Corrine Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Did you get my new email off my website, Corrine? If you need me to, I'll just send it to you via PM. Actually, I have a better idea... I already had the address. Just removed the G-mail addy from my contact list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I just added the new email and removed gmail as well. The big difference I see is the carry over between Google properties. I totally agree with Neil. There isn't much difference between Google and LiveMail/Hotmail policies. And I also agree with Adam about Yahoo. The only difference with Yahoo is that currently they don't have as many properties as Google or Microsoft online. Not sure GMX privacy policies will be much better? Or German state policies? Maybe hushmail? But they are annoying in that you have to move to paid version if you do not log in to their site every couple weeks or you will lose the address. Any other choices out there to check out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrine Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I don't really see the difference between Windows Live Mail's privacy policy and Google's proposed new policy. Comments inline Re: Windows Live Mail In order to access some Microsoft services, you will be asked to sign in with an e-mail address and password, which we refer to as your Windows Live ID. By signing in on one Microsoft site or service, you may be automatically signed into other Microsoft sites and services that use Windows Live ID. For more information, see the Windows Live ID privacy supplement. You have the option with Windows live to "Always ask". That option is not available with any Google services: Sign in to Microsoft To verify your identity for Microsoft, please retype your password. Email address: Password: Forgot your password? Save my email address and password Save my email address Always ask for my email address and password We collect additional information about your interaction with Microsoft sites and services without identifying you as an individual. For example, we receive certain standard information that your browser sends to every website you visit, such as your IP address, browser type and language, access times and referring Web site addresses. We also use Web site analytics tools on our sites to retrieve information from your browser, including the site you came from, the search engine(s) and the keywords you used to find our site, the pages you view within our site, your browser add-ons, and your browser's width and height. Emphasis added With Google, information does identify you as an individual. We could re-hash the "real-name" bit again, but I don't see the purpose. We use technologies, such as cookies and web beacons (described below), to collect information about the pages you view, the links you click and other actions you take on our sites and services. Easy enough to clear cookies and history. We also deliver advertisements (see the Display of Advertising section below) and provide Web site analytics tools on non-Microsoft sites and services, and we collect information about page views on these third party sites as well. There is an option to opt-out of personalized and Microsoft advertisements as well as to select ads based on interests, Personalized Advertising from Microsoft. Of course, with ad-blocking software, this is moot. When you receive newsletters or promotional e-mail from Microsoft, we may use web beacons (described below), customized links or similar technologies to determine whether the e-mail has been opened and which links you click in order to provide you more focused e-mail communications or other information. In order to offer you a more consistent and personalized experience in your interactions with Microsoft, information collected through one Microsoft service may be combined with information obtained through other Microsoft services. We may also supplement the information we collect with information obtained from other companies. For example, we may use services from other companies that enable us to derive a general geographic area based on your IP address in order to customize certain services to your geographic area. Newsletters and promotional e-mails from Microsoft are all opt-in. For example, I subscribe to multiple newsletters, "Microsoft at home & at work", "Microsoft Security Newsletter" and more. However, in the Profile Center, is the option, "I would like to hear from Microsoft Partners, or Microsoft on their behalf, about their products, services, and events. Share or use my details with Microsoft Partners." From the same area, I can manage subscription to all of the available newsletters. As to the "properties", IMO, there is a difference between the properties that Google is lumping together from the properties Microsoft has available. Checking Hotmail with IE, I don't see targeted advertisements. However, it was a bit of a shock when I looked at an message in G-Mail and there was an advertisement specifically based on the words in the e-mail. That convinced me years ago that I would never use G-mail for anything important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 OK, so there are some very distinct differences between the ALL INFO BETWEEN SERVICES ON GOOGLE'S IDENTITY SERVICE, and SOME VERY DISTINCT DIFFERENCES IN MICROSOFT'S SERVICES WHICH DO NOT IDENTIFY YOU PERSONALLY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 That makes Microsoft much more user friendly and choice friendly than Google these days, eh? Could make some differences in choices of Windows Phones and Android Phones too if this type of serious discrepancy continues in Google not being more choice oriented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlim Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 MS knows my IP and scans my computer, at least once a month to see what I have installed so update can show me what I need. Do you really think MS doesn't know who I am (IP known and all user info available when my computer is scanned)? They know all the serial numbers of MS products I've installed and who those products are registered to. They have my update history going back as far as the first time update was used on a particular computer. There is no privacy. The only way around that is to never get on the internet and it is too late for me to back pedal now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share Posted January 28, 2012 Before this goes off onto some kind of tear, let me just say a few things here... Firstly, personal choices in life are ALL subjective and biased to a great degree by one's personal feelings. That being said, I have to compare this debate to one regarding religion, or even politics. Everyone has their favorite horse in the race, folks. Everyone has had different experiences. While we do discuss and debate a bit on these tech topics around here, we shouldn't be trying to convert anyone to our way of thinking. Sure, we cheer for our favorite, but that shouldn't preclude us from understanding that others have their favorites, too. I like Linux. I like Firefox browser. I like Yahoo. There are folks here who like Microsoft Windows, Opera, and Google. So what? You've all heard me say this before... "What works best for you is what's best for you." Currently, for me anyway, Google no longer is behaving in a way, corporately speaking, that I can tolerate. Sure, Yahoo and MSN, etc. all are out to make a buck. That's capitalism, comrade. What just rubs me the wrong way about Google's recent behavioral changes is their apparent disdain for their loyal users. The more their greedy stripe begins to surface, the more they display remarkable apathy toward the very people who are making them so rich. That's just my impression, you understand. Others here may not see it that way. Bottom line... march to the drumbeat most pleasing to your ears. That is the true meaning of freedom. Be thankful everyday that you have those freedoms. Do everything in your power to make sure you never lose your freedoms. Later... ~Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 That is what really bothers me most about Google too, Eric. I feel betrayed by them. They have changed entirely from what they started out to be. They no longer strive to be privacy centric, user centric, but now want to be even more rich than every before at the cost of we users. I just don't care for that and it is really making me totally reconsider Google in any capacity. Which is really sad. I have always stood by Google, even when I didn't understand what appeared to be a less than equitable 'be not evil' stance. I am not sure I can any longer. 2011 has left a very bad taste in my mouth on many tech fronts, and Google worst of all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urmas Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 What just rubs me the wrong way about Google's recent behavioral changes is their apparent disdain for their loyal users. Yes. There is no way around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrine Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 MS knows my IP and scans my computer, at least once a month to see what I have installed so update can show me what I need. Do you really think MS doesn't know who I am (IP known and all user info available when my computer is scanned)? They know all the serial numbers of MS products I've installed and who those products are registered to. They have my update history going back as far as the first time update was used on a particular computer. There is no privacy. The only way around that is to never get on the internet and it is too late for me to back pedal now. Actually, it isn't IP Address, which can change but rather a "Globally Unique Identifier" (GUID), What is the Update Catalog? The Update Catalog is a Microsoft service that provides a listing of Microsoft software updates, drivers, and hotfixes that information technology administrators can distribute over a corporate network. What information is collected? The Update Catalog collects information about your computer that allows us to operate and improve the Update Catalog, such as: The software you choose to download The successes, failures, and errors you experience when accessing the Update Catalog and downloading software Your search queries in the Update Catalog A Globally Unique Identifier (GUID) (see below for details) Update Catalog client version We may collect information about your visit, including the pages you view, the links you click, and other actions taken in connection with the Update Catalog website. We also collect certain standard information that your browser sends to every website you visit, such as your IP address, operating system version, browser version, and your regional and language settings. How is the information used? The information sent to Microsoft is used to operate the Update Catalog and to generate aggregate statistics about how the Update Catalog is used and types of computer systems that need support. These statistics help improve Microsoft software and the Update Catalog. To generate accurate statistics, the Update Catalog uses a globally unique identifier (GUID) that is stored on your computer to uniquely identify it. The GUID does not contain any information that can be used to identify you, or the organization using the Update Catalog. The GUID is used to track whether the download of specific updates succeeded or failed and how widespread the feedback is so we can prioritize it. For example, the GUID allows Microsoft to distinguish between one customer experiencing a problem one hundred times and one hundred customers experiencing the same problem once. Before this goes off onto some kind of tear, let me just say a few things here... Firstly, personal choices in life are ALL subjective and biased to a great degree by one's personal feelings. That being said, I have to compare this debate to one regarding religion, or even politics. Everyone has their favorite horse in the race, folks. Everyone has had different experiences. While we do discuss and debate a bit on these tech topics around here, we shouldn't be trying to convert anyone to our way of thinking. Sure, we cheer for our favorite, but that shouldn't preclude us from understanding that others have their favorites, too. It is a good discussion, which I doubt will change anyone's opinion; rather, an opportunity for presenting different interpretations and points of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Agreed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross549 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Considering the options of e-mail privacy....... Probably the ONLY way you are going to have a totally (at least as much as the internet can be private) private account is to have your own domain with your own personal e-mail service that YOU pay for. This comes back to the money. If you follow it, you know what is going to happen. In the case of Google, etc.... you are not the customer. The advertisers are. The best value for the advertisers is going to drive anything tese companies are going to do. It really does not really matter what you think, as long as you keep coming back. In the case of your own domain and email service, YOU are the customer, and therefore the company will do what they need in order to keep you there. Just my rambling thoughts..... Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Yes, very true. The biggest problem with your own domain is when (and I do mean when, not if) your domain gets spammed and you can not email your clients or even your family for periods of time, you will be right back to Google, Microsoft or Yahoo as they have such a big footprint, they can't unilaterally ban them like they can individual domains. Sigh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrine Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 This has certainly been a great discussion for Data Privacy Day! (If interested, Data Privacy Day 2012) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross549 Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Yes, very true. The biggest problem with your own domain is when (and I do mean when, not if) your domain gets spammed and you can not email your clients or even your family for periods of time, you will be right back to Google, Microsoft or Yahoo as they have such a big footprint, they can't unilaterally ban them like they can individual domains. Sigh... There is that risk. Sad...... Good thing though... spam proliferation is dropping, last I heard. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil P Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Google today posted a response on its Public Policy blog: http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.com/201...es-not-our.html Last week we heard from members of Congress about Google’s plans to update our privacy policies by consolidating them into a single document on March 1. Protecting people’s privacy is something we think about all day across the company, and we welcome discussions about our approach. We hope this letter, in which we respond to the members’ questions, clears up the confusion about these changes. We’re updating our privacy policies for two reasons: First, we’re trying to make them simpler and more understandable, which is something that lawmakers and regulators have asked technology companies to do. By folding more than 60 product-specific privacy policies into our main Google one, we’re explaining our privacy commitments to users of those products in 85% fewer words. Second, we want to make our users’ experience seamless and easy by allowing more sharing of information among products when users are signed into their Google Accounts. In other words, we want to make more of your information available to you when you’re signed into Google services. Some important things aren’t changing: We’re still keeping your private information private -- we’re not changing the visibility of any information you have stored with Google. We’re still allowing you to do searches, watch videos on YouTube, get driving directions on Google Maps, and perform other tasks without signing into a Google Account. We’re still offering you choice and control through privacy tools like Google Dashboard and Ads Preferences Manager that help you understand and manage your data. We still won’t sell your personal information to advertisers. We’re still offering data liberation if you’d prefer to close your Google Account and take your data elsewhere. While our privacy policies will change on March 1, our commitment to our privacy principles is as strong as ever. They sent a letter to members of congress. In the letter, they mention their privacy tools: http://www.google.com/privacy/tools That page led me to this one, Turn off personal results: http://support.google.com/websearch/bin/an...;answer=2410479 If you turn off personal results and stay signed in to your Google Account, you won't see results personalized based on your Google+ circles (or suggested connections), Google products, or your search history. There's also this page, which tells you how to turn off search history personalization: http://support.google.com/websearch/bin/an...mp;answer=54048 When signed out, your results will still be personalized based on a cookie. That link tells you how to stop that. There's an Ad preference manager, where you can disable personalized ads on Search & Gmail, and on the web (there are two settings) The letter also has answers to questions congress asked them. These products can be used without logging into a google account: Of those listed, the following products and services may be used without signing in: Web Search, Google Chrome, iGoogle, Toolbar, Mobile, Maps for Mobile, Search for Mobile, YouTube, Books, Images, News, Videos, Picasa, Picnik, Google, Offers, Maps, Earth, Panoramio, SketchUp, Sites, Translate, Google+, Blogger, Groups, Knol, Orkut, Blog Search, Custom Search, Patent Search, Product Search, Finance, Scholar, Trends, Code. Also, though not included on that page, Chrome OS and Android may be used without signing into a Google account. For many of our products and services, additional functionality is enabled when the user signs in to his or her Google account. Furthermore, when users do log in, we give them ways to control how the information in their account is used. For example, they can use the Google Dashboard to see and control what information we associate with their account. They can also turn off search personalization, turn off or edit their search history, turn their Gmail chats to ―off the record,‖ and use the Ads Preferences Manager to control how ads are tailored to them. Google Dashboard is here: https://www.google.com/dashboard/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Good info, Neil. Thanks for posting it here. I believe I'll still distance myself from Google. There's just something there that has been itching away at me just under my collar for some time. I can't even put a finger on it at the moment. It started to turn sour for me with the pseudonym thing at G+. I haven't recovered my previous Google comfort level since then. The only thing I can compare this to really is like the time I got food poisoning from a ham sandwich at Subway (around 1976 or so). I didn't eat at Subway again for about thirty years; and even then I made sure it was a cooked sandwich (meatball sub). Once Google poisoned me with G+, it just left a really sour taste in my mouth. Again, this is just me. For you Google fans out there, carry on. Later... ~Eric, a recovering Google fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrine Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Of those listed, the following products and services may be used without signing in: Used or viewed/read? Certainly I can read Google+ and Blog posts without being signed in but to use the services, certainly requires signing in. That said, I thought this article laid out the available options very nicely: How to navigate Google’s privacy options | Naked Security Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil P Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Used or viewed/read? Certainly I can read Google+ and Blog posts without being signed in but to use the services, certainly requires signing in. That said, I thought this article laid out the available options very nicely: How to navigate Google’s privacy options | Naked Security I would say they mean "viewed". You can "view" YouTube without signing in, you can't comment/upload without logging in. It's the same for a lot of the products listed. You can view Picasa pictures but you can't interact with them, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 From the Sophos Naked Security article: Another technique I have used to limit Google's ability to tie together my search results with my use of Gmail, Google+ and YouTube is to open an Incognito window (Chrome), Private Browsing (Firefox) or InPrivate Browsing (IE) when using Google services that require me to sign in. Great idea when surfing. Also I consider the cookies left in my browsers by Google products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil P Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 You can also create two google accounts and they won't cross-pollinate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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