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Windows 10 Recall


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#1 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 05:02 PM

So... what do you all think of the Windows 10 recall

and

what about no longer being able to do a clean Windows 10 install.

good one, microsoft!
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#2 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 05:44 PM

Don't know anything about it. I did not allow the upgrade to Win 10 on my Win 7 system, which I think broke my Windows Update completely. I don't care, though. I don't even access the Internet with Windows so why bother with slow, bloated updates?

#3 OFFLINE   ebrke

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 09:00 PM

Widows update on win7 is working on my mother's laptop, although I notice she did stop getting notification in the system tray on patch Tuesday. Maybe that's the reason. I have always had win update set to notify only, not download.
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#4 OFFLINE   crp

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 09:12 PM

They didn't do a recall, just stopped giving access to a way of downloading an ISO that could be used to do a clean install .
i think i know why. I'm on the fasttrack and had no major issues with the last beta except for an annoying command window about disk snapshot.
Yet when the production update came along - my video driver no longer functioned as fully, including degradation in resolution quality.
something went slightly amiss. wouldn't be surprised to see the ISO back in play by end of month.
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. ~C. S. Lewis

#5 OFFLINE   Robert

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 12:04 AM

Even Windows 7 updates are breaking things now, like my scanner.  I found an HP update that got it running again, but still, MS is out of their minds with these large, time consuming updates that take over the computer without warning, and break software.  Sometimes I need something done fast but can't because MS has hijacked the computer for 20 minutes that were critical to me.

The only way to get work done is to disconnect from ethernet and dedicate computers to hardware (like scanners) or critical software, and never, ever update the OS.

Yesterday Microsoft wasted 2-3 hours of my time I spent getting things running again after Windows 7 did yet another huge update. Part of that time was spent looking for Mac software so I could swap computers, but sadly it was not available.  I won't be buying any Windows only office hardware again.

#6 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 02:09 AM

Yes, I cannot believe that a company the size of MS would have servers that are so sloooowwwwww. I feel my beard growing while waiting for updates. Why is that?

#7 OFFLINE   crp

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 10:25 PM

http://www.geekwire....on-a-minor-bug/
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. ~C. S. Lewis

#8 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:49 AM

Ummmkay.

#9 OFFLINE   crp

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 11:56 AM

View PostV.T. Eric Layton, on 25 November 2015 - 02:09 AM, said:

Yes, I cannot believe that a company the size of MS would have servers that are so sloooowwwwww. I feel my beard growing while waiting for updates. Why is that?
Often that is due to a matter of trust.
MSFT is well aware of patches problems and how some people have problems with various updates. So when something depends on something already being there it will actually go check instead of trusting the Update reporting logs on the system.
and linux users (which include me)- don't get smug. this is the direction the distros are taking and one of the major reasons for the fight over init/systemd .
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. ~C. S. Lewis

#10 OFFLINE   zlim

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 12:35 PM

Elizabeth, the update notification stopped working on our computers several months ago. It isn't a major problem for me because I'll read and realize it is Patch Tuesday. I usually patch flash and IE and then wait for several days to see what patches are causing problems before I patch anything further.

Windows 7 update continues to work. I run GWX Control Panel so I do not get Win 10 downloaded behind my back and then see the dreaded "your computer is ready to be updated to 10". I have no intention of updating to 10 and when the update because an important or recommended update in January 2016, I will look over the updates closely and hide that one. I suspect MS will unhide it and offer each month until the free period ends.

Eric the update servers can be very slow at times. When I updated my husband's netbook, I waited 45 minutes before anything happened. I saw 0% of 0 kb for 5 updates I had selected for 45 minutes. I use another computer and just look at the one updating from time to time. Another reason I am glad I have more than 1 computer and I don't dual boot. I have a computer to use while the other one works on getting an update.
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#11 OFFLINE   ebrke

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:32 PM

Quote

Windows 7 update continues to work. I run GWX Control Panel so I do not get Win 10 downloaded behind my back and then see the dreaded "your computer is ready to be updated to 10".
I've never had win 10 downloaded/offered on my mother's laptop, Liz. It's always been set to "Notify Only" in Win Update and I thought maybe that was the reason. Also, it's nearly always running with a limited user account.
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#12 OFFLINE   zlim

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 06:06 PM

Wait until January. That's when MS moves the Win 10 update from Optional to Recommended or Important. I'm not sure what other changes they will make. I just don't trust MS.

I have my computers set for Check for Updates but let me choose whether to download and install them.
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#13 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 11:39 PM

the win 10 nag icon on 1 of my win 7 machines is now 1/4 of full screen!

it's huge! it's obnoxious! it's microsoft!

Edited by Temmu, 27 November 2015 - 11:39 PM.

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#14 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 11:47 PM

View PostTemmu, on 27 November 2015 - 11:39 PM, said:

the win 10 nag icon on 1 of my win 7 machines is now 1/4 of full screen!

it's huge! it's obnoxious! it's microsoft!

You can hide the update that starts the upgrade process and you won't ever get upgraded. Google for it. I don't remember the KB# off the top of my head.

Oh... here you go --> http://www.howtogeek...-automatically/

#15 OFFLINE   goretsky

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 02:35 AM

Hello,

Information on managing the Get Windows 10 app can be found in the following Microsoft knowledgebase article:  https://support.micr...n-us/kb/3080351

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky
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(previously Networking, Windows, Windows for Devices and IT)
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#16 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 10:01 AM

I've upgraded a Windows 7 desktop and an 8.1 Windows laptop to Windows 10 and I like it. I had trouble with Bitdefender Internet Security and had to upgrade to the latest version to get Windows 10 compatibility. That was the only glitch in either upgrade.
Of course I installed Classic Shell on both machines to get a real Start Menu.
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#17 OFFLINE   zlim

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 10:49 AM

Check that the latest update has not removed some programs. CCleaner and Spybot have been mentioned as well as Cisco VPN.
Also privacy settings have been reset - check them.
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#18 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 12:27 PM

CCleaner is still there. Malware Bytes and WinPatrol still work. I don't see any problems with privacy settings. I think a lot of this is FUD, frankly. I am no Microsoft fan and don't use IE or Office or Mail apps.
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#19 OFFLINE   zlim

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 07:58 PM

Sorry not FUD.
http://forums.majorg...5/#post-1933267
note the post by DavidGP

Quote

Did notice on my desktop today that CCleaner was removed!
Just because it did not happen to you, don't assume that it isn't happening.
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#20 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 11:34 AM

The fact that it isn't happening to everyone is a sign it's not a big Microsoft conspiracy but another example of Hanlon's Razor:
Never attribute to malice that which can safely be accounted for by stupidity.
I don't see what advantage Microsoft would have in hacking CCleaner or Spybot. If they wanted to remove anything it would be Google search and AdBlock Plus.
For what it's worth my AMD Catalyst Control Center appeared to be deleted at one point, but I put it back when I updated my Crimson Edition driver. Maybe an update did that deletion. But I've had as many problems with Bitdefender messing with my system as I ever had with Microsoft.
Windows 10 in my view is a far superior choice to 8.1 and runs my train sim games better than Windows 7 did.
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#21 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 07:33 PM

I've forgotten now where exactly I found this, but here it is...

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One of the major concerns of users upgrading to Windows 10 has been Microsoft encroaching on their privacy owing to the default data collection and usage tracking features.

Microsoft has also released updates for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 users and turns out that the update has enhanced data collection even on these older operating system versions. So operating systems such as Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 are now able to collect data without the user's knowledge.

The updates released by Microsoft are kb3068708, kb3022345, kb3075249 and kb3080149, which basically "introduce the Diagnostics and Telemetry tracking service" for the older Windows versions. Moreover per Microsoft, these updates also "add telemetry points to the User Account Control (UAC) feature to collect information on elevations that come from low integrity levels."

So this basically means that once a user installs any of the above-mentioned updates, Microsoft will have the ability to collect data from your Windows 8.1 or Windows 7 PC just as it is able to on Windows 10.

For those worrying about the issue - there is a way of stopping Microsoft from collecting data. Here's how:

How to Stop Data Collection

The update KB3068708 mentions two domains which Microsoft is deploying to send the data it has collected to. These domains are:

1. vortex-win.data.microsoft.com

2. settings-win.data.microsoft.com

So to stop this process, simply add these domains to the HOSTS file and they will be blocked completely.

Alternately, the best method to avoid data tracking if the four updates have already been installed on your PC would be to delete them completely. To do this, navigate to Control Panel > View the updates installed and remove the four.

Furthermore, you can eliminate the updates easier by launching a command prompt window with admin privileges and typing in each of the following commands to remove all the four updates:

wusa /uninstall /kb:3068708 /quiet /norestart

wusa /uninstall /kb:3022345 /quiet /norestart

wusa /uninstall /kb:3075249 /quiet /norestart

wusa /uninstall /kb:3080149 /quiet /norestart

Once you have done this ensure that you "hide" the updates so that they do not reinstall once the PC has been rebooted. To hide you need to do the following:

Step 1: In the list of updates right-click the update you do not want to see.

Step 2: Opt for Hide Update.

===

Back in April, Microsoft released a non-security update for both Windows 7 and 8. This update, 3022345, created a new Windows service called the Diagnostics Tracking service. Microsoft describes this service as doing two things. First, it increases the amount of diagnostic data that the Customer Experience Improvement Program (CEIP) can collect in order to better diagnose problems. Second, it collects data for third-party applications that use the Application Insights service. Application Insights is a preview that allows app developers to track performance issues, crashes, and other problems of their applications. The Diagnostics Tracking service collects this data and sends it to Microsoft.

The update that added this service has itself been superseded at least twice with updates 3068708 and, most recently, 3080149. While this latter update was pushed out as an optional update-and hence only installs if chosen from the list of available updates-the earlier 3067808 update was deployed as a recommended update, installing automatically with the normal Windows Update settings.

Separate from this, another update, 3075249, enhanced the User Account Control (UAC) feature to enable it to collect more information from the elevation prompts.

===

For these Windows 7/8/8.1 users there are a few updates which Microsoft has been pushing through last few days.

Namely, KB3075249 and KB3080149, if installed are known to report your data back to Microsoft servers.

KB3075249 update adds telemetry points to consent.exe in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7.  The Microsoft support page gives following description for them :

KB3075249 "Update that adds telemetry points to consent.exe in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 "
http://support.micro....com/kb/3075249

KB3080149 "This update aligns down-level devices on the same UTC binary that's released in Windows 10. This update would enable all the down-level devices to receive the software updates, design updates, and additional power and performance tuning."
http://support.micro....com/kb/3080149

In simple words, both these updates, if downloaded and installed will snoop on you and report back certain data to the Microsoft servers.


Enjoy it in good health.

#22 OFFLINE   Capt.Crow

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 05:27 PM

Nice one Eric.... Well spotted....Thnx :thumbup:
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#23 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:06 AM

Eric,
here's the article you cited: http://www.techtimes...f-your-data.htm
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#24 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 08:18 AM

Thanks Goretsky for the Win 10 nag icon article, it's about time MS wrote something like that.
Thanks Zlim for the evaporating software article. (I've not upgraded to 10, not planning to, but information is always good to have.)
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#25 OFFLINE   zlim

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 12:12 PM

Look for 2 more updates downloaded Dec. 1st and 2nd. KB312336 (8.1) and KB3112343 (7) are to "smooth" the upgrade to Win 10.
Right now my four Win 7 computers have the update in optional but MS does start an update in optional and then in a few weeks move it into Important/Recommended.

If you do not intend to change from your current version of Windows, you might want to hide those updates.
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