mac Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 From PCWorld Will Microsoft's Free Antivirus App be Worth the Price?Frank OhlhorstJun 11, 2009 10:37 amMicrosoft is getting ready to offer Windows users a free antivirus product (code name Morro), something it should have built into one of its operating systems a long time ago. But, of course, Microsoft never makes things simple. So the big question is will Morro be worth the price?Microsoft's goal is to offer the antivirus product as a hosted service, which is very different from what users have come to expect, especially when the word "free" is attached to the term "antivirus." After all, Grisoft and Avast have offered free versions of their antivirus products to PC users, and those free products are of the traditional download and install nature.Microsoft says Morro will be released as a public beta "soon." There is no word on the final release. The big question here becomes will users entrust their security to Microsoft and what may be a half-baked beta product? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewmur Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 From PCWorld MS is still fighting with the EU about bundling IE and now they're going to bundle an AV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tushman Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 MS is still fighting with the EU about bundling IE and now they're going to bundle an AV?"Bundled" or not, the real concern here should be how intrusive the product will be or how tied-in it will be with the OS. It should be easy to remove or uninstall or users will have a fit. Considering the number of 3rd party security packages available to end users, Microsoft would be completely nuts to have the product so closely tied with the OS making it hard to uninstall - I think they've learned their lesson with Internet Explorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewmur Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 (edited) - I think they've learned their lesson with Internet Explorer. In what way have they "learned their lesson with Internet Explorer?" They are still fighting with the EU over IE. Their latest proposal is to offer Win7 with no browser at all. Just how is that going to work? Customer: "Hello, tech support? I don't have a browser so how can I download one?" Tech support: "Well, first you click on Administrator and then Software Package Manager and then..." Edited June 12, 2009 by lewmur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 In what way have they "learned their lesson with Internet Explorer?" They are still fighting with the EU over IE. Their latest proposal is to offer Win7 with no browser at all. Just how is that going to work? Customer: "Hello, tech support? I don't have a browser so I can I download one?" Tech support: "Well, first you click on Administrator and then Software Package Manager and then..." Well, maybe the EU will force MS to include a CD with copies of FF, Chrome, Safari, Opera et al, with every copy of WIN7 that's for sale at the retailers in the EU?I'm sure that'll work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlim Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 When dialup was king, the window OS included dialup software from all the major players. It was installed, just semi-ready if you wanted to click and pay the money for a particular ISP.Windows and Microsoft Update has to be able to connect to the internet. Maybe the first time you launch it, it will ask 'What browser do you want to install?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tushman Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) In what way have they "learned their lesson with Internet Explorer?" They are still fighting with the EU over IE. Their latest proposal is to offer Win7 with no browser at all. Just how is that going to work?Quote the source and credibility. Where did you hear such a thing? MS has included one with every new OS released since 1995. It is hard to believe that MS would ship a new desktop OS without some sort of internet browser. Edited June 13, 2009 by Tushman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewmur Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Quote the source and credibility. Where did you hear such a thing? MS has included one with every new OS released since 1995. It is hard to believe that MS would ship a new desktop OS without some sort of internet browser.Try this article from Computer World. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goretsky Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Hello,Given Microsoft's past methods, it will probably be offered as a separate download, just like other free programs they provide.Regards,Aryeh Goretsky MS is still fighting with the EU about bundling IE and now they're going to bundle an AV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goretsky Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Hello,I believe Microsoft did offer to include a CD with copies of Real Player or (an)other multimedia player(s) when the EU investigated their "monopoly" for media players, but the EU rejected this offer. I think this is rather disappointing, because it made the EU's complaint about Microsoft abuse seem to be less about consumer choice and doing what was best for consumers (I can't think of any software vendor that would not just love to have millions of copies of their product shipped with Microsoft picking up the distribution costs) and more like a vindictive attack against the company.Regards,Aryeh Goretsky Well, maybe the EU will force MS to include a CD with copies of FF, Chrome, Safari, Opera et al, with every copy of WIN7 that's for sale at the retailers in the EU?I'm sure that'll work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewmur Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) Hello,Given Microsoft's past methods, it will probably be offered as a separate download, just like other free programs they provide.Regards,Aryeh GoretskyCome again? Just how are you supposed to get this "separate download" if you don't have a browser to perform the download? The whole point is that MS is "offering" something they know ****** well no one will want and claiming it's a solution. Even if they offer it as a separate CD, no one will want it and MS knows that. Just like they didn't want a separate CD with a media player.Customer; "I'm buying this new PC. Does it have everything I need?"Salesperson: "No. You'll have to use this other CD to install a browser. You can do that, can't you? Of course we have this one at the same price that does have one pre-installed. Which one do you want?"Another question. How is the user going to get updates if they don't have IE? MS has said nothing about opening up Microsoft Updates to browsers other than IE.MS is just playing its normal games to try to meet the "letter of the law" while playing fast and loose with the spirit.What the EU wants is simple. You buy a new PC and the first time you run it, it gives you the CHOICE of which browser you want to use. Edited June 13, 2009 by lewmur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_P Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 What the EU wants is simple. You buy a new PC and the first time you run it, it gives you the CHOICE of which browser you want to use.Then they need to talk to the pc manufacturers. THEY are the ones that package sw on their pcs. They could include FireFox, SeaMonkey, and Google's and Opera would still be left out in the cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewmur Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Then they need to talk to the pc manufacturers. THEY are the ones that package sw on their pcs. They could include FireFox, SeaMonkey, and Google's and Opera would still be left out in the cold. Sure. MS has no influence on what the manufacturers do. Asus's "apology" is surefire proof of that. But don't tell it to me. Tell the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throktar Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I wish MS would pull every MS product off the EU shelves. What a show that would be as the EU colasped into a giant heap of ....... (you get the picture). Then MS comes back and offers all it's products for three times the original cost. The funny thing is they would gladly pay it-- The EU needs to be taught a lesson. Opera needs to shut up and make a superior web browser and end all the whinning. I mean really, .7% market share-- who are they kidding?Was it not the EU who demanded that MS pull WMP out of windows with the "N" version in the name of consumer choice? And how well did that choice work? Did I not hear they sold like 7 copies of the "N" version. What a smashing victory for the EU.The sole reason the EU goes after MS-- is MS has very deep pockets. Just as the EU is breathing down Intel's neck-- It's all about the money! The smoke and mirrors is all about using consumer choice to hide their real agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throktar Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Sure. MS has no influence on what the manufacturers do. Asus's "apology" is surefire proof of that. But don't tell it to me. Tell the EU.Big deal! Asus changes it's mind (bad business decision) and MSI steps up to the plate and says we can. Companies make stupid choices all the time. The really stupid ones end up going out of business. Asus is not the only game on the globe. Get over it! Asus created the Netbook market and now companies like MSI and Acer are eating their lunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyj12 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 (edited) I wish MS would pull every MS product off the EU shelves. What a show that would be as the EU colasped into a giant heap of ....... (you get the picture). Then MS comes back and offers all it's products for three times the original cost. The funny thing is they would gladly pay it-- The EU needs to be taught a lesson. Opera needs to shut up and make a superior web browser and end all the whinning. I mean really, .7% market share-- who are they kidding?Was it not the EU who demanded that MS pull WMP out of windows with the "N" version in the name of consumer choice? And how well did that choice work? Did I not hear they sold like 7 copies of the "N" version. What a smashing victory for the EU.The sole reason the EU goes after MS-- is MS has very deep pockets. Just as the EU is breathing down Intel's neck-- It's all about the money! The smoke and mirrors is all about using consumer choice to hide their real agenda. Could not agree more and the EU is just blackmailing large cooperations for money and growing their influence. How much of the Intel settlement do you think AMD will ever see? If they were truly out to protect the consumer they would give 90% of it to them, but I am willing to bet they won't see a dime. Sad fact that the EU and its supporters do not get is that they will pass the costs, and fines imposed on them down to the consumer. So in fact what they are doing is hurting the consumer. Edited June 17, 2009 by tommyj12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urmas Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 If they were truly out to protect the consumer they would give 90% of it to them...Is that the way the FTC operates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewmur Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 I wish MS would pull every MS product off the EU shelves. What a show that would be as the EU colasped into a giant heap of ....... (you get the picture).I'd love to see this too. If MS pulled that kind of stunt the EU would immediately revoke all of their patents and copyrights and it would take other companies about a week to replace Windows with a WORKING OS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyj12 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) Is that the way the FTC operates? The FTC didn't cause MS to ship 7 without IE bundled in the US. It is my firm belief that any costs a large company has because of this stuff only gets added to the retail costs. We as consumers pay it not them, so its all pointless no matter what government regulation body it is. Edited June 18, 2009 by tommyj12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewmur Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 The FTC didn't cause MS to ship 7 without IE bundled in the US. It is my firm belief that any costs a large company has because of this stuff only gets added to the retail costs. We as consumers pay it not them, so its all pointless no matter what government regulation body it is.Do you really believe MS is fighting the fine in order to save the consumer money? Dream on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyj12 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Do you really believe MS is fighting the fine in order to save the consumer money? Dream on. Never said I did, but if you think they will be the ones paying it and not the consumer then I don't know what else to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goretsky Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Hello,I was referring to Microsoft Security Essentials (a/k/a "Morro") and not Internet Explorer. Apologies for any confusion.To answer your question, though, it should be possible to create a program which allows the user to select a web browser and either install or download and then install it.I believe I said in another message that Microsoft offered to distribute additonal media players on a CD. Since the EU did not agree with this offer, it is difficult to say whether or not people would have used it.My suspicion is that rather than offer to sell customers a computer with a web browser pre-isntalled, big box retailers will use the opportunity to offer people a "setup service" to install it. For a fee, of course. Likewise, I am sure that computer manufacturers would be happy to charge web browser developers to include their software. Perhaps there would even be trial versions of web browsers which computer owners could purchase, or use for free in exchange for having a small portion of the browsing window permanently display targeted advertisements based on users' web browsing habits (anonymously collected, of course).The Automatic Update service provides critical security updates to the operating system in the background, so it seems to be it would be possible to extend this to provide updates for lower-risk and non-security issues, as well.Regards,Aryeh Goretsky Come again? Just how are you supposed to get this "separate download" if you don't have a browser to perform the download? The whole point is that MS is "offering" something they know ****** well no one will want and claiming it's a solution. Even if they offer it as a separate CD, no one will want it and MS knows that. Just like they didn't want a separate CD with a media player.Customer; "I'm buying this new PC. Does it have everything I need?"Salesperson: "No. You'll have to use this other CD to install a browser. You can do that, can't you? Of course we have this one at the same price that does have one pre-installed. Which one do you want?"Another question. How is the user going to get updates if they don't have IE? MS has said nothing about opening up Microsoft Updates to browsers other than IE.MS is just playing its normal games to try to meet the "letter of the law" while playing fast and loose with the spirit.What the EU wants is simple. You buy a new PC and the first time you run it, it gives you the CHOICE of which browser you want to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 Come again? Just how are you supposed to get this "separate download" if you don't have a browser to perform the download? The whole point is that MS is "offering" something they know ****** well no one will want and claiming it's a solution. Even if they offer it as a separate CD, no one will want it and MS knows that. Just like they didn't want a separate CD with a media player.Customer; "I'm buying this new PC. Does it have everything I need?"Salesperson: "No. You'll have to use this other CD to install a browser. You can do that, can't you? Of course we have this one at the same price that does have one pre-installed. Which one do you want?"Another question. How is the user going to get updates if they don't have IE? MS has said nothing about opening up Microsoft Updates to browsers other than IE.MS is just playing its normal games to try to meet the "letter of the law" while playing fast and loose with the spirit.What the EU wants is simple. You buy a new PC and the first time you run it, it gives you the CHOICE of which browser you want to use.The writer of a newsletter that I subscribe to has this to say about the EU case against MS:Opera and the EU want Microsoft to include a so-called ballot screen from which users could choose a browser. This seems a little like forcing Ford to give the buyers of their new cars coupons for discount oil changes at Valvoline and Jiffy Lube and prohibiting them from encouraging car owners to have their oil changed at the dealership. This really seems to be a case of much ado about nothing. With a market share that's 20% lower than it was a few years ago, IE can hardly be called a monopoly product. Microsoft has already provided, in Windows 7, the ability to easily "turn off" IE8 through the Programs and Features applet in Control Panel. There is a plethora of alternative web browsers to choose from and they're easy to download and install. Why is so much time, energy and money being spent on this issue? Seems to me the only winners are the attorneys.And I tend to agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewmur Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 (edited) The writer of a newsletter that I subscribe to has this to say about the EU case against MS:And I tend to agree.I would agree also if MS only had Ford's share of the market. Anti-trust measures would not be fair in that case. But the measures the EU are demanding of a company controlling over 90% of its market are not only fair, IMO they are far, far to mild.Go back and research what the U.S. Justice Dept demanded of IBM in the fifties and sixties and then tell me MS is being subjected to harsh treatment.And, please, don't bother with the tired old argument about MS having "earned" its market share. That is utter nonsense and irrelevant even if it were true. Today, MS is a monopoly who's position in the market is totally dependent on govt granted patents and copyrights. They are the "Ma Bell" of the 21st century. Edited June 19, 2009 by lewmur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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