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raymac46

Gentoo Linux

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I was chatting with a guy on another Linux forum. He has the same motherboard as I do in his desktop system. He was running Gentoo 64 bit though. He couldn't get his sound to work and was resorting to Gentoo kernel drivers instead of alsa. Sound is something that just worked out of the box for me on every distro I tried with my mobo. It appears that he had to compile everything he wanted to use.Is Gentoo something you attempt if Slackware is too easy for you? It seems like another world to me. There are some things in Linux I'll never be geeky enough to master, I guess. ;)

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Is Gentoo something you attempt if Slackware is too easy for you? It seems like another world to me.
Anxiously waiting for Eric's reply... ;)

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I think, if you go by Eric's experiences, Gentoo is for those who really want to muck up their systems. ;)

Anxiously waiting for Eric's reply... B)
Ooops, I guess I should have read further before responding to Ray. :thumbsup:

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;) I could just name another one in this league: sabayon, when time permits...Where have I heard that slogan before? B)

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I have YET to get Gentoo on any of my systems successfully. I have a burned copy of the recent version, but haven't had the time to try it again. As Sue and Urmas are hinting at, I haven't had the best of luck with Gentoo. The last time I tried it, it ATE my hard drive. Slackware is for simpletons, by comparison. B)

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It appears that he had to compile everything he wanted to use.Is Gentoo something you attempt if Slackware is too easy for you? It seems like another world to me. There are some things in Linux I'll never be geeky enough to master, I guess.
You could also say it this way ray:If you are swimming in time, have an absolute need to see in real time what happens when you compile a package, you want to compile every single package your self, you don't mind to sit staring at the screen for hours while packages get build/compiled, eventually realizing the whole process is not sticking to linux standards, and you are willing to read and study a builders manual, then maybe Gentoo is for you.Some of these points also goes for Sabayon.If you want a distro which installs relatively easy and you want the possibility to be able to compile packages when you need to do so, you want a distro which sticks to the letter of linux standards, then Slackware is for you.I've worked with both Sabayon and Slackware in the past. From my experiences, Slackware would be the winner here, but of course that's my personal preference. OTOH whatever I tried to compile myself in Slackware, just compiled without a single problem. Slackware however has its own specialities which have to te worked around. Without experience you will need some help, but setting your teeth in it and don't let loose will definitely make you gaining that experience. Once you have a Slack system up and running, worked around the few problem areas and tuned and tweaked the system to your likings, you then will start to enjoy the systems speed and 'breeze', it just flies and it does so with style and color.At this right moment when you would have opted for either Gentoo or Sabayon, you would have been at the stage of compiling one of the first ten packages or so.Mind you, Gentoo and Sabayon may be very good distros. From what I certainly can say about Gentoo is its excellent documentation. But what I also should say is that Gentoo could be very well in deep problems according to posts on the net, and Sabayon: well, from what I have read the project is in slow waters at the moment. So for both of them goes the question what will bring the future, while for Slack there are no questions to be asked at all. It's one of the oldest if not the oldest distro around. We can't say that for other players, some have seen daylight and some time later on they just vanished or were left unmaintained. Not so for Slackware, it just gets developed and maintained and regular updated.

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Thanks striker and Eric. Based on your responses I think I was right about NOT choosing Gentoo as a distro for a (relatively) new Linux user.I have not worked directly with Slackware but I do very much like Vector Linux which is Slack based.When I first installed Vector I had been used to the Live CD installs featured by Ubuntu and PCLOS so it was an initial "culture shock". I soon learned the intricacies of partitioning and a text based installer, and now I use the Alternate Install CD for any distro if possible.I think I'd have little trouble installing Slackware. My only concern is (putting on my flameproof suit) that Slack seems to concentrate on KDE as its desktop and I am a confirmed Gnomie.I'm sure I could put in Dropline Gnome, but it really is much easier to use Mandriva or Ubuntu and get a Gnome desktop out of the box. Mandriva I find is a truly excellent distro and I'm glad I was introduced to it at this forum.As far as speed goes just about any distro is going to fly on today's hardware. Ubuntu Gutsy is lightning quick on this X2 4600+ desktop.

Edited by raymac46

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I'm sure I could put in Dropline Gnome, but it really is much easier to use Mandriva or Ubuntu and get a Gnome desktop out of the box.
Dropline Gnome is evil! Well, it's evil if you install it wrong like I did. B)

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I would go here:http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/and in the 'search this forum' field enter 'gnome', click the 'show posts' radio button and hit enter.Then all results will give you an impression why KDE is Slacks preference and where - if - you may get gnome.(I don't run slack on this notebook)Just a quote from those results:

And end up like the dependency nightmare that is Gnome? Let alone the extra work required by Pat to keep this up and maintain it.
I would definitely start and stay with KDE at least until it is running and you have all the workarounds done and got all necessary updates. Then finally you could try to get gnome. That way your base of slack is 100 percent up to date and tweaked and tuned and in a working state. :( Whenever something still goes wrong with gnome - if you still decide you want it, you always can revert to a good working KDE.And be prepared there's no lunaticus overhyped sudo business, it's the proven good old root account and root login when required and the standard user account for everydays usage like the old days, the way it should be. (unless you want to be babysitted like with that other OS) :PWhat can I say more : Slack is a typical example of a linux distro which can get you enthusiastic. Once you are at that stage, you want more of it, just to beat it and be the one who tamed it on your computer to something that really does what you tell it to do so. Once you realize that, it could very well be that you decide to have it as your main distro. ;)
Dropline Gnome is evil! Well, it's evil if you install it wrong like I did. B)
Sue, you could be of help once ray starts with gnome in slack. You know that ?

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Sue, you could be of help once ray starts with gnome in slack. You know that ?
As in what NOT to do? B) I've known Ray for a long time and I know if he were to try Slackware, he'd surpass my abilities (HA!) very quickly. And we might even turn him into a KDE convert to boot! It worked for Eric.

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It worked for Eric.
Only because he was careless and let his guard down for a second. Accidents DO happen. B)

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:bye2: That's what I call a great idea! Love it. :oops:
I come up with them every once in awhile. B) I love Slackware because it's my let's-learn-to-do-this-today distro. But I'm not a confident Slacker and boy, do I ever make a lot of mistakes with it. I've had to reinstall it often (most of the times I'm just too embarrassed to come in here and ask for help after some of my boo-boos. :ph34r: ) but it's a learning experience every time I try something new, good or bad.Besides, I have to try these things in Slackware. I'm under orders to NEVER try them in Mandriva. :(
Only because he was careless and let his guard down for a second. Accidents DO happen. ;)
You die hard Gnomies have got to learn that there's more to Linux than Nautilus. :nuke:

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As in what NOT to do? :( I've known Ray for a long time and I know if he were to try Slackware, he'd surpass my abilities (HA!) very quickly. And we might even turn him into a KDE convert to boot! It worked for Eric.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Sue. I'll always think of you as my mentor though. You were the one who convinced me to try Linux in the first place, and introduced me to this forum of kindred spirits. B) I have been tempted to give Slackware a test drive on my testbed machine. It's just that I am a total Gnomie. I like its look and feel and apps best. I doubt that I'd be happy with anything else for my "production" Linux system. That's why I stick with Ubuntu there.

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It's just that I am a total Gnomie. I like its look and feel and apps best. I doubt that I'd be happy with anything else for my "production" Linux system.
Have you tried desensitization? I've had some success with it. Of course, when it comes to Slackware, there's always Xfce... B)

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Have you tried desensitization? I've had some success with it. Of course, when it comes to Slackware, there's always Xfce... B)
Desensitization ? Would that mean I'd have to be locked in with a roomful of PCs all running KDE? :( I have successfully used Vector Linux which does have a nice Xfce desktop and features Abiword and Gnumeric..that is true. No Rhythmbox though.

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You tried Linux a couple of weeks or so after I did. ;) These folks here are the nicest bunch when it comes to giving me help. I was ready to give up when Eric sent me here. And no one told me to RTFM like two other forums had told me to do, which BTW, I only figured out what it meant a few weeks ago. We'll get you trying Slackware before too long. You're curious, I can tell. And how could you not be? It's the best! B)

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I banged my head against the wall big time with "11"... couldn't get GUI... now I have "12" installed and working in VirtualBox. ;)

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Fair warning, Ray... once Slack; never back. :hysterical:
Maybe I'll give it a try - although Vector Linux 5.9 seems to give a nice Slack experience.

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Debian is also a great experience. Sidux is cutting edge Debian with the edges smoothed and polished. I can't get over how good the RC1 of Sidux 2008-1 (nyx) is, and the final will be soon. :D I know it's a Slackware topic, but Debian is equally stable and Sidux is magic. :hysterical: :thumbsup:

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Vector is a nice distro, Ray.And sunrat... you know I won't ever say anything bad about my "second Linux love"... Debian. It's my back-up distro on my system. Between Deb and Slack, you have the "pillars or Heracles" of stability. It don't get no more stable than those two. B)

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Actually you misidentified Gentoo. From using it for a year or two I can tell you that reality says it is for folks that are not in Bruno's league and not up to running Linux From Scratch. If you ever get Gentoo up and running it is sweet. It is a conpletely different language and you spend hours watching the screen fly by with code but not understanding a lot of it. It gives you a greater understanding of what it takes to get a computer running.You could always run the gnome version of PCLinuxOS. (Had to get my plug in for that fine distro. :'( )

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You could also say it this way ray:If you are swimming in time, have an absolute need to see in real time what happens when you compile a package, you want to compile every single package your self, you don't mind to sit staring at the screen for hours while packages get build/compiled, eventually realizing the whole process is not sticking to linux standards, and you are willing to read and study a builders manual, then maybe Gentoo is for you.Some of these points also goes for Sabayon.If you want a distro which installs relatively easy and you want the possibility to be able to compile packages when you need to do so, you want a distro which sticks to the letter of linux standards, then Slackware is for you.I've worked with both Sabayon and Slackware in the past. From my experiences, Slackware would be the winner here, but of course that's my personal preference. OTOH whatever I tried to compile myself in Slackware, just compiled without a single problem. Slackware however has its own specialities which have to te worked around. Without experience you will need some help, but setting your teeth in it and don't let loose will definitely make you gaining that experience. Once you have a Slack system up and running, worked around the few problem areas and tuned and tweaked the system to your likings, you then will start to enjoy the systems speed and 'breeze', it just flies and it does so with style and color.At this right moment when you would have opted for either Gentoo or Sabayon, you would have been at the stage of compiling one of the first ten packages or so.Mind you, Gentoo and Sabayon may be very good distros. From what I certainly can say about Gentoo is its excellent documentation. But what I also should say is that Gentoo could be very well in deep problems according to posts on the net, and Sabayon: well, from what I have read the project is in slow waters at the moment. So for both of them goes the question what will bring the future, while for Slack there are no questions to be asked at all. It's one of the oldest if not the oldest distro around. We can't say that for other players, some have seen daylight and some time later on they just vanished or were left unmaintained. Not so for Slackware, it just gets developed and maintained and regular updated.
The problem is, people don't fully understand all the options you have with Gentoo or Sabayon. You don't have to stare at a screen for hours watching real time compiling. Gentoo is always in the public eye of the ship is sinking, it still hasn't sunk and it's not going to sink. Portage is more active now than it has been, even during all the crying on the forums. People making conclusions and bad press reporting. Distrowatch reporting has it's flaws.Sabayon has only slowed the releases down because of all the new implementations that are being developed and are just now starting to come out for public testing. If you keep your portage and overlays updated you can keep up with the development. Gentoo and Sabayon are meant to be rolling releases, install once and forget about it. You can always keep current. Arch Linux uses the same principals and is available via source and binary, just like Gentoo. There is many advantages to using these distros. They are not for the beginners and they are not for everyone. I just hate seeing people making the wrong conclusions or giving bad information about them.You can do binary with any of the above systems. You can even build your own binaries and host them. I feel that defeats the purpose of the system, but the world is so hung up on binaries cause that is all they know. People freak if they have to type .config, make and make install or if a package takes 20 minutes to install. Just cause you build or compile a package, it doesn't make your computer useless. You can still do whatever your doing while the package builds in the background. You can run complete system upgrades while you sleep and wake up to a freshly update computer with the latest packages and security fixes. I understand it's not for everyone, but don't knock it till ya really know it. I can't imagine using anything else outside of Gentoo based or Arch Linux.

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Well I wouldn't use a system which takes hours and hours to install and build. I ain't gonna torture myself, thanks. Like I mentioned above, I have used Sabayon, until it came out of my throat. It wasn't ready for prime time despite the big words out there.

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Well I wouldn't use a system which takes hours and hours to install and build. I ain't gonna torture myself, thanks. Like I mentioned above, I have used Sabayon, until it came out of my throat. It wasn't ready for prime time despite the big words out there.
Like I said, it's not for everyone, but it doesn't make it bad or deserve bad information. With today's computers, compiling really is irrelevant. I tell people to use what works for them. Sabayon is new ideas and implementations, it's very popular but like with any distro, it has issues and it only has one developer that works on it. It doesn't have a team like bigger distros have. It works very well for what it has. The pro edition has been dropped and developers are needed, but it won't stop till Fabio stops and he has no intentions of doing that. The loop2 of 3.5 will introduce a lot of the new development, which has the ability to do strictly binary management, no need for portage. The installer since 3.4 has offered a core install, so if it didn't work well for you, than you could of built from the core to what you needed. The options are there which makes it so versatile. People need to be aware of the options. Edited by havnblast

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You could always run the gnome version of PCLinuxOS. (Had to get my plug in for that fine distro. :D )
Tried it and it was too buggy. The live CD choked part way through the boot process and never started at all. I'll stick with Ubuntu or Mandriva Gnome, thanks.

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