18 replies to this topic

[Temmu]

greets, o salty linux users!

i'm now running (and posting from)
slackware 13.37 (the current version)
on a
dell latitude d610 (which is about 7 years old...)

the install was ... interesting.
i was surprised at the amount of disk and linux knowledge one had to have
in order to attempt it.
one has to partition the disk ahead of running "setup"
it reminds me of setting up arch.

also, one should not have to "startx" after boot.

o, and there's the "lilo is not configured correctly" issue i have to deal with too.
that is, at power-on or restart, win xp boots with nary a trace of a boot menu.
sigh.

i'll report back later...

[V.T. Eric Layton]

Oh, quit your whining. You could always install Ubuntu, if you need some hand-holding and coddling during your installs.

[LilBambi]

I used to always boot to run level 3. I actually prefer it and if I want to boot to the GUI, I run startx.

My logic was that the GUI could fail and I would have no fallback. That was back in the day when GUIs were a bit more flaky and some programs were too ... the combination was not so good and not being able to kill the GUI and fallback to run level 3 could be very frustrating.

I haven't had to do that for a long time. Since I started using Debian actually.

Can't you change your starting run level? Try this?

A Slackware Desktop Enhancement Guide - Configuring Slackware for a GUI Startup — Part I

[V.T. Eric Layton]

Of course, he can choose a GUI login for Slack. It's a bit blasphemous, but I won't report him.

[raymac46]

Before I ever installed Slackware I had done a number of Vector Linux installs (VL is a purty version of Slack.) Vector used the same Ncurses text based installer so I found Slack to be relatively familiar in that regard.
I never let the installer decide how to partition my disk anyway after learning how to do it myself in Vector and Slackware.
As far as those graphical installers with slide shows go, I try to avoid them if I can. They are a good source of crashes during installation. Debian has a great text installer especially if you want to use the Internet to do part of it.

Edited by raymac46, 14 July 2012 - 07:35 AM.

[V.T. Eric Layton]

I run parted from the command line and partition my disks myself; then I install. That method is not for inexperienced CLI users, though. It's very easy to make a mistake with parted.

[Temmu]

sorry for just now getting back to this:

my point is that linux in general is a mature operating system and as such,
should have an almost mindless installation available as a choice.

yes, i understand linux:
"is all about the options"
"means learning/enjoying computing again"

however, an os in this day and age should have an option to install simply.

@ eric's snide opening remark, pffft.
@ lilbambi - sure, i can fix any of that...but thx for the link!
@ raymac - no, me either - i don't let any os just willy-nilly fool with my partition table.

i hope to hear from you all about the idea of choice with an os install

[V.T. Eric Layton]

Temmu, on 17 July 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

@ eric's snide opening remark, pffft.

i hope to hear from you all about the idea of choice with an os install

Ah... but you have choice. You can choose to NOT install distributions that you don't find to be friendly enough for you.

[LilBambi]

That's why there are so many Linux distros. Just stick with one that is touted to be 'user friendly'; such as Ubuntu.

Not all Linux distros have to be 'user friendly'. That's the choice of the type of distro it is. One could never really call Gento a 'user friendly' distro. But it doesn't make it any less of a distro. Quite to the contrary.

I like Debian because it's stable, you can install most anything on it, and it is supported by most hardware; even older hardware in some cases, which is what I run.

So, if you want 'user friendly' pick one that is built for that purpose and you will be much happier. But, even with 'user friendly' distros, you will still have some learning curve at least on hardware, or need to get into a forum like BATL to help get over the humps if you are not a heavy Linux user with a lot of experience under your belt or at least are an extremely good researcher.

I know what you are saying but Linux is what it is on the good graces of the wonderful developers. And man do they have a lot of good graces!

[V.T. Eric Layton]

Well, we all know that Temmu's no dummy, and he knows his way around Linux, too. I think his point is that he'd like all distributions to offer a simpler method for installation. Personally, I don't think Slackware's installation is difficult at all, but I'm jaded by having installed it many, many times. The first Linux I ever installed was Ubuntu. It wasn't scary at all. The first time I tried to install Debian, I nearly pee'd my pants. It was scary. It is what it is, though. Some are easy (new user friendly, you might say) and others are nightmares to install (Gentoo). Ain't it great, though? Love the diversity.

[raymac46]

I've done lots of installations as well, but frankly the fewer I have to do now the better I like it. I'm going to stick with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS variants for a while.  Xubuntu 12.04 LTS gives me a modern enough kernel that the GMA 500 video in my Dell Mini 12 works great. Linux Mint 13 gives me LTS plus the choice of Mate for older video hardware or Cinnamon for 3D supported video. If I didn't want LTS my choice would be Mageia 2.0 KDE which I think is terrific.

[zlim]

Quote

my point is that linux in general is a mature operating system and as such,
should have an almost mindless installation available as a choice.

I'll rebut  that. Windows is a mature operating system too. (I'm neither an MS nor a linux fangirl.   I run both). I read lots of posts at other forums where people wiped the hd, did a clean install of usually XP or 7 and now various things don't work. We explain that chipset drivers have to be installed  to get things working. So Windows too isn't always a mindless installation choice.

IMHO, the best way is to purchase a computer with the OS you want, (I know this is not possible in lots of cases) then grab all the drivers and archive them. If you choose to do a clean installation, grab the driver archive and point the device manager to the archive to remove all the Xs and ?s.

[Temmu]

@ eric, true - plenty of 1st time user friendly distros out there, especially ubuntu.
and i could choose that, but did not (on this go around)
(i chose slack due to it's purported light-weight os, and its current  kernel. )

@ lilbambi - i loves me some debian! (and, see last sentence, below   )

@ raymac - i have ubuntu 8 on... something - i think it's my 8 yr old hp tower... and i like mint too, formerly on my d610

@ zlim - ah! the truth will out - indeed win xp, 7, prolly requires more drivers to be installed manually than does linux.
i know "we" in linux also often fight with wireless cards, sometimes video, and to a lesser extent, printing - but
wireless sux in windows too, as does win 7 printing.

instead of continued diversification, has anyone thought about the idea of bringing all these great linux os developers back together
and with all that intellectual horse power, creating an unimaginably great (but much smaller) set of distros?

[V.T. Eric Layton]

Hmm... I'm not sure I'd be a fan of that, Temmu. I'm one of those who think the diversity is the life blood of GNU/Linux and Open Source. I think standardization would lead to a poorer product.

[sunrat]

I'm with Eric there, Temmu. If something really great, like apt for example, is developed by one distro then many others will adopt it. The beauty of open source is that they can. The best bits usually become the most popular.

[raymac46]

I'm probably going to sound like an Arch-er here but sometimes the KISS principle is the best one - especially when it comes to something as vital as a good install.
When you make something really "user-friendly" sometimes you make it more complex than it needs to be from the machine's standpoint. A good example is the LM13 installer where the glitzy slide show causes a crash midway through and borks everything.
A Debian net install has a lot of steps you have to get right but in the end it's very robust and error free.

Edited by raymac46, 20 July 2012 - 10:33 AM.

[sunrat]

raymac46, on 20 July 2012 - 07:13 AM, said:

A Debian net install has a lot of steps you have to get right but in the end it's very robust and error free.

I'm with you there. Netinstall is my favourite way of setting up a nice lean Debian, and it is really quite simple. I've gotten lazier over the years and mainly just use the aptosid light CD these days. You can install it and have a desktop booted in about 10 minutes.

[Temmu]

but diversity = dilution
is dilution = solution?.
no!

... could you imagine taking debian's stability and runs-on-any-micro-to-mainframe hardware compatibility and combining that with something like arch or slack for lightness of weight, with apt, and... my o my it would be great.
i know pclinuxos is kinda like that, but:

i'm talking about combining the collective genius (people) of all the major distros into one group and creating the ultimate superior distro.

[V.T. Eric Layton]

There are thousands of bird species. No two snowflakes are alike. Everyone has a unique set of finger prints. Wouldn't the world be a dull place if we standardized all that. We could always go back to having just one operating system... MS WIndows.