problem targeting Apple per se but technology companies in toto. Regards, Aryeh Goretsky 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewmur Posted March 2, 2016 Author Share Posted March 2, 2016 While Apple claims the moral highground by defying FBI request to break a murderer/terrorist's phone encryption, it seems they are not so reluctant to assist the Chinese govt in oppressing its people in order to protect Apple's bottom line. http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2016/03/02/apples-success-in-china-comes-at-cost.html?intcmp=hplnws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goretsky Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Hello, Well, FOX News and the L.A. Times are certainly biased sources of information, but let's take a look at the crux (to me) of the L.A. Times article: Since the iPhone was officially introduced in China seven years ago, Apple has overcome a national security backlash there and has censored apps that wouldn't pass muster with Chinese authorities. It has moved local user data onto servers operated by the state-owned China Telecom and submits to security audits by Chinese authorities. (source: http://www.latimes.c...0226-story.html) So, what Apple has done is: not provide certain unmentioned apps in the Chinese market (I didn't see it mentioned, but I'm guessing Western social media apps, and probably Wikipedia-type apps as well) hosts all Chinese customer data in China, which is subject to audit by the authorities Russia has similar laws, at least as far as data hosting goes, and I believe parts of Europe have similar laws or are in the process of creating them as well. Interest by nations in not having their citizenry's data hosted in the US exploded after it was revealed that the NSA was hoovering up data from US providers as part of its mass surveillance program. I think that is pretty understandable: If I were a nation that wasn't a member of Five Eyes information-sharing agreement, I probably wouldn't want my citizens' personal communications pored over by the US/UK/CA/NZ/AU (and sometimes IL, I guess) intelligence agencies, looking for who knows what (well, probably information about large contracts, geopolitical stuff, possible blackmail material and, of course, any secret government information sent over these services by their versions of Hillary, but I digress...). That's an unfortunate side-effect for US businesses when their communications are tapped: The impetus for those other nations is going to be to get that data physically stored outside the U.S., where it at least requires some level of nation-state espionage or trade-craft to get at. One thing that we've all seen is that technology moves around and permeates everything until it becomes ubiquitous. Top secrets that helped us win WW2¹ lead to the personal computer revolution. Yesterday's nation-state phone forensics tools get used in contests by police to collect the most porn. This is the march of progress, a good step forward, a bad step forward, repeat ad infinitum. As technology marches forward, so must we. Not by creating a totalitarian police state where everyone lives inside a kind of digital panopticon, but by ensuring that the rules of law enshrined by our founding fathers are enforced not just in rule and in the spirit in which they were created so that citizens are in charge of the government, and not the other way around. Regards, Aryeh Goretsky ¹WARNING: The video on that site is about an hour long and it is awesome, if you're interested in learning where modern computing came from. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Very nice explanation!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Hello, Well, FOX News and the L.A. Times are certainly biased sources of information, but let's take a look at the crux (to me) of the L.A. Times article: Since the iPhone was officially introduced in China seven years ago, Apple has overcome a national security backlash there and has censored apps that wouldn't pass muster with Chinese authorities. It has moved local user data onto servers operated by the state-owned China Telecom and submits to security audits by Chinese authorities. (source: http://www.latimes.c...0226-story.html) So, what Apple has done is: not provide certain unmentioned apps in the Chinese market (I didn't see it mentioned, but I'm guessing Western social media apps, and probably Wikipedia-type apps as well) hosts all Chinese customer data in China, which is subject to audit by the authorities Russia has similar laws, at least as far as data hosting goes, and I believe parts of Europe have similar laws or are in the process of creating them as well. Interest by nations in not having their citizenry's data hosted in the US exploded after it was revealed that the NSA was hoovering up data from US providers as part of its mass surveillance program. I think that is pretty understandable: If I were a nation that wasn't a member of Five Eyes information-sharing agreement, I probably wouldn't want my citizens' personal communications pored over by the US/UK/CA/NZ/AU (and sometimes IL, I guess) intelligence agencies, looking for who knows what (well, probably information about large contracts, geopolitical stuff, possible blackmail material and, of course, any secret government information sent over these services by their versions of Hillary, but I digress...). That's an unfortunate side-effect for US businesses when their communications are tapped: The impetus for those other nations is going to be to get that data physically stored outside the U.S., where it at least requires some level of nation-state espionage or trade-craft to get at. One thing that we've all seen is that technology moves around and permeates everything until it becomes ubiquitous. Top secrets that helped us win WW2¹ lead to the personal computer revolution. Yesterday's nation-state phone forensics tools get used in contests by police to collect the most porn. This is the march of progress, a good step forward, a bad step forward, repeat ad infinitum. As technology marches forward, so must we. Not by creating a totalitarian police state where everyone lives inside a kind of digital panopticon, but by ensuring that the rules of law enshrined by our founding fathers are enforced not just in rule and in the spirit in which they were created so that citizens are in charge of the government, and not the other way around. Regards, Aryeh Goretsky ¹WARNING: The video on that site is about an hour long and it is awesome, if you're interested in learning where modern computing came from. Totally agree Aryeh!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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