ibe98765 Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 I was forced to restore my WinXP system last weekend. Something happened that caused TCP and other parts of the system to not work correctly. It seemed to be triggered by the latest beta of NOD AV or else the UPS software I was trying to install for my new Tripplite UPS. I discovered that System Restore DOESN'T work! I had been running the WinXp System Restore on all my logical drives. I started out by choosing a restore point which was prior to installing the UPS software, but not prior to installing the latest NOD AV (which required a reboot at the time that I didn't do). I tried to do some cleanup on the system, messing around with the registry, add/remove programs and services. One of the problems was that I had lost everything in my network connections folder including add a new connection and couldn't get it back. When this didn't work, I then tried an earlier restore point. In doing some more cleanup, I noticed that some of the software I had manually uninstalled in the previous restore iteration WAS NOT restored! Hmmm, that doesn't seem right. I spent some time messing with this version again. I then loaded the same restore point because the system had been working fine at that point. Again, some of the things I had just changed were not restored. I tried an even earlier restore point. Same problem and folders/files were getting more out of synch. It looked like I would have to do a format on C: and reinstall. Then I remembered that I had an image file laying around (taken with Paragon's drive backup) after my last XP rebuild in January. I still had a working system, so I was able to restore the NTFS C: drive. I didn't lose any of my settings since I have them all stored on the logical D: drive and have a bunch of .reg files that I ran to make sure everything was again pointing to my settings on D: instead of in C:\Documents and Settings\... Inside of 1 hour, I was up and running fine again with all my current settings set correctly (sound, cursors, colors, etc.). Then I just ran Windows update to load and install the latest fixes. Of course, software that hooked into the registry or C:\Windows and was installed after the image was taken also had/has to be reinstalled. Then I took another image of the C: and D: drives. Whew...I have 2 physical drives and 8 logical drives. When you use XP's System Restore, you don't have any control over what drives are [supposedly] "rebuilt". Restore seems to do all that have been monitored and I had been monitoring them all. So running the restore tried to rebuild all the drives to the same point in time. After my experiences, I am not at all confident that System Restore works 100%. Maybe it is only designed to work with one C: drive? So I am now monitoring only the C: & D: drives via System Restore, since these drives contain the heart of the OS for me. I don't know whether System Restore will work again if I need it. And all the other important drive sections are backed up regularly using the XP Backup app through the task scheduler. The advantage of the XP Backup app is that it has "shadow copy" technology, so it is able to back up open files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicDragon Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 I'm glad you were able to get everything back and running, but it's a shame that the restore didn't work. They only reason i can think of for restore not working is maybe its not getting enough hard drive space to back up to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prelude76 Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 i just keep all personal files on a non-system partition, and disable all System Restore and Windows File Checking. I noticed a nice performance boost in doing so. and if something major brings down the system that i can't fix by doing a system repair thru the Recovery Console, I just re-load XP over top of itself. Works pretty decent as last resort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzButt Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Ya nearly a year ago I lost something after a hard boot that caused me to need to do a system restore. It did not work at all. I tried all the tools that are there and nothing worked to restore the NTFS partition. I lost 3 months of email and a few other files but since my layout is the way it is that is about all that was lost. I don't know why they included the recovery console when it is seriously undered powered and seems lacking. I'd rather have DOS back so I can fix the issues I need to.Since then I have changed my disk structure a bit and also do regular backups of everything I can.Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teacher Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Did I miss something with System Restore? I thought it was to restore your programs and registry, not to restore your documents and creations. Since the description on restore say it allows you to restore to an ealier point without losing your current work. I only have one hard drive at the current time and have no problems with it. I use it regularly here at school after students have tried to change the settings. For me, it definitely works for a single drive. I burn CDs of my important stuff about once a month. With the cheap prices on blanks, I don't mind doing it this way. Where are the settings that let you monitor specific drives? Do they only show up when you have multiple hard drives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prelude76 Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 i got so sick of losing data that I went with my current setup: WinXP and Win98SE dual boot, both on FAT32 drives. that way, if either of them act up, i can still boot the other and backup all files i need before grabbing my much over-used Windows XP cd. teacher: not sure exactly how System Restore works, all i know is it doesnt seem to be too reliable, and hogs a lot of system resources. i just do backups manually and organize files differently (even on ONE hard drive, always have at least 2 partitions, one for Windows, one for your personal files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teacher Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 Nice avatar Prelude. Restore saves me a lot of headaches keeping computers up and running from afar. I can't tell you how many times it has been the quick and easy way to restore a computer.I am curious though as to whether it is tied into the multiple hard drives. Guess if I have to add another one here I will find out. I don't think I have actually had to restore on this computer since I bought the XP a year or so ago. I do know it is a Godsend when you have others using your computers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThunderRiver Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 A few adviceDon't count on System Restore! It doesn't work on Windows Me, so don't expect it work on Windows XP now I back up my files using Nero CD burning rom every once awhile, and that's pretty much all I need. I haven't really seriuosly lost any data since last year when I was installing Gentoo Linux, which wiped my drive clean.. I am speechless about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibe98765 Posted May 13, 2003 Author Share Posted May 13, 2003 We should do some testing on System Restore with single and multiple physical and logical disk configurations.Thinking aloud: - Make a restore point- Make a system image backup- Use add/remove to uninstall a couple of apps, delete a few files, etc.- Restore from the last restore point- See if the folders and files changed have been restored- If yes, then uninstall another app or two and delete a few more files- Run the same System Restore point again- If it works, then OK, no problems with System Restore- If it doesn't....I will try this when I get some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DotFlunky Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 ibe98765,For the type of make-some-changes-and-see-if-that-fixes-things repairs you've described, I would definitely recommend making an image and then restoring an image. I'm new to XP, but glancing through the filelist.xml I found I need to make a few changes to the files/folders monitored and excluded from monitoring.If you want something to restore complete software installs, or remove them, keep in mind that SR is only restoring files of those included extensions (filelist.xml) not located in an excluded location and those files specifically included in SR. For extensive changes a disk image will restore all. A restore point will only be a "probably" restore at best, depending upon what MS thought was necessary for windows. And of course whether your SR is working properly and saving/restoring appropriately on command.I'm not confident that SR can keep up with changes made if you select a restore point and make changes and select another restore point and make changes and so on. The best thing to do if SR hasn't fixed a problem is to undo the restoration by selecting undo or another restore point before making extensive changes. IMHO, of course! I just can't bring myself to trust SR. I depend on backup images. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merja Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 I have made restore points before installing new stuff into my laptop (1 physical and logical drive) and once I had to use the system restore to clear a mess. Then it worked very well. SYSTEM RESTORE IS NOT A BACKUP TOOL! So don't you expect it to restore your files, it just restores the system and it isn't supposed to do anything else.Before using your restore points be sure to have a backup of your files! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThunderRiver Posted May 13, 2003 Share Posted May 13, 2003 I have made restore points before installing new stuff into my laptop (1 physical and logical drive) and once I had to use the system restore to clear a mess. Then it worked very well. SYSTEM RESTORE IS NOT A BACKUP TOOL! So don't you expect it to restore your files, it just restores the system and it isn't supposed to do anything else.Before using your restore points be sure to have a backup of your files!Not exactly true, it does back up your file data.Last time I tried to perform System Restore, and ended up losing 54 gig of data because it tends to over-write existing files and the funny thing is that when I reboot, the system runs soo slowly.So then I jump into Linux to check what's going on. The 54 gig drive was not just being corrupted, but system restore created 500 partitions in there. I looked at it in shock. Terrible feature from Microosft. I tried to use Microsoft Computer Management to get rid of all these 500+ partitoins, but it failed, so I jumped back in Linux okay.. my savior.. it worked. So yes, it does back up your files, which is a dangerous thing that Microsoft does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibe98765 Posted May 14, 2003 Author Share Posted May 14, 2003 ibe98765,For the type of make-some-changes-and-see-if-that-fixes-things repairs you've described, I would definitely recommend making an image and then restoring an image. I'm new to XP, but glancing through the filelist.xml I found I need to make a few changes to the files/folders monitored and excluded from monitoring.If you want something to restore complete software installs, or remove them, keep in mind that SR is only restoring files of those included extensions (filelist.xml) not located in an excluded location and those files specifically included in SR. For extensive changes a disk image will restore all. A restore point will only be a "probably" restore at best, depending upon what MS thought was necessary for windows. And of course whether your SR is working properly and saving/restoring appropriately on command.I'm not confident that SR can keep up with changes made if you select a restore point and make changes and select another restore point and make changes and so on. The best thing to do if SR hasn't fixed a problem is to undo the restoration by selecting undo or another restore point before making extensive changes. IMHO, of course! I just can't bring myself to trust SR. I depend on backup images.Thanks for the file pointer to filelist.xml. I'm not sure on how to read the thing. Are all the entries under <Exclude> NOT saved? But I did some searches on the MS KB for "System Restore". There are a lot of hits there. Reading through them, it looks like there are a lot of exclusions to what SR really backs up and restores. Prior to reading this material, I assumed that SR worked a certain way based solely on the name. That assumption has proven to be wrong and unfounded. Sadly, I'm confident that many others are in the same boat.I am not confident that I fully understand what SR does and does not do and under what circumstances. Therefore, I am going to turn it off on all drives except for the C: drive. However, I will rely mostly on my regular backups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merja Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Useful info on System Restore here in Langa Letter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThunderRiver Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 500 partitions???that's a record. ;)congratulations!yeah I wish I could take a screenshot..but it would have taken me about 4 hours to load Photoshop back then. One thing though.. Windows doesn't like to many partitions.. It can't handle it at this moment.. not with XP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibe98765 Posted May 30, 2003 Author Share Posted May 30, 2003 Just came across this link which explains everything:http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/...mb_tol_fngj.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Useful info on System Restore here in Langa Letter. Some good advice from Fred. I remember reading that item. Regarding the microsoft info page on System Restore that ibe98765 shared, Just came across this link which explains everything:http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/...mb_tol_fngj.asp This causes me to ask- have I understood the Microsoft writeup right? They say System Restore functions like an "undo" feature for Windows XP Professional configuration changes, allowing you to recover from problems caused by such things as incorrect system settings, faulty drivers, incompatible applications and so on, without risk to personal files, such as documents or e-mail.A friend of mine bought a 'well-loaded' computer but I was shocked to learn he only went for XP home edition. I sure wish he had gotten the pro edition! Do I understand correctly that he does not have access to System Restore in home edition? If so, yikes! What a waste! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jeff Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Cluttermagnet wrote:Do I understand correctly that he does not have access to System Restore in home edition? If so, yikes! What a waste!System Restore is available in Win XP Home. I've used it several times with no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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