Small Issues with Vista Build 5728

[Gary]

1. Screen saver will not work2. Will not go into sleep mode automatically3. Refresh Rate will; not go above 60 hz4. Windows Mail will not permit two distinct accounts.5. The UAC is really annoying.Now I realize that this is a development stage but is Microsoft going backwards? I did NOT have these issues with builds 5308 and 5384. The OS seems to have gotten worse and not better with the release of RC1. The first three issues should not be there this late in the game. This release does NOT give me a desire to go out and spend $259.00 to upgrade to Vista from Xp Pro. What os does do is make LINUX look real good right now.It just seems to me as the closer a OS gets to being released the better it should be. At this rate I don't see MS making their Jan 2007 release date, at least not with an OS not full of bugs.

[Marsden11]

1.- Does your video do 3D? My screen savers work just fine.2.- What are your power settings? Have you played with them?3.- Depends on the video drivers you are using... Are they still in beta? Have you tried a different video card?4.- I have not played with Windows mail. I'm using Outlook 2007.5.- If you don't like it turn it off.

[Gary]

1.- Does your video do 3D? My screen savers work just fine.2.- What are your power settings? Have you played with them?3.- Depends on the video drivers you are using... Are they still in beta? Have you tried a different video card?4.- I have not played with Windows mail. I'm using Outlook 2007.5.- If you don't like it turn it off.

1. Yes2, Default-yes3, My Video Card is on the list as being Vista ready4. I should not have to turn something off that does not work. I also switched to Outlook 2007.I forgot to add that it will NOT create a restore point on it's own and when I create one manually it is gone when I restart.

[Marsden11]

I had a video card on the list as well and it worked just fine with the earlier builds. But had to RMA it when Vista failed to even install. ATI claimed it should not have a problem. But it did and off it went back to ATI. I would check your video card before passing judgement on Vista.Most of your issues are video related.UAC works the way it was designed to work. If you don't like it you can easily turn it off. You can disable it completely or just modify it slightly through Group Policy. Your choice.My restore points have worked just fine... If Vista was severely flawed at this stage, would it not be across the board for everyone?

Edited September 28, 2006 by Marsden11

[Gary]

I had a video card on the list as well and it worked just fine with the earlier builds. But had to RMA it when Vista failed to even install. ATI claimed it should not have a problem. But it did and off it went back to ATI. I would check your video card before passing judgement on Vista.Most of your issues are video related.UAC works the way it was designed to work. If you don't like it you can easily turn it off. You can disable it completely or just modify it slightly through Group Policy. Your choice.My restore points have worked just fine... If Vista was severely flawed at this stage, would it not be across the board for everyone?

If you noticed the title, I did not say it was severely flawed. What I am saying is that the further am OS gets along in the cycle the better it should be. Things that worked in earlier releases should not stop working. If MS says a VC is supported then it should work.Small Issues with Vista Build 5728 Edited September 28, 2006 by Gary

[Rons]

Gary - may I suggest you file 'bug reports' to MS explaining the problems you have experienced.Apparantely there are problems that need to be addressed, or MS would not of come out with another release to RC1.

[Gary]

Gary - may I suggest you file 'bug reports' to MS explaining the problems you have experienced.Apparantely there are problems that need to be addressed, or MS would not of come out with another release to RC1.

I did Ron

[Keegan]

UAC works the way it was designed to work. If you don't like it you can easily turn it off. You can disable it completely or just modify it slightly through Group Policy. Your choice.

please tell me how I easily can turn it off, i can't find any option for thisthanx

[Marsden11]

Build 5728 (click on each one)Control Panel> User Accounts and Family Safety> Make Changes to User Accounts> Turn User Account Control on or off (click on this and you get:)Turn on User Account Control (UAC) to make your computer more secureUser Account Control (UAC) can help prevent unauthorized changes to your computer. We recommend that you leave UAC turned on to help protect your computer.[ ] Use User Account Control (UAC) to help protect your computerJust uncheck the box to turn UAC off.

[Marsden11]

Above was brute force.There's a slightly more subtle configuration choice that gives you some of the benefits of UAC without any of the prompting. You'll need to edit the local security policy to control this, as follows:From the Start search bar, type "Local Security Policy" Accept the elevation prompt From the snap-in, select Security Settings -> Local Policy -> Security Options Scroll down to the bottom, where you'll find nine different group policy settings for granular configuration of UAC.The best choice to select is to change the setting:User Account Control: Behavior of the elevation prompt for administrators in Admin Approval Mode from Prompt for consent to Elevate without prompting.What does this do? Despite the warning from the Windows Security Center, UAC isn't actually switched off. It's still there, and all your processes will still run as a standard user.

[ThunderRiver]

It just seems to me as the closer a OS gets to being released the better it should be.

Well, if you have been invovled in the software development as complicated as Windows, you would know that is not true. There is no way you can turn software development into a linear relationship between quality and time.Keep in mind that I do NOT represent Windows group, but anything between 5600 RC1 and 5730 are actually bug fix builds. Sometimes, when you fix something, you break something else (aka dependancy issue). Every OS has that issue, especially if you have thousands of people working on this OS (changes & fixes are made every second around the globe). However, right at this stage, Vista is now well within RTM branch, which means, bugs are rapidly being fixed before RTM. Edited September 29, 2006 by ThunderRiver

[Gary]

Well, if you have been invovled in the software development as complicated as Windows, you would know that is not true. There is no way you can turn software development into a linear relationship between quality and time.Keep in mind that I do NOT represent Windows group, but anything between 5600 RC1 and 5730 are actually bug fix builds. Sometimes, when you fix something, you break something else (aka dependancy issue). Every OS has that issue, especially if you have thousands of people working on this OS (changes & fixes are made every second around the globe). However, right at this stage, Vista is now well within RTM branch, which means, bugs are rapidly being fixed before RTM.

Well seeing how Xp is still quite a mess you are probably right, maybe by Vista SP4 They will get at least somethings right. I have been fulling with PC's since I learned Assembly Language Programming on a TRS-80 back in 1983. It at least functioned as designed. I can't restart Vista without loosing the refresh rate. The freakin screen saver will not work. These are things that should have been fixed long before Vista became a release candidate. A RC means that it is close to release. Trust me Vista is far from being released. Edited September 29, 2006 by Gary

[Marsden11]

Even though your VC is "on" the list, you are 100% (through hardware testing) sure that there is no possibility that your VC is not possibly dying or not operating exactly as it did when it was brand new?Basically, have you tried another video card to see if it is hardware or OS related?

[ThunderRiver]

Well seeing how Xp is still quite a mess you are probably right, maybe by Vista SP4 They will get at least somethings right.

My response is, obviously, Microsoft can't make everyone happy.

[Gary]

Even though your VC is "on" the list, you are 100% (through hardware testing) sure that there is no possibility that your VC is not possibly dying or not operating exactly as it did when it was brand new?Basically, have you tried another video card to see if it is hardware or OS related?

The VC works perfectly fine in Xp Pro, various Linux Distros, Win98. When I restart Xp the refresh rate does not change. I have given up on trying to fix it, I filed several reports with MS, but they probably get thousands a day. My VC is close to the low end of being Vista ready but MS says it is, if it is not then they should state so. I am not going out to purchase a new VC just to run a RC version of Vista. If and when I decide to buy it, I may give it some thought.

My response is, obviously, Microsoft can't make everyone happy.

Microsoft's job is to put a product out on the market that works. Not to release one and still be patching it 5 years later. They say Vista will create 50,000 jobs and they are right but most of them will be in India.

[ThunderRiver]

Microsoft's job is to put a product out on the market that works. Not to release one and still be patching it 5 years later. They say Vista will create 50,000 jobs and they are right but most of them will be in India.

If you intend to criticize a beta OS, go ahead, and I won't take you seriously. I just said very clearly that 5728 is not RC quality. It is a bug fix build. If that's not clear enough, I don't know what else is.

[Marsden11]

Please name ANY OS that has never needed or required a patch after being released to the public.I'll save you some typing... You can't!

[Gary]

If you intend to criticize a beta OS, go ahead, and I won't take you seriously. I just said very clearly that 5728 is not RC quality. It is a bug fix build. If that's not clear enough, I don't know what else is.

5728 was released as an RC. So obviously you are the one not to be taken seriously. Now I am done with this foolishness. Vista is not ready for prime time.Build 5600 should never have been released as an RC and neither should have 5728. There is a long way to go, but MS is pushing it trying to make an unreal deadline. Beta OS's have problems but when an RC is released it is almost ready for production. All I am saying is that Vista 5728 and 5734 that was released today are no where near being ready.I have been using various builds of Vista for about 7 months now and The one that was most stable was 5384. At least when I turned off my machine, it turned back on with the same settings.You can believe as you wish. This is a forum to voice one's opinion. I will criticize any OS as I see fit.If you read some articles on the NET you will see a great deal of criticism. So you don't take Scot seriously then either as he has openly criticized Vista.

[Keegan]

Above was brute force.There's a slightly more subtle configuration choice that gives you some of the benefits of UAC without any of the prompting. You'll need to edit the local security policy to control this, as follows:From the Start search bar, type "Local Security Policy" Accept the elevation prompt From the snap-in, select Security Settings -> Local Policy -> Security Options Scroll down to the bottom, where you'll find nine different group policy settings for granular configuration of UAC.The best choice to select is to change the setting:User Account Control: Behavior of the elevation prompt for administrators in Admin Approval Mode from Prompt for consent to Elevate without prompting.What does this do? Despite the warning from the Windows Security Center, UAC isn't actually switched off. It's still there, and all your processes will still run as a standard user.

thanx Marsden11

[patio]

You are all missing the point here...3 Beta's and RC1 are out there so people can find out what is wrong...Gary has been checking things out for seven months now and submitting reports.I think his beefs are valid.patio.

[Marsden11]

Is it RTM yet? Nope! So get over it!

[Gary]

Is it RTM yet? Nope! So get over it!

The point is that it is no where close to being RTM.

[Gary]

Some need pictures:Source

[ThunderRiver]

We know what RC quality is. But we also know what bug fix builds are. We certainly know the process of product life cycle for building software as complicated as Windows.You found the bug. You reported it. What more you want? Beatng the dead horse really won't get you anywhere.On the side note, you should be very proud of what you did for Microsoft. Yes, it should not happen at this stage, but becuase of you, others with similar hardware configuration can avoid the same fate.

Edited September 30, 2006 by ThunderRiver

[Scot]

Look, plain and simple: The product is not done until it's shipping. Every word that ThunderRiver and Marsden wrote is correct on this point. Expecting a pre-release product to be good to go is naive. Things always break at this point in time. As Rons said, there's no point in jawing about. File the bug and move on. You cannot expect ANY software development company to finish a product before it's finished. Software is complex. As ThunderRiver said, this is not a linear process -- AT ALL!You should not install RC1 or RC2 or any build on your production machine -- unless you totally get this and know what you're doing -- before the final release.Now, to add a tidbit to this thread, I can corroborate that there are issues with Sleep and 5728. I am sure it's not on every computer, but on my Dell Inspiron E1505, the product must be rebooted whenever it enters Sleep. It will not return from Sleep no matter what I do.-- Scot

[Gary]

Look, plain and simple: The product is not done until it's shipping. Every word that ThunderRiver and Marsden wrote is correct on this point. Expecting a pre-release product to be good to go is naive. Things always break at this point in time. As Rons said, there's no point in jawing about. File the bug and move on. You cannot expect ANY software development company to finish a product before it's finished. Software is complex. As ThunderRiver said, this is not a linear process -- AT ALL!You should not install RC1 or RC2 or any build on your production machine -- unless you totally get this and know what you're doing -- before the final release.Now, to add a tidbit to this thread, I can corroborate that there are issues with Sleep and 5728. I am sure it's not on every computer, but on my Dell Inspiron E1505, the product must be rebooted whenever it enters Sleep. It will not return from Sleep no matter what I do.-- Scot

I am not saying that it is good to go. I am saying that at this point in the development stage , Vista should be better than it currently is. That is all.

A major example of a public beta test was when Microsoft started releasing regular Windows Vista Community Technology Previews (CTP) to beta testers starting in January 2005. The first of these was build 5219. Subsequent CTPs introduced most of the planned features, as well as a number of changes to the user interface, based in large part on feedback from beta testers. Windows Vista was deemed feature complete with the release of build 5308 CTP, released on February 22, 2006, and much of the remainder of work between that build and the final release of the product will focus on stability, performance, application and driver compatibility, and documentation.

Things that have worked in prior Build should continue to work in later releases and not stop working. Ron did not have sound with 5600, now he does with 5728. I do not expect it to be without bugs but as an RC it should be close to RTM and it is far from it. Today I put 5600 back on so I have both 5728 and 5600 on my machine. What I pklan to do with 5600 is to do all I can to get this refresh rate to work. I am not installing any programs on it.Scot , below are your own words from the August newsletter. All I am saying is basicaly the same thing.

It's very likely there will be a second release candidate of Vista, probably four to five weeks after RC1 appears. Judging from past Windows development cycles, What you see in RC1 is pretty much what you get when the product ships. At least 90% of the changes incorporated after RC1 will likely be bug fixes.

.

[Gary]

You should not install RC1 or RC2 or any build on your production machine -- unless you totally get this and know what you're doing -- before the final release.

I do not install any Beta or RC of any product on my production machine.

[Gary]

Ok, long story short. I installed 5600 and tried to get the refresh rate to work. I did, until I rebooted and it as in 5728 reverted back to 60Hz. In the process of this I lost all sound from 5728. This is a bug, I reported it and I'm done fooling with it. It is just a minor annoyance anyway. But the point I made is still valid as is everyone's in this thread. It is still in development but an RC should be almost ready for prime time.