jbredmound Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 I actually broke off my moring browse to get this up. This is the kind of analysis that makes we "paranoid about open source" folks think, "OK, maybe I do need to look at Apple". Anyway, I respect Dvorak, although I know a lot of people don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prelude76 Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 isn't Dvorak that guy who wanted to change the "ASDF" keyboard to a new different better keyboard? geez, i mean, ok, it MIGHT be a better layout, but when you have a billion people that memorized the ASDF keyboard, it's a bit too late to change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 jbredmound, I haven't really paid a lot of attention to this mainly because it just smells of deals and lots of lawyer fees. The article is interesting and Dvorák lays it out pretty convincingly.Linux users will continue using Linux, even if they have to upload their new code to remote servers in some off-shore software haven, until it is pried from their cold hands. A lot more Linux users might get involved updating or writing new software. Personally, I have always thought of Apple and Microsoft as "pay our high prices or shove it" types of companies. I'm not talking about the merits of their products, just their corporate positions. (rant off mode)Thanks for the article, it broke my morning browse, too. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peachy Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 isn't Dvorak that guy who wanted to change the "ASDF" keyboard to a new different better keyboard? geez, i mean, ok, it MIGHT be a better layout, but when you have a billion people that memorized the ASDF keyboard, it's a bit too late to change it.Same name, different guy. They even named the keyboard after this guy. Also, not to be confused with the Czech composer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teacher Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 A bit late to change it? But that was before you were even born young pup! This is a brief history of the creation of the Dvorak keyboard. I always wished there had been a switch. The first class I taught was in a prison with manual typewriters. I understand from then why not a Dvorak keyboard, but today it does not make sense to still go with the qwerty layout. Since I type about 100 on a good day and 80 on a bad day, I doubt I could switch at this point in time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zox Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 If Apple switch to Intel instead of IBM/Motorola chips, only then I would trust Dvorak to have something meaningful up his sleeves.Until then, ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prelude76 Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 A bit late to change it? But that was before you were even born young pup! This is a brief history of the creation of the Dvorak keyboard. I always wished there had been a switch. The first class I taught was in a prison with manual typewriters. I understand from then why not a Dvorak keyboard, but today it does not make sense to still go with the qwerty layout. Since I type about 100 on a good day and 80 on a bad day, I doubt I could switch at this point in time! like I said, i'm sure it's better. see, perfect example. word BETTER. It's all on the LEFT hand "BETTER". hehe.. QWERTY style is really poor for ergonomics and doesnt make too much sense. but since you come from a country that still refuses to switch to the metric system, relying instead on measurements based on a dead king's feet, i doubt there will be a switch over to Dvorak style any time soon. hehe.. take THAT for calling me a pup... but whats worse than a Metric Europe, or an Imperial US is us poor kids in Canada. in order to survive, we pretty much have to know both most of time. long distances we use km, short distances we use feet, some TV stations go by celcius, others only use Fahrenheint. for weather, we mention ceiling height in feet, and pressure in kPa. at work, car part designs are all in mm but we convert everything to inches because our rulers are in inches only. and when i go to cook and have a measuring cup with mL on one side and CUP measurement on other and recipe calls for 8 ounces of something, i go insane!!! have to carry a friggin calculator most of time! i personally would not be able to handle a DVORAK switch, but if they teach it to kids and make it STICK, I'd say go for it. but teaching kids metric and throwing them into a mostly imperial world is plain evil. but yeah, i'm going a bit off topic, since this isnt even the right DVORAK! hehehe.. sorryit was a really interesting article, jbredmound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThunderRiver Posted June 4, 2003 Share Posted June 4, 2003 Linux is not necessarily at risk. Up to this point, SCO hasn't provided any sorts of compelling public evidences showning that Linux is truly copying codes off UNIX.. nonetheless, SCO has to worry about Novell bitings its tail over the "copyright" issue.. and with the talk over IBM buying SCO surely will make SCO shuts its mouth once for all in the near future. I am optimistic about Linux.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greengeek Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Another optimistic penguin, even if I have to recompile my own kernel and write my own programs I'm staying with Linux whatever happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxdude32 Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Dvorak is a good writer, there is no doubt. But, like all good writers (at least commercially), he's good at making up a story where there really isn't one. The Linux community isn't scoffing at the suit because they're asleep, they're scoffing at because the guys in the know believe SCO doesn't have a leg to stand on.The Open Source Initiative has a position paper on the suit and perhaps Dvorak would do well to read it before blowing steam. And so any of us who cares about this issue. It's here.What's particularly interesting is that SCO seems to lack even a rudimentary understanding of UNIX history, or if they do, then they're deliberately lying in an attempt to extort money from IBM. Dvorak misses that not only is there prior art showing that Unix (and even Linux) did these things before IBM started contributing to Linux, but there was a previous lawsuit by another Unix company in 1992-93 that sued Berkeley Software Distribution and it failed. It was settled out of court without cash exchanging hands after a judge refused to allow an injunction against BSD on the grounds that the Unix company would probably lose. In the end, I think 2-3 lines of codes were proprietary which BSD removed.Regarding keyboards, Dvorak once wrote an article in PC Magazine about the CAPS LOCK key and how it should be removed. What a waste of printing space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbredmound Posted June 6, 2003 Author Share Posted June 6, 2003 The last thing that I am is a programmer, but I do have a questions about this article.What if you wrote a piece of code, and it was incorporated. It turns out to be proprietary. I think you could get off the hook by submitting your notes, et al, but the code would still either have to come out, or be paid for.I know that this is being watched for on the Unix side, but is someone minding the store with Linux? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlinecomputers Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 I know that this is being watched for on the Unix side, but is someone minding the store with Linux?No one offically. It is assumed that the bigger distros take great care to try and prevent that. Red Hat for example refuses to put Nvidia drivers into its distros because the drivers are not open source. They are free to use but not OSS.One thing in Linux's favor is that copyrights and patents must be defended or else they loose them. Wait to long to defend them and you will lose. If real code that belongs to SCO is found in linux the arqument can be made that it was added openly, records can be shown when it was added and anyone, including SCO can examine it. So why are they crying now? It is a bit too late. It's not like this is done in secret. If they didn't check the code before now that is not the Linux community's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peachy Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 I know that this is being watched for on the Unix side, but is someone minding the store with Linux?We can only trust that it is happening for specific Linux applications. Remember there is Linux (the kernel/OS) and there is applications that compile and run in Linux. The Linux kernel is developed and then peer reviewed by Linus Torvalds and 4 or 5 other programmers. They are the ones that would have to ensure that the kernel does not contain proprietary code from another source. As for Linux apps, some distro makers will not include in their distro things they haven't paid a licence for. You can read this essay to get some perspective on the Linux side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicDragon Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 This is a very interesting case. I can't wait to see what happens. I think SCO has very little to go on. Even if they do have evidence that the same code was found in each, how can they prove that it was copied?As i understand it, they do have evidence, but you have to sign a non-disclosure agreement to see it. But, i think Linus is compileing a team of linux/unix professionals to examine the two codes and determine whether it was copied or not. (The only one i know on the team is Chris Dibonna (forgive the spelling). I am not sure if they are going to have to sign the agreement or not though.I'm not a programmer, but even if the code was very similar, aren't there only so many ways to program things? Isn't it possible that two different programmers came up with similar code to preform the same task?Another thing that seems very strange to me in this case is that (i think) they first complaint/report they filed was full of factual errors about UNIX, which linuxdude32 pointed out.I haven't gotten a chance to read the posed articles yet, so i'm sorry if i'm being redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henderrob Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 SCO is part of the Micro$oft conspiracy of FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) Which is part of the larger global domination by Bill Gates conspiracy. HeHe!Dvorak is writing to sell copy or create urgency to read his article, which is what columnists do. I see where he's extrapulated his thesis to ridiculous degrees. I think Linux will live a to see another day, especially in Europe and the developing world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbredmound Posted June 8, 2003 Author Share Posted June 8, 2003 I think Linux will live a to see another day, especially in Europe and the developing world.What does photography have to do with all this?Are they using Linux to develop film now?Ohhhhh....never mind...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicDragon Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 I think Linux will live a to see another dayI agree. The way i see it is even if SCO does win, IBM will probably have to pay a big sum of money and a few lines of Linux code will be changed or removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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