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striker

Google invaders arrive

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striker

Making ads more interesting (cough cough)http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/03/mak...nteresting.htmlPCWorlds article on this: Google's Behavioral Ad Targeting: How to Reclaim Controlhttp://www.pcworld.com/article/161096/goog...im_control.htmlComputerWorlds article: Google Voice: Press "1" to invade your privacyhttp://blogs.computerworld.com/google_voic...de_your_privacyand this one: Google will let people choose how its ads target themhttp://www.computerworld.com/action/articl...ticleId=9129380and somewhat related at PCMagazine: How to Delete Accounts from Any Websitehttp://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2342599,00.aspI'll shut up about my personal take on this, but longtime members may know how I think of this. :whistling:

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lewmur

Much ado about nothing. Are people really upset because Google is getting better at their job? If you don't like it, don't use google.

Edited by lewmur

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striker

There's only one member at Scots who can react this way.As usual.

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LilBambi

I already got my plugin to make persistent my opt out on this. Thank you Google for giving us the opt out. But I truly think it should have been an opt IN. Just my two cents.Thanks for the correction lewmur.

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Urmas
... Google is getting better at their job
Depends rather heavily on what one considers to be Google's "job", methinks. :whistling:

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lewmur
I already got my plugin to make persistent my opt out on this. Thank you Google for giving us the opt out. But I truly think it should have been an opt out. Just my two cents.
I assume you meant "opt in." But that is unrealistic and unnecessary. Very few, if any would choose to "opt in." The vast majority of people just don't care one way or the other and these are the users being targeted. So long as the "opt out" is easy and straight forward, then that should suffice. There is nothing nefarious in that. Google is a free service that is paid for by advertisers. Without advertisers, there would be no Google. And without methods to target ads, there would be no advertisers.

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lewmur
Depends rather heavily on what one considers to be Google's "job", methinks. :whistling:
Real simple. Their job is to generate advertising income. That is the only way they can stay in business and thus provide users with their search engine.It is certainly not their job to provide anyone with a free lunch. :clap: Edited by lewmur

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Urmas
Real simple. Their job is to generate advertising income.
OK... riiiiight. The shareholders would agree. Those in Mr. & Mrs. Google's payroll would agree. Users would see it a tad differently.

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lewmur
OK... riiiiight. The shareholders would agree. Those in Mr. & Mrs. Google's payroll would agree. Users would see it a tad differently.
In what way? You didn't ask how Google could give away free lunches. You asked what its JOB was. It behooves Google to please its users only in that those users form the audience that the advertisers are trying to reach. Actually, they are under no obligation to even offer the "opt out" option.And, no, I don't think they are offering that option out of the kindness of their hearts. The option is obviously a good "public relations" move.

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redmaledeer

You might check out Scroogle: http://www.scroogle.org/https://ssl.scroogle.org/ It's a single-purpose proxy which stands between you and Google, filtering out all ads from Google, and filtering out all information that Google would otherwise acquire about you. That seems to handle the matter completely, for all browsers and systems. But I plan to look into Google's opt out option anyway, and thanks for making me aware of it. I think the name implies Screw Google.

Edited by redmaledeer

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Temmu
I'll shut up about my personal take on this, but longtime members may know how I think of this. :">
y'all already know how ~i~ feel about freedom of speech / movement / assembly issues, as well as privacy, and i have the deleted posts to prove it.

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lewmur
You might check out Scroogle: http://www.scroogle.org/https://ssl.scroogle.org/ It's a single-purpose proxy which stands between you and Google, filtering out all ads from Google, and filtering out all information that Google would otherwise acquire about you. That seems to handle the matter completely, for all browsers and systems. But I plan to look into Google's opt out option anyway, and thanks for making me aware of it. I think the name implies Screw Google.
Sounds like a good idea to me. I have no problem with people blocking Google's attempt to collect info on their buying habits. I just think it's a little bit of an over reaction to complain about it as if it was the govt tapping your phone.Edit: BTW, are you sure scroolge isn't just diverting the information to their site?? Think about it! :"> Edited by lewmur

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LilBambi

Another one that I have been using is: Ixquick.com

Ixquick offers high quality meta-search results in full privacy!
They do not collect IP addresses and track you. Also through their settings you can set it up to use SSL. That way even ISPs can't read your searches.

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LilBambi
I just think it's a little bit of an over reaction to complain about it as if it was the govt tapping your phone.
But government can track you through your searches; even if those searches were done by someone else on your computer, or on behalf of someone else ... just as easily as Google and other corporations can.I am simply tired of corporations gleaning data on individuals to use against them (errr, to help them sell to them) in ad compaigns, etc. I seem to remember even AOL fell afoul on that score when they didn't even use the user's username/screenname awhile back.

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striker
Ixquick
I was thinking about a search engines name for hours I saw once mentioned here at scot's but the bulb just wouldn't light... thanks for mentioning, nail on the head!

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lewmur
But government can track you through your searches; even if those searches were done by someone else on your computer, or on behalf of someone else ... just as easily as Google and other corporations can.I am simply tired of corporations gleaning data on individuals to use against them (errr, to help them sell to them) in ad compaigns, etc. I seem to remember even AOL fell afoul on that score when they didn't even use the user's username/screenname awhile back.
As tired as you may be, it is their right to glean data from your free use of their service. If you are really that tired of it, don't use the service. ****, it's not even as if its difficult. There are more search engines out there than you can shake a stick at. Don't like Google? Use ask.com. But don't think any of them are going to ignore the data you give them. Corps do that. It is not only their nature, it is their responsibility. If they didn't, there wouldn't be a Google. Edited by lewmur

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LilBambi

Believe me, I am looking at other services to use.

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LilBambi

Which is why I am trying out things like Scroogle and Ixquick.Ixquick is looking pretty good to me.But thankfully, Google gives you a way to Opt Out and I have done so. So I will see how things go.I think that since Google is being up front about it, and giving folks a way to at least Opt Out, then they are still trying to be a "do no evil" company for the most part.

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lewmur
Which is why I am trying out things like Scroogle and Ixquick.Ixquick is looking pretty good to me.But thankfully, Google gives you a way to Opt Out and I have done so. So I will see how things go.I think that since Google is being up front about it, and giving folks a way to at least Opt Out, then they are still trying to be a "do no evil" company for the most part.
It is the idea that tracking your use of a free service is somehow "evil" that bothers me. There is nothing "evil" about it. You might object to it but that doesn't make it "evil." It is a "trade off." If you don't like the "bargain," don't use the service.It is not as if they are checking to see if you are buying "atomic triggers" or 'kiddie porn." They just want to know if you prefer "Colgate toothpaste" to "baking soda."Oh no!! Wait! If I never go to a "kiddie porn" site, that must mean that I'm "repressed" and someone is "analyzing" me!! Oh terror!!! What am I to do??? Edited by lewmur

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LilBambi

Google is changing their service offers. They were the ones that called themselves 'do no evil' company. When companies choose to change their services from previously public TOS, it's time to look even more closely at the company.That is our right as a user of a service. And to let them know they will lose our business or searches, if they continue. That is all I am doing. If they hadn't given me a way to opt out, I would have stopped using their service. That is also my right as a user of the service.I am thankful for the service they have provided. I am just sad to see that it's opt out and not opt in because many may not be aware (live under a rock) and not keep up on the TOS.And I hate going to stores like Walmart now too due to the RFID everywhere and some companies snapping pictures of browsers who pick up the items.Things are getting way too intrusive, IMHO. And there are many sites that I don't frequent at all because of their TOS.

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lewmur
Google is changing their service offers. They were the ones that called themselves 'do no evil' company. When companies choose to change their services from previously public TOS, it's time to look even more closely at the company.That is our right as a user of a service. And to let them know they will lose our business or searches, if they continue. That is all I am doing. If they hadn't given me a way to opt out, I would have stopped using their service. That is also my right as a user of the service.I am thankful for the service they have provided. I am just sad to see that it's opt out and not opt in because many may not be aware (live under a rock) and not keep up on the TOS.And I hate going to stores like Walmart now too due to the RFID everywhere and some companies snapping pictures of browsers who pick up the items.Things are getting way too intrusive, IMHO. And there are many sites that I don't frequent at all because of their TOS.
If you consider it intrusive then use another service. But, as I said, "opt in" is NOT an option. Maybe one person in a 1000 will "opt out." But not one in a 1,000,000 would bother to "opt in." That idea is just ridiculous.As I've said before, you have a PUBLISHED blog. Anyone can determine far more about you from that than they ever would from tracking your Google searches. It becomes down right silly for someone who publishes a blog to worry about "opting out" or "opting in" to what ads accompany Google results. Edited by lewmur

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LilBambi

I have already said if they hadn't given the option of opt out that I would have used another service repeatedly.It is not ridiculous to say it would have been nice to have been opt in. That is just your opinion and you are entitled to it, as I am entitled to mine.

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redmaledeer

From Lewmur about Scroogle (a proxy shielding you from Google): "BTW, are you sure scroolge isn't just diverting the information to their site?? Think about it!" I totally agree. If you go thru an intermediary you have to trust that **they** aren't collecting information. Otherwise you may be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I've used Scroogle for years, with no apparent ill effects. (Wait! Why are those black helicopters hovering over my house?) Their website rants and raves like true opponents of the establishment. And indeed, "Daniel Brandt, founder and president," is a long-time anti-establishment gadfly, irritant, and critic. (That's according to Google and Wikipedia.) I've heard of Ixquick and used it a few times. I guess inertia and the fact that I'm satisfied with Scroogle+Google has kept me from switching to Ixquick. But while we're on the subject of trustworthiness, how would one know whether Ixquick is trustworthy? I haven't thought this thru, but would an anonymizer prevent Google from collecting information about you?

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Ed_P

I don't like shoes too small they hurt my feet. So I stopped buying them.I don't like big cars that get lousey gas milage. So I stopped buying them.I don't like phone service that charges for long distance calls. So I stopped using them.I don't like pc shops that charge and arm and a leg for simple fixes. So I stopped using them.If I find a search engine I don't like guess what I'm going to do.I don't care if someone/thing tracks my driving habits, telephone usage, tv watching or web searches. I'm not trying to hide anything. I'm not doing anything illegal or anything I'd be embarassed about if someone found out. But I understand that not everyone is like me and I understand why they don't want anyone to know what they're doing. What they don't understand is being vocal about it draws attention to themselves making people wonder what they have to hide. ;)

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LilBambi
If you aren't doing anything wrong, what do you have to hide? (ShiftedPixels.com)
The most common retort against privacy advocates -- by those in favor of ID checks, cameras, databases, data mining and other wholesale surveillance measures -- is this line: "If you aren't doing anything wrong, what do you have to hide?"Some clever answers: "If I'm not doing anything wrong, then you have no cause to watch me." "Because the government gets to define what's wrong, and they keep changing the definition." "Because you might do something wrong with my information." My problem with quips like these -- as right as they are -- is that they accept the premise that privacy is about hiding a wrong. It's not. Privacy is an inherent human right, and a requirement for maintaining the human condition with dignity and respect.Two proverbs say it best: Quis custodiet custodes ipsos? ("Who watches the watchers?") and "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."
Debunking a myth: If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear (ComputerWeekly.com)

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lewmur
How can you debunk a myth that doesn't exist? Nobody here has used that argument. It isn't a question of anyone having anything to hide. When you use Google to search, you are using a business to preform that search. Therefore, that business is not invading your privacy when it uses your searches to target advertising ON ITS SITE!!!!! You have no expectation of privacy when you willingly post information to a business.It is really very simple. If you don't like Google's targeted advertising, then don't use their site. If you choose not to use their site, I'll promise that neither I, nor Google, will accuse you of having something to hide. Edited by lewmur

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LilBambi
How can you debunk a myth that doesn't exist? Nobody here has used that argument. It isn't a question of anyone having anything to hide. When you use Google to search, you are using a business to preform that search. Therefore, that business is not invading your privacy when it uses your searches to target advertising ON ITS SITE!!!!! You have no expectation of privacy when you willingly post information to a business.It is really very simple. If you don't like Google's targeted advertising, then don't use their site. If you choose not to use their site, I'll promise that neither I, nor Google, will accuse you of having something to hide.
I wasn't responding to you lewmur. I was responding to the following:
I don't care if someone/thing tracks my driving habits, telephone usage, tv watching or web searches. I'm not trying to hide anything. I'm not doing anything illegal or anything I'd be embarassed about if someone found out. But I understand that not everyone is like me and I understand why they don't want anyone to know what they're doing. What they don't understand is being vocal about it draws attention to themselves making people wonder what they have to hide. :thumbsup:
bold emphasis mineBut since you brought it up, I simply refer you to the topic title/description:Google invaders arrive, Privacy? What privacy?As I said before, I will stop using Google if I feel they are abusing the trust they cultivated with their 'do no evil' history. I have not seen that to be the case so far since they give us a way to opt out.

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Temmu

the philosophy that 'i'm not doing anything wrong, so everyone please take a look' is ill founded.where does one draw the line? your bath tub? i'm not doing anything immoral, unethical or illegal there either...

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redmaledeer

I one is considering Ixquick or Scroogle one might also take a look at BlackBoxSearch (www.blackboxsearch.com). Like Scroogle, this is a proxy which stands between you and the search engine. To me Scroogle looks better, but I haven't used BlackBoxSearch, and tastes vary.

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striker
B) It's getting chili pepper hot here! Let's get over it and take a coffee. I for me eliminated google as a search engine to be used and I use something else. The only problem left is dumping gmail and replace it with something else too, which has also the great spam control like gmail. Credit where credit goes but their spam control is great IMO. I once saw a mention somewhere here of GMX, so I'll have a look at that and their Privacy Policy. If I don't like it I have to go looking elsewhere. If I can't find anything suitable, then that's it. Game over. No free lunch, No free beer. No free mail service. I'm afraid the problem is in the 'service' in the first place. :thumbsup:

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