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Build your own or buy?


Peachy

Who built your computer?  

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  • 2 months later...

A few things I learned over the last couple of years about new desktop systems:

  • You'll likely only need to replace the CPU box when you upgrade. The speakers and monitors last a long time and if you have DVI or HDMI on the monitor you are good to go.
  • If you buy, go for a business grade unit. You'll get a nicer case with better cable management and a decent mobo/CPU combination. My Acer Veriton even has an upgraded cooler for the CPU, and also features Windows 7 Pro. A lot less crapware as well.
  • That said a commercially available unit will have some compromises. In my instance it was a wimpy power supply and poor integrated video - fine for business but no good for gaming. I had to pay extra to replace the PS and add a video card. Cooling was also inadequate so I had to put in a case fan. I also added some RAM so at the end of the day it probably would have been cheaper to spec and build the machine as I now have it.
  • If you are going to get a new machine for Linux, there's no question that you should build it yourself. You can make sure your hardware is Linux friendly, and you don't have to buy Windows or remove it from the PC. You also don't have to worry about the UEFI/Secure Boot nonsense either if Windows 8 was never installed.
  • Bottom line - if you are upgrading a desktop system it still makes a lot of sense to DIY even if the economics are about the same.

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  • 6 years later...

I see a lot of "dead" pinned threads here, what happened?   I see a lot of interesting threads, for example this one. This could be really informative, as to suggest which PC's are worth buying already built 

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V.T. Eric Layton

Inactivity on this thread, and elsewhere here at Scot's, is the result of Time and Drift. Time passes; members drift (off). It is what it is. :ermm:

 

However, the good news is that you are a recently minted member. That's a good thing. WELCOME to Scot's! :th_hello-smiley:

 

Cheers!

 

~Eric

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In my view the Buy vs Build question is now mostly a moot point for a couple of reasons.

  • A lot of Internet activity has migrated to laptops, tablets and smartphones and it is almost impossible to build these things.
  • The only thing you want to build now is a beefy desktop capable of gaming at a reasonable level, or something to support multiple monitors (or both.) In the majority of situations the person who wants this type of rig is savvy enough to build it. Building is pretty easy these days anyway.
  • Even if you want a basic desktop, it's an easy enough job - so it's probably better to build rather than get a crummy cheap box with an external power supply.

The one exception I can think of is buy a solid off lease commercial desktop and you can upgrade it a bit with a graphics card and maybe a better power supply. That is partially a building exercise.

Edited by raymac46
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Hello,

 

One thing about laptops, tablets and smartphones is that as the devices have become thinner, the manufacturers have moved to non-user serviceable models which are essentially laminated together.  Not particularly easy to repair when you need specialized tools like digitally-controlled heating plates to soften glue without damaging batteries or circuitry.  There is some slim possibility this will change in the future due to right to repair laws being enacted.

 

One thing about desktops is that building them can be fun.  Some people like working on their cars, others on their PCs. But, as you point out, the market is no longer such that people need to build custom PCs to get their work done.  Usually what's available in the market is good enough.


Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky

  

21 hours ago, raymac46 said:

In my view the Buy vs Build question is now mostly a moot point for a couple of reasons.

  • A lot of Internet activity has migrated to laptops, tablets and smartphones and it is almost impossible to build these things.
  • The only thing you want to build now is a beefy desktop capable of gaming at a reasonable level, or something to support multiple monitors (or both.) In the majority of situations the person who wants this type of rig is savvy enough to build it. Building is pretty easy these days anyway.
  • Even if you want a basic desktop, it's an easy enough job - so it's probably better to build rather than get a crummy cheap box with an external power supply.

The one exception I can think of is buy a solid off lease commercial desktop and you can upgrade it a bit with a graphics card and maybe a better power supply. That is partially a building exercise.

 

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10 minutes ago, goretsky said:

Hello,

 

One thing about laptops, tablets and smartphones is that as the devices have become thinner, the manufacturers have moved to non-user serviceable models which are essentially laminated together.  Not particularly easy to repair when you need specialized tools like digitally-controlled heating plates to soften glue without damaging batteries or circuitry.  There is some slim possibility this will change in the future due to right to repair laws being enacted.

 

One thing about desktops is that building them can be fun. 

 

I hope "right to repair" includes "right to replace battery". My ancient (3.5 years old and thrice superseded) is still perfectly serviceable for me but the battery is down to ~70% of when it was new. It also bothers me that so much good gear is discarded just because of fashion or Shiny New Stuff syndrome.

 

I do enjoy building PCs; my last one is 6th Gen Intel so not so new but perfectly adequate for me. My daily driver, also self-built, is a 12 year old Core2Duo (with SSD, RAM, and disk upgrades) that still performs admirably for basic tasks of internet, email, music, and video. I use the newer one for music production and video recoding etc.; it's way faster for demanding tasks.

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I would like to build a new desktop for fun, but given I have three of them and each one is more or less serviceable, it would be like bringing coal to Newcastle. My main desktop is a 2nd generation i5 that has been upgraded extensively and I just replaced its power supply (again.) The other two machines run Linux and there's no need to build anything new as I don't use them for gaming.

I built my last machine in late 2013 because I started out to upgrade an old PC that belonged to my late parents. Turned out the case was horrible so in the end I just built a whole new desktop. It's a 2nd gen Bulldozer based design but it is plenty good enough for basic tasks.

Desktops are mostly for gamers, power users and old folks these days. My daughter and SIL have laptops and iPads and iPhones. All the working stiffs seem to be using mobile technology of some sort Nowadays. Josh could likely tell us more about workplace machines.

As far as laptops go, they are far less durable than desktops. I don't worry too much about battery life because I lead a mostly plugged in existence. I do have a fairly new ASUS Vivobook that is cheap, fast and powerful. My traveling laptop isn't going anywhere soon, but if it does no worries - it's built like a tank (Thinkpad  T430.)

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I seem to be spending all of the money I'm saving from not drinking beer while in lockdown, on computer stuff.  I have three desktops, a couple of laptops, a Surface Pro 3 and 4 and several tablets.  I just replaced the MB in my Linux desktop, which is a Ryzen 3200 with a 480 gb WD Blue M.2 SSD and 16gb DDR4, with one with 2nd gen USB 3.1 ports.   I'm expecting my 65" 4K monitor to  arrive Tuesday, to replace one of the 40" ones.  When it comes to laptops, I love buying 2nd hand corporate discards.  They always remove the HDDs and therefore sell cheap because they are "non working".  My latest is an HP Envy X360 touch screen with an Intel  i7 CPU.  It's  called a "convertible" because the screen folds backwards to use as a tablet.  I got it for $350 including shipping.  All you need to do is install whatever Windows version they came with, and they'll activate without even having a "key".  Then use "Media Creation Tool" to upgrade to the latest Win 10.  Though I didn't  even have to do that with the HP Envy 'cause it stll  had its SDD.

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Hello,

 

I hope so, too, @sunrat.  I was speaking with someone who works for a laptop manufacturer the other day, and he was explaining how they much preferred internal batteries because of the complexity in engineering replaceable batteries (casings, latching systems and connectors rated for thousands of insertions, increase in device volume, and so forth), and I can understand their point of view, but from my point of view as a consumer, I would much rather have a device that was 1-2 mm thicker and had easily-swapable parts like batteries.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

 

  

18 hours ago, sunrat said:

 

I hope "right to repair" includes "right to replace battery". My ancient (3.5 years old and thrice superseded) is still perfectly serviceable for me but the battery is down to ~70% of when it was new. It also bothers me that so much good gear is discarded just because of fashion or Shiny New Stuff syndrome.

 

I do enjoy building PCs; my last one is 6th Gen Intel so not so new but perfectly adequate for me. My daily driver, also self-built, is a 12 year old Core2Duo (with SSD, RAM, and disk upgrades) that still performs admirably for basic tasks of internet, email, music, and video. I use the newer one for music production and video recoding etc.; it's way faster for demanding tasks.

 

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I prefer a replaceable battery as well but as I said my laptops are quasi desktops. As long as the wifi works I am happy. I replaced a Lenovo Flex2 with the Vivobook because its wifi kept crashing with Windows 10. Now it is running Linux and no wifi problems at all. 

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The batteries in newer laptops are usually replaceable but just not as easy as they use to be.  Apple and MS products being the exceptions.  I replaced the battery in a MS Surface Pro 3 but only because the screen was shattered anyway.  So further damaging it didn't matter.  I've heard of people being able to remove the screen from Surface tablets without damage, but it is beyond most people's ability.  My HP Envy X360's battery is internal and you have to disassemble the laptop to change it, but it isn't that difficult for something that is only done occasionally.  I prefer that to having a bulky battery in an otherwise light laptop.

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Building your own pc always gives you better bang for your buck. Plus you can tailor the build to suit your particular needs. It is a simple mechanical process and is well within the capabilities of most folk. Building a linux rig is slightly more demanding in that you may need to do some research on component compatability if using some specialist hardware. These days however building a linux rig with main stream components should present no problems.

Buying secondhand corporate pc's for general household use apart from demanding gaming is an excellent way to save money on a pc purchase. Many pc's and laptops even ten year old ones are certainly powerful enough for most general household usage, surfing  the web, watching videos, playing/streaming music,printing,letter writting ect, they may apeare slow to pc enthusiasts but most normal folk would find using them acceptable.

 

😎

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In my time with PC desktops I have:

  • Purchased consumer grade machines and used them with minor upgrades.
  • Purchased used corporate grade machines and ran them as is.
  • Purchased new a clone maker machine and upgraded it over the years.
  • Purchased a new corporate grade machine and upgraded as needed to play games and speed things up.
  • Built a new machine from scratch.

Buying corporate grade and upgrading is a good way to go as long as you don't run into proprietary components like motherboards and PSUs.

Building yourself is the most fun.

Most parts are somewhat Linux friendly these days. AMD used to be a nightmare but now they are excellent if you stay back a bit from leading edge. Wifi was horrible in the past but now just about everything works - even Broadcom.

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1 hour ago, raymac46 said:

...

Buying corporate grade and upgrading is a good way to go as long as you don't run into proprietary components like motherboards and PSUs.

...

I would add this caviat to buying corporate, make sure there are no "locks" in place.  You can always get around Window's lock by reinstalling the OS, but "boot" or "bios" locks on modern devices are next to impossible to remove.

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Personally I have not had any problems with BIOS passwords on commercial machines because I buy from a local company that specializes in reselling off-lease laptops and desktops. Maybe if you buy from eBay or Craigslist it would possibly happen to you.

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20 minutes ago, raymac46 said:

Personally I have not had any problems with BIOS passwords on commercial machines because I buy from a local company that specializes in reselling off-lease laptops and desktops. Maybe if you buy from eBay or Craigslist it would possibly happen to you.

I don't have a local co, so, yes I buy mostly on eBay and occsioanlly from Craigs.  Craigslist is no problem because I can "check before buying".  But I have run into the bios problem when buying from eBay.  But eBay's buyer's protection is pretty good and the seller sent me not one, but two, replacements.  So I wound up with three laptops for $60.  Two of them did have their BIOS locked but the only harm was not being able to update the BIOS or enable virtualization.  Could still  sell them cheap to someone who  didn't care.  Still had the third one in good condition that I was able to make into a  Karaoke Machine.

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  • 1 year later...

 I've bought my last 2 home gaming rigs from Cyberpowerpc.com and about 11 PC's/laptops  for work. I've only had one dud, returned it and they promptly sent a new one that worked.

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I'm all over the place with mine:

 

- Windows Laptop - PCSpecialist custom build

- Macbooks - Apple

- Desktop PC - Dell + some DIY upgrades.

 

I bought a tower last year on the basis that I could "upgrade it", and I've stuck a few upgrades in for SSD capacity etc, but I didn't realise how compact the Dell tower systems are these days. Definitely useful for moving and saving space, but not very much space for more major upgrades, and the airflow and temps are not great.

 

Next year I'm planning on building from scratch myself - with the forlorn hope that chip prices and GPUs will be cheaper at some point...

 

 

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I built a desktop for Linux a few years ago, so I expected to build a new Windows system eventually. However, when my old Acer Veriton Sandy Bridge PC would not receive updates for Windows any longer, I had to act. With the current graphics card shortage, I figured I would be better off to go prebuilt.

I opted for Dell as well. I got a relatively detuned 11th gen Intel i7 and it runs cool and quiet in the Dell compact case. I specd out a larger SSD and HDD so I have plenty of capacity. I am not a hardcore gamer nor do I store a lot of movies. It's pretty easy to slap in another SSD if needed. My graphics card is an old school RTX 2060 but it's plenty beefy enough for my needs.

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Hello,

I very much prefer to build my own desktop computers, because I get exactly what I want, however, that is time and labor intensive, and also more expensive due to the current crop of supply-chain issues, so it remains very much a hobbyist proposition.

For work, it makes much more sense to buy pre-built with as long of a  warranty that you will need to cover the machine's planned lifecycle.  This is particularly more relevant now since the tier-one vendors (Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo...) are in a better position to get parts than individuals through their long-term contracts.  It may also make sense to get on-site service with the warranty purchase as well.  That way the machine does not sit in a depot awaiting parts--it remains on site at possibly partially usable until the service tech shows up.

 

In some cases, it may make more sense to get a pre-built gaming PC, too, simply due to the lack of availability of higher-end gaming video cards.  I went the DIY route for my current desktop PC, and it took 406 days for me to get the video card I wanted.

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

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  • 3 months later...
Guest Mauser

I built my own Desktop computer while Laptops I usually buy one from ACER. I find the computers I build run better. This is my 4th computer that I have built.

System:    Kernel: 5.10.0-13-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 10.2.1
           parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-5.10.0-13-amd64
           root=UUID=<filter> ro quiet splash
           Desktop: Xfce 4.16.0 tk: Gtk 3.24.24 info: xfce4-panel wm: Compiz 0.8.18 vt: 7
           dm: LightDM 1.26.0 Distro: MX-21_x64 Wildflower October 20  2021
           base: Debian GNU/Linux 11 (bullseye)
Machine:   Type: Desktop Mobo: Gigabyte model: B450 AORUS ELITE serial: <filter>
           UEFI: American Megatrends LLC. v: F64a date: 02/17/2022
CPU:       Info: 8-Core model: AMD Ryzen 7 2700X bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Zen+
           family: 17 (23) model-id: 8 stepping: 2 microcode: 800820D cache: L2: 4 MiB
           flags: avx avx2 lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm
           bogomips: 118173
           Speed: 2251 MHz min/max: 2200/3700 MHz boost: enabled Core speeds (MHz): 1: 2251
           2: 2050 3: 2168 4: 2144 5: 2185 6: 2181 7: 1993 8: 2195 9: 2161 10: 2123 11: 2093
           12: 2182 13: 2186 14: 2183 15: 2460 16: 1930
           Vulnerabilities: Type: itlb_multihit status: Not affected
           Type: l1tf status: Not affected
           Type: mds status: Not affected
           Type: meltdown status: Not affected
           Type: spec_store_bypass
           mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl and seccomp
           Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
           Type: spectre_v2
           mitigation: Retpolines, IBPB: conditional, STIBP: disabled, RSB filling
           Type: srbds status: Not affected
           Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
Graphics:  Device-1: AMD Baffin [Radeon RX 550 640SP / RX 560/560X] vendor: XFX Pine
           driver: amdgpu v: kernel bus-ID: 07:00.0 chip-ID: 1002:67ff class-ID: 0300
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.11 compositor: compiz v: 0.8.18 driver:
           loaded: amdgpu display-ID: :0.0 screens: 1
           Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1920x1080 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 508x285mm (20.0x11.2")
           s-diag: 582mm (22.9")
           Monitor-1: DVI-D-0 res: 1920x1080 hz: 60 dpi: 82 size: 598x336mm (23.5x13.2")
           diag: 686mm (27")
           OpenGL:
           renderer: Radeon RX 550 Series (POLARIS11 DRM 3.40.0 5.10.0-13-amd64 LLVM 11.0.1)
           v: 4.6 Mesa 20.3.5 direct render: Yes
Audio:     Device-1: AMD Baffin HDMI/DP Audio [Radeon RX 550 640SP / RX 560/560X]
           vendor: XFX Pine driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 07:00.1 chip-ID: 1002:aae0
           class-ID: 0403
           Device-2: AMD Family 17h HD Audio vendor: Gigabyte driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel
           bus-ID: 09:00.3 chip-ID: 1022:1457 class-ID: 0403
           Sound Server-1: ALSA v: k5.10.0-13-amd64 running: yes
           Sound Server-2: PulseAudio v: 14.2 running: yes
Network:   Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet vendor: Gigabyte
           driver: r8169 v: kernel port: f000 bus-ID: 03:00.0 chip-ID: 10ec:8168 class-ID: 0200
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
           IF-ID-1: wgpia0 state: unknown speed: N/A duplex: N/A mac: N/A
Drives:    Local Storage: total: 7.74 TiB used: 5.85 TiB (75.6%)
           SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required.
           ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 maj-min: 259:0 model: PCIe SSD size: 476.94 GiB block-size:
           physical: 512 B logical: 512 B speed: 31.6 Gb/s lanes: 4 type: SSD serial: <filter>
           rev: ECFM22.9 temp: 44.9 C scheme: GPT
           ID-2: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: HGST (Hitachi) model: HUS728T8TALE6L4
           size: 7.28 TiB block-size: physical: 4096 B logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s type: HDD
           rpm: 7200 serial: <filter> rev: W414 scheme: GPT
Partition: ID-1: / raw-size: 475.67 GiB size: 467.14 GiB (98.21%) used: 16.33 GiB (3.5%)
           fs: ext4 dev: /dev/dm-0 maj-min: 253:0 mapped: root.fsm
           ID-2: /boot raw-size: 1024 MiB size: 973.4 MiB (95.06%) used: 433.6 MiB (44.5%)
           fs: ext4 dev: /dev/nvme0n1p1 maj-min: 259:1
           ID-3: /boot/efi raw-size: 256 MiB size: 252 MiB (98.46%) used: 274 KiB (0.1%)
           fs: vfat dev: /dev/nvme0n1p2 maj-min: 259:2
           ID-4: /home raw-size: 7.25 TiB size: 7.2 TiB (99.20%) used: 5.84 TiB (81.1%) fs: ext4
           dev: /dev/dm-1 maj-min: 253:1 mapped: 1.home.fsm
Swap:      Kernel: swappiness: 15 (default 60) cache-pressure: 100 (default)
           ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 24.01 GiB used: 1.5 MiB (0.0%) priority: -2
           dev: /dev/dm-2 maj-min: 253:2 mapped: swap
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 42.1 C mobo: 16.8 C gpu: amdgpu temp: 50.0 C
           Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A gpu: amdgpu fan: 203
Repos:     Packages: 2462 note: see --pkg apt: 2454 lib: 1305 flatpak: 8
           No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-stable-updates.list
           1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates main non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian.list
           1: deb http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye main non-free
           2: deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security main non-free
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-chrome.list
           1: deb [arch=amd64] https://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable main
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/mx.list
           1: deb http://mirrors.rit.edu/mxlinux/mx-packages/mx/repo/ bullseye main non-free
Info:      Processes: 382 Uptime: 1d 5h 27m wakeups: 1 Memory: 23.47 GiB used: 3.65 GiB (15.5%)
           Init: SysVinit v: 2.96 runlevel: 5 default: 5 tool: systemctl Compilers: gcc: 10.2.1
           alt: 10 Shell: Bash v: 5.1.4 running-in: quick-system-info-mx
           inxi: 3.3.06
Boot Mode: UEFI


 
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  • 1 month later...

i stopped DIY building long ago as it didn't make cost sense, but if you value getting the hands experience of putting things together ...

Though I would urge buying all parts from one place, either in-store or online , so that the seller can assist in having  all your parts are compatible and in alignment.

 

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abarbarian

Building your own is dead easy these days as you have sites that will check out parts and tell you if they incompatible.

Hardest part is raising the cash to buy the parts.

Once you have the parts assembly should only take a couple of hours. Unpacking will probably take twice as long.

 

https://pcbuilder.net/

 

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/

 

😎

 

I always build my own computers and every time it has been cheaper than buying ready made. As far as I can tell that is still the case.

 

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If you don't need discrete graphics it certainly makes sense to DIY. And it would appear that graphics cards are getting more reasonable all the time.

That said, for Linux you can just pick up a used commercial desktop if you need one.

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Guest Mauser
7 hours ago, abarbarian said:

Building your own is dead easy these days as you have sites that will check out parts and tell you if they incompatible.

Hardest part is raising the cash to buy the parts.

Once you have the parts assembly should only take a couple of hours. Unpacking will probably take twice as long.

 

https://pcbuilder.net/

 

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/

 

😎

 

I always build my own computers and every time it has been cheaper than buying ready made. As far as I can tell that is still the case.

 

I agree with you on the compatibility part but I find building a computer is more difficult these days because they make things tighter and the larger coolers make it more difficult to build. The other issue finding good quality parts since almost everything these days are made in the same place where they don't understand what good quality is what quality control is.  Over clocking is also more difficult due to the increased complexity of CPU's. I find the most difficult part of building your own computer is making the power connections on the motherboard. Why do hardware manufactures insist on putting the power switch connections on the motherboard in the most cramped difficult of location as possible on the motherboard? 

 

Please forgive me for any grammer and spelling errors because developers have yet to come out with a Linux spelling checker that actually works correctly since my teachers didn't feel that spelling is important except for one teacher that could do only so much in the short amount of time.

 

___

 

 

NOTE: Comment/Image removed by Admin (not appropriate content/image; political, false information, conspiracy talk) ~vtel57 @ 050222:1513hrs EDT

 

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securitybreach

I have been building desktops for many years now. My main machine has went through like 5 processors, 4 motherboards, 6x video cards, 3 cases, etc. etc. The most difficult part is the cable management (can hide most cables on the back of the board) and plugging in the power/hdd/reboot/ headers (some come with an adapter so you dont have to plug the tiny ones in).

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Guest Mauser
5 minutes ago, securitybreach said:

I have been building desktops for many years now. My main machine has went through like 5 processors, 4 motherboards, 6x video cards, 3 cases, etc. etc. The most difficult part is the cable management (can hide most cables on the back of the board) and plugging in the power/hdd/reboot/ headers (some come with an adapter so you dont have to plug the tiny ones in).

Yeah, that can be an issue at varying degrees. Unfortionately I was never able to find that adapter. It should me mandatory for that adapter to be included with the motherboard. I hate engineers! All the engineers I have met in my travels with the exception of three were blithering idiots! One engineered agreed with me.

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