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Temmu

IT's unspoken age discrimination - computerworld article

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in the november 21, 2011 issue of computerworld, the cover inflammatorily states "...older workers... not pulling their weight..."(1)

admins, get your ban trigger ready!

 

1. i am 50 +

2. i pull my weight, more so than the younger employees

3. i continue to train and lead innovation

4. i am appalled at that inflammatory assertion

 

on page 20, the left column, vivek wadhwa is quoted

1. skills currency not up to par with younger....

--- lol! how can that be? every day is a learning experience.

2. level of compensation ($$) higher than younger...

--- lol again! most college kids get hired at higher salaries than existing employees.

3. behavior and attitutude - rigid and narrow minded comes with age

--- good god! is wadhwa insane? at least adults understand manners and politeness.

--- narrow minded?? what! how can an inexperienced person see the big picture, the broad implications?

4. energy level ... lower than a 25 yr old.

--- more insanity. no one under 55 has ever won a 100 mile foot race. just because someone can

--- burn the midnight oil for a week or 2 doesn't mean they have the stamina to go for months or years

--- to see projects complete and business grown. it's a matter of maturity, not age or youth.

 

more to come...

 

 

 

 

notes:

1. "Are older workers facing tought times in high tech? Or are they simply not pulling their weight in an industry that never stops innovating?"

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I'll give them that we (50+ year olds) might move a bit slower sometimes. We also tend to take a little bit more time to think through the consequences of our actions. And not just the consequences to ourselves either. Temmu, thanks for pointing out this pile of fresh manure, now I can safely step around/over it without becoming soiled by it.

 

ComputerWorld = What a bad joke!

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A bad joke? I guess that is a matter of opinion...I don't happen to agree with that opinion.

 

And not just because Scot is Editor in Chief either...

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Never mind. Found it.

IT's age problem

 

Code for "younger workers are way cheaper to provide health insurance for".

And they generally work for less per hour or less salary too...ie, the entire employment package is less.

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I'm 50 years old and cannot even find a job. My online apps that are analyzed by third party computer programs just go into the trash. The companies I'm applying for never even see my apps. Older workers are more difficult to manipulate. They won't take as much feces as younger workers will. Older workers cost more for health coverage, etc. It's all about the $$$. Companies do what's best for their bottom line. And the fact the age discrimination is illegal does not stop it from happening regularly because it's nearly impossible to catch a company doing it.

 

As far as Scot being the Editor-In-Chief of the magazine where this article appeared; I don't think that should limit anyone's right to speak their mind here. There's no rule in the TOS here that states that we have to say only nice things about ComputerWorld. Just my opinion...

 

FULL DISCLOSURE: I did not read the article in question.

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Never mind. Found it.

IT's age problem

 

Code for "younger workers are way cheaper to provide health insurance for".

I've pretty much given up on ever having health insurance again. But because I own my own home, I can't go to the hospital - if I do, there'll be nothing left for the kids. So I figure I'll do my best to live until I catch something, and then simply die of it. If you find me twitching on the floor, do NOT call an ambulance! I'll either get up or I won't.

 

I've had a good run, and we all die sooner or later anyhow. I'd rather leave something for the kids.

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I agree. Opinions are just that, our own opinions. Good, bad or indifferent. Scot would not want us to stifle that. You can count on that.

 

Health insurance? What's that? ;)

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I don't understand what you mean about not going to a hospital because you own a home. You can go to a hospital for emergency services in the State of Florida and if you cannot pay, as was the case with me last year, you do not have to pay. NO ONE can touch your home. Your home is NOT counted against you as an asset when applying for Hillsborough County Medical Assistance, Federal Food Assistance, or Medicaid. What is counted against you are your liquid assets, non-homesteaded properties, and your vehicles/boats/RVs, etc.

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As far as Scot being the Editor-In-Chief of the magazine where this article appeared; I don't think that should limit anyone's right to speak their mind here. There's no rule in the TOS here that states that we have to say only nice things about ComputerWorld. Just my opinion...

Well I was just referring to the general statement made against CW. I would imagine that Scot would want feedback good or bad about any of the articles in the publication.

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Well I was just referring to the general statement made against CW. I would imagine that Scot would want feedback good or bad about any of the articles in the publication.

 

I completely understand where you were coming from, Josh. Your heart is always in the right place. And I agree to a point... we owe Scot our friendship, gratitude, and a modicum of respect. However, as Fran said above, being a journalist, I'm pretty sure Scot would be the first to tell us to vent all we want. We have that right. Let's be respectful about it, though.

 

:)

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I don't understand what you mean about not going to a hospital because you own a home. You can go to a hospital for emergency services in the State of Florida and if you cannot pay, as was the case with me last year, you do not have to pay. NO ONE can touch your home. Your home is NOT counted against you as an asset when applying for Hillsborough County Medical Assistance, Federal Food Assistance, or Medicaid. What is counted against you are your liquid assets, non-homesteaded properties, and your vehicles/boats/RVs, etc.

I've heard you say this before, and I'm glad it's working out for you Eric. But SuzyQ had a minor accident last spring. She walked away, but not before some Good Samaritan took her to Tampa General Hospital. She spent four hours there and got seven stitches in her scalp. And then she got a bill for $43,000. They weren't kidding either, though where an unemployed single mom is going to round up that kind of money is a mystery. They keep calling though.

 

If that were me, and I ended up dying, they'd have that bill out of my estate. I am NOT going that way if I can help it.

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SuzyQ had a legitimate harassment case. I bet she would have had no trouble finding a lawyer to handle that guaranteed winner on contingency. It may not be too late to ask, by the way.

 

By the way, I really believe you should apply for all that I mentioned above. You would qualify for partial, if not full, assistance. You paid for it all these years, man. You should take advantage of what's available when you need it. That's what it's there for. There's no need for you to roll over and die. Take care of this, my friend. I worry about you.

 

OK, then... back 2 topic. ;)

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no disrespect intended toward the magazine.

 

it is simply appalling that one who has contributed so much to society or a company is viewed as "not pulling his weight"

when the youth haven't even started to pull theirs. the older folks pulled the younger's weight for 2 decades before

the younger could even begin to pull theirs.

 

and the blurb on the cover is inflammatory. (1)

 

note

1. little billy discovered that "inflammable" meant "flammable" before the fire truck arrived. :lol:

Edited by Temmu

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I'll give them that we (50+ year olds) might move a bit slower sometimes. ...

 

google 100 mile foot race and see who wins. it is those elderly, decrepit, useless folks. not the young.

 

a younger friend of mine runs in events and places near the top, he too is amazed how many "old folks" beat him or are likewise near the top.

 

in war, snipers "move a bit slower" but their effectiveness cannot be argued.

a chess player's "slowness" takes the game in short order.

 

and "haste is waste"

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And they generally work for less per hour or less salary too...

 

 

heartily disagree.

another friend has a "big" position in an oil company, and has found many huge deposits(1)

his assistant (trainee) was hired at far more than he will ever earn.

(friend's house is bigger than yours. believe it.)

 

 

note

1. digression - which is why i'm a bit skeptical about us running out of oil in my lifetime or yours.

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heartily disagree.

another friend has a "big" position in an oil company, and has found many huge deposits(1)

his assistant (trainee) was hired at far more than he will ever earn.

(friend's house is bigger than yours. believe it.)

 

 

note

1. digression - which is why i'm a bit skeptical about us running out of oil in my lifetime or yours.

Maybe that's true in the oil industry, but in many IT departments in other corporations (where they often don't get the need in the first place), that's often not the case.

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Rather than making sweeping generalizations, some key points to consider.

 

#1. This is an employers market. This is not like the heydays or the boom economy we had in the mid to late 90s with abundant jobs. This means companies can be extremely selective in who they hire using virtually any criteria they choose to set.

 

#2. Management styles differ from company to company. Older workers are sometimes valued over younger workers depending various factors involved. In some companies they prefer "older" workers because they are more disciplined, more punctual, and can follow corporate rules better than their younger cohorts.

 

#3. Sweeping generalizations (in general) I find don't really do any good. It's like making a comment about a particular nationality or ethic group.

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the "younger is cheaper" falicy (or broad sweeping conventional wisdom):

 

1. avondale industries, a major ship yard, got rid of all their old-people workers, that is, their first-class welders, fitters, electricians etc. to save money. (2nd class workers are much cheaper, less likely to get sick, and younger, more energetic.)

the project (ship) dramatically went over budget. the next ship (3 years) likewise was dramatically over-budget.

 

2. look at the c-5 galaxy. it was built by old-people workers. why? because the contractors (20+ of them across the country) wanted to make money! you do not profit from inexperience.

(watch original footage: http://www.youtube.com/user/webdev17#p/u/178/p4TeM0X5bmQ and http://www.youtube.com/user/webdev17#p/u/178/p4TeM0X5bmQ )

 

 

 

[yes, of course there are great many young people that have succeeded become billionaires.]

 

 

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2. look at the c-5 galaxy. it was built by old-people workers. why? because the contractors (20+ of them across the country) wanted to make money! you do not profit from inexperience.

(watch original footage: http://www.youtube.com/user/webdev17#p/u/178/p4TeM0X5bmQ and http://www.youtube.com/user/webdev17#p/u/178/p4TeM0X5bmQ )

I enjoyed those videos, very cool :thumbsup:

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ot: yeah, love brief documentaries about tech, even if it's not computer related. :)

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Those 'older workers' in the videos were also from the WW2 generation. If it could be done, they would make it happen. You could count on that.

They aren't called the "greatest generation" for no reason. It may only be the greatest in recent history, but it still applies.

 

Hopefully, the next few generations won't be called upon to prove their greatness quite as dramatically.

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Those 'older workers' in the videos were also from the WW2 generation. If it could be done, they would make it happen. You could count on that.

They aren't called the "greatest generation" for no reason. It may only be the greatest in recent history, but it still applies.

 

Hopefully, the next few generations won't be called upon to prove their greatness quite as dramatically.

 

:thumbup:

 

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1. avondale industries, a major ship yard, got rid of all their old-people workers, that is, their first-class welders, fitters, electricians etc. to save money. (2nd class workers are much cheaper, less likely to get sick, and younger, more energetic.)

the project (ship) dramatically went over budget. the next ship (3 years) likewise was dramatically over-budget.

 

2. look at the c-5 galaxy. it was built by old-people workers. why? because the contractors (20+ of them across the country) wanted to make money! you do not profit from inexperience.

(watch original footage: http://www.youtube.com/user/webdev17#p/u/178/p4TeM0X5bmQ and http://www.youtube.com/user/webdev17#p/u/178/p4TeM0X5bmQ )

Temmu, thanks for the trip down memory lane. I was on active duty in the USAF when the C-5 began operating. That's one monstrous aircraft, so big that you're amazed that it can actually fly.

 

As a sad sidenote to your mention of Avondale Industries, the ship yard will be closed next year unless a new operator can be found to purchase the company. Nearly 5,000 workers will be unemployed if it closes. :angry2:

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yes, avondale. very sad. i was there for half a decade... better opportunities opened for me. not glad i left, but looking at what's going on now, i am relieved not to be there.

 

the c5 - got a guided tour while waiting at a naval air station for another flight. the tour guide was an e-9! truly an amazing aircraft.

 

and the greatest generation, of course. that kind of determination = success in any area of life, including profitability, which is why i am so amazed at the attitude portrayed in the cited article. that kind of conventional wisdom is sickening.

 

the old people built the c5, the sr-71, nuclear anything, the space program, etc. - where is that innovation today? i guess it's stiffled because old people are smothered under the false belief of their lack of worth.

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