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systemd and Arch Linux

systemd udev-deprecated arch linux

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#1 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 06:58 PM

Well, I'll tell you folks like it is...

Recently, Arch made some major changes in how their distribution handles hardware management. Currently, they are simultaneously offering udev (now within the new systemd-tools package) and systemd in the Core repos. For those of you not familiar with systemd, you should read here --> https://wiki.archlin...dex.php/Systemd

To be blunt, I don't like what I see coming down the pike for Arch. I believe that systemd implementation will be an absolute nightmare. I'm no Linux guru, but after reading how systemd works and how utterly different it is from current methods that the majority of distributions are using, I'm not too thrilled with this "improvement".

I believe it may be time for me to say so long to Arch. It's been fun. I don't have any major criticisms. Arch is a fabulous distribution. I thoroughly enjoyed playing with it and learning things. However, I'm no young Linux whipper-snapper these days. I kinda' like old and trustworthy over new and exciting.

I'll probably continue to have Arch as a tester somewhere on one of my systems, but I won't be depending on it as my backup OS anymore.

This change may be taking place soon. We'll see.

#2 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 12:46 AM

Luckily Linux is about choice so you are not forced to use a distro that you do not like.That said, Arch is not forcing to use systemd and having anything automount OOTB goes against the whole KISS philosophy. Systemd is just one of many options but you are not forced to use it either way. Actually the default is to use inits (just like Slackware), not systemd:

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Arch famously follows the BSD init convention as opposed to the more common SysV. What this means is that there is little distinction between runlevels, since the system by default is configured to use the same modules and run the same processes on all runlevels.

https://wiki.archlin...ch_Boot_Process

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systemd can be installed side-by-side with the regular Arch Linux initscripts, and they can be toggled by adding/removing the init=/bin/systemd kernel parameter. If you want a pure systemd setup you can remove initscripts and install systemd-syscompat which provides symlinks for init, reboot etc. You will then not have to specify the init= parameter on your kernel cmdline.
https://wiki.archlin...md#Installation


I do not even have it installed on my system but I can automount drives just fine using Pcmanfm:
╔═ comhack@Cerberus 11:31 PM
╚═══ ~->pacman -Qi systemd
error: package 'systemd' was not found


As soon as I plug in a usb drive, I get a popup window from pcmanfm asking me if I want to open the folder:
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So you can setup automount without even using systemd.

Remember Archlinux has many applications available including systemd and sysvinit that are not part of a normal installation. Core packages are not packages that are installed by default but:

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Core contains packages which:
are needed to boot any kind of supported Arch system.
may be needed to connect to the Internet.
are essential for package building.
can manage and check/repair supported filesystems.
virtually anyone will want or need early in the system setup process (like openssh).
are dependencies (but not necessarily makedepends) of the above.
https://wiki.archlin...ries#.5Bcore.5D

I am not for sure where you got the idea that Archlinux was moving towards systemd but that is incorrect. You do have the option but that is the not the normal way of doing things.
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#3 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:11 AM

Why have they changed all the systemd carp upstream to incorporate udev and dump systemd-tools on users if they don't intend to go 100% with systemd in the near future?

I'll guess we'll see, eventually...

In the meantime, since systemd-tools was forced on us instead of stand-alone udev, my auto-mounting in Thunar is toast.

Oh well...

#4 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:22 AM

View PostV.T. Eric Layton, on 07 July 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

Why have the changed all the systemd carp upstream to incorporate udev and dump systemd-tools on users if they don't intend to go 100% with systemd in the near future?

I'll guess we'll see, eventually...

In the meantime, since systemd-tools was forced on us instead of stand-alone udev, my auto-mounting in Thunar is toast.

Oh well...

Remember all of that is coming from upstream so I guess you would need to ask the actual Linux kernel devs (maybe ask Linus) why they are deciding to go this route?
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"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#5 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:30 AM

I guess people more knowledgeable than I believe that it is progress. Old people don't like change. :(

#6 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:32 AM

Coming to a Linux near you...

http://www.h-online....em-1565543.html

#7 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:34 AM

View PostV.T. Eric Layton, on 07 July 2012 - 01:30 AM, said:

I guess people more knowledgeable than I believe that it is progress. Old people don't like change. :(

I understand :)

Although, you are using a Rolling distro so change happens really fast compared to a normal 'release cycle' type distro. That is the whole reason I like rolling distros B)

View PostV.T. Eric Layton, on 07 July 2012 - 01:32 AM, said:

Coming to a Linux near you...

http://www.h-online....em-1565543.html

Interesting... Thanks :thumbsup:
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"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#8 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:37 AM

Unless Pat V. shocks the world, I should be safe in my ho-hum Slackware for a few more versions. ;)

Actually, when you  read about systemd, it doesn't sound to bad... just the scary unknown. :yes:

Just for funzies... I might try to go 100% systemd in Arch. :w00t:

#9 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:54 AM

View PostV.T. Eric Layton, on 07 July 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

Just for funzies... I might try to go 100% systemd in Arch. :w00t:

Now that sounds like a fun project B)
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"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#10 OFFLINE   abarbarian

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 10:05 AM

View PostV.T. Eric Layton, on 07 July 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

Just for funzies... I might try to go 100% systemd in Arch. :w00t:

I thought you were averse to deep tinkering :rolleyes:
Install ARCH
You'll never need to install it again
"I did and I'm really happy"

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#11 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 10:07 AM

View Postabarbarian, on 07 July 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

I thought you were averse to deep tinkering :rolleyes:

Do not let his frustration fool you, Eric is a geek through and through.:thumbup:

B)
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"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#12 OFFLINE   ichase

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 11:13 AM

View Postsecuritybreach, on 07 July 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

Do not let his frustration fool you, Eric is a geek through and through. :thumbup:
Exactly, within the same post Eric states

Quote

However, I'm no young Linux whipper-snapper these days. I kinda' like old and trustworthy over new and exciting.
Then later on in the same post states:

Quote

Just for funzies... I might try to go 100% systemd in Arch. :w00t:
Let's face it Eric, you may wake up and feel old in body.......You are still YOUNG in mind and still pretty darn sharp.  You love the challenge! ;)

Now YOU get to be the "Lab Rat" and show us Archers how to run Arch with systemd.  I see a new tutorial coming soon.  :hysterical:
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#13 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 11:18 AM

View Postichase, on 07 July 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

Let's face it Eric, you may wake up and feel old in body.......You are still YOUNG in mind and still pretty darn sharp.  You love the challenge! ;)

Now YOU get to be the "Lab Rat" and show us Archers how to run Arch with systemd.  I see a new tutorial coming soon.  :hysterical:

:thumbup:
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"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#14 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:03 PM

Oh, I love knocking around under the hoods of these distributions. I mean c'mon, folks... I'm running Slackware, Arch, CentOS, Debian Sid, Linux Mint, SalixOS, Bodhi Linux, Frugalware, and Foresight Linux on my main system, my shop system, and on one of my laptops. Nah... I'm not a tinkerer at all. ;)

I do get annoyed sometimes, though. I like things to work. I'm not always thrilled by the prospect of hunting down the reasons they don't; particularly on an OS that I consider my backup operating system should my primary OS fail.

With that all being said... keep an eye out for a new thread I'll be starting in a moment or two. :w00tx100:

#15 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:11 PM

View PostV.T. Eric Layton, on 07 July 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

With that all being said... keep an eye out for a new thread I'll be starting in a moment or two. :w00tx100:
Good deal :thumbup:
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"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#16 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 06:51 PM

I believe Mageia 2.0 has switched over to systemd and so far both the Gnome and KDE versions work just fine.
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