51 replies to this topic

[saturnian]

crp, on 19 June 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

I still can not figure out how to get both quotes quoted when replying

sunrat, on 19 June 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

Click "MultiQuote" in each post you want to quote and a little box appears bottom RHS. Click Reply in that box and all the posts you wish to reply to will appear in the reply edit section. You can the edit out any irrelevant bits and add your own replies.

crp, on 19 June 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

Which would have been extremely user unfriendly as I just wanted to quote the Eric section that Santurnian had quoted when quoting the Santurnian post.

It isn't so bad.

[crp]

http://forums.scotsn...=25#entry353602
No Fair! those were short posts!

[sunrat]

Yeah the Quote buttons don't copy quotes from a post. You could use the MultiQuote button to copy the quote from the original post.

[zlim]

I help mainly senior citizens. They go to a big box store or a registered refurb store and buy a computer (with windows on it). They don't purchase a new computer too often. They know how to fire up IE so they can get and send email (webmail in most cases), create documents and databases in Office and perhaps play a game or two included with the windows version they have.
Learning something new is hard and it is more of a  struggle for older people. They expect to turn on a computer and use it with not too much of a learning curve. They expect to follow the directions, attach a printer and have it work.
In fact, some people do not know what version of windows they are running. They call for help and that is usually the first question I ask.
1) I don't try to talk them into using a different browser (they might not even be aware that there are choices besides IE)
2) I help them learn the ins and outs of the new windows version (some friends in their 80s just moved from win 2K to win 7 at the end of last year)
3) I get rid of the bloat on the new computer and explain what and why I am removing "programs"
4) I install security software and show them what all those icons near the clock mean
5) I either write notes or have them take notes while I show them how to do something (example: my friend lost his favorites bar in IE 9 and the icon I put there for his juno webmail disappeared)

Sad but a fact: None of my seniors (15.4% of the state's population) would be looking at linux. They want to use a computer and either don't have the time or the inclination to tinker.

When people admire my 7" netbook, I simply say it does not run windows. It runs something called linux. Some have heard of it while others just say "oh".

[V.T. Eric Layton]

saturnian, on 19 June 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

I think that most of us here know all that. But in conversations like the ones mentioned above, if I start out saying, "I don't use Windows at home," the next thing I'm gonna say is, "I use Linux."

Not: "I use GNU/Linux."

Oh, I don't say "GNU forward slash Linux" in conversation, either. That short history lesson above was for Cookie, primarily.  He may have not ever heard that term or know the history behind it. I use it often in text communications. In real life, I just say "Linux", like 99.99% of us.

Quote

It's unfortunate that someone can't come up with something better.

How 'bout GNUnix? Pronounced --> guh-new-nicks

[V.T. Eric Layton]

zlim, on 19 June 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

Sad but a fact: None of my seniors (15.4% of the state's population) would be looking at linux. They want to use a computer and either don't have the time or the inclination to tinker.

I know exactly what you're saying here. The only thing I would add is that the age group that you're calling "seniors", in my experience, would be 30 and above. I have thirty-something clients who know nothing more than the power button and clicking on the "big e" on their desktop. I have converted a few to Linux, but I have to hand pick them based on my appraisal of whether or not they have a modicum of intelligence and a willingness to learn something new.

[lewmur]

V.T. Eric Layton, on 19 June 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

I know exactly what you're saying here. The only thing I would add is that the age group that you're calling "seniors", in my experience, would be 30 and above. I have thirty-something clients who know nothing more than the power button and clicking on the "big e" on their desktop. I have converted a few to Linux, but I have to hand pick them based on my appraisal of whether or not they have a modicum of intelligence and a willingness to learn something new.

I AM a senior and live in a 400 unit complex just for the elderly.  I have found the exact opposite to be true.  If you set the computer up right, and with the right distro, it is no more difficult for a senior to switch from XP to Linux than it is for them to switch from XP to Win7.

First of all, being one, I don't assume that all seniors are incompetent boobs and I treat them accordingly.  Some of us tend to be grouchy and reluctant to change our ways, but we are NOT STUPID!!  Show us the advantages, (mainly not having our computer slow to a crawl every couple of months) and we'll switch in a heartbeat.

My approach is simple.  Keep paying me to fix your computer every few months or let me set you up with Linux and I'll fix any software problems for free for the next year.  Works the vast majority of the time.

[securitybreach]

lewmur, on 19 June 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

My approach is simple.  Keep paying me to fix your computer every few months or let me set you up with Linux and I'll fix any software problems for free for the next year.  Works the vast majority of the time.

Excellent approach!!!

[crp]

V.T. Eric Layton, on 19 June 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Oh, I don't say "GNU forward slash Linux" in conversation, either. That short history lesson above was for Cookie, primarily.  He may have not ever heard that term or know the history behind it. I use it often in text communications. In real life, I just say "Linux", like 99.99% of us.

What!? you are not at Stallman apostle ?   

[zlim]

lewmur, I resent this comment

Quote

I don't assume that all seniors are incompetent boobs

No where did I say that.
Since I do not live in a senior community, though I am a senior, and neither do the people I freely help, if I can't answer over the phone, I have to drive to their homes. Since I am currently dealing with my 91 year old mother who lives an hour away from me, I'm not available daily. My friends want to use the computer, not wait until I am available to drive to their homes and help them.Your situation is not like mine nor the people I am helping. I'm glad you are around to help and if you can't, help is probably close by with one of the other residents.

[V.T. Eric Layton]

lewmur, on 19 June 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

...but we are NOT STUPID!!

No one here said anything about stupid. If people are stupid, they won't be successful, regardless of their OS. That being said, though, the vast majority of seniors (65+) that I have experience with in real life either don't even own a computer (or cell phone) or they barely know how to turn it on and check the weather forecast.

crp, on 19 June 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

What!? you are not at Stallman apostle ?   

I respect Stallman for his brains and accomplishments, but he can be a bit... well, strange at times.

[raymac46]

I also fix problems for seniors and I have only one who's wholeheartedly embraced Linux. He's a former Royal Canadian Mounted Police officer and he spent many years selling home security systems after he retired from the RCMP. He's sold on the security aspect. He even installed a new printer today on his system with some email coaching.
More typical is the nice lady who gave me a perfectly useful 2007 Dell and bought a new machine rather than have me install Linux. It's her money I guess.

Edited by raymac46, 19 June 2012 - 08:12 PM.

[raymac46]

Quote

Six degrees of separation and all that...

My daughter knows the Chairman of the Bank of Canada and the G-20 Financial Stability Board, so you're only 4 degrees removed from some major economic heavyweights. That and $2.00 will get you a coffee at Tim Horton's.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Mark_Carney

Edited by raymac46, 19 June 2012 - 09:05 PM.

[crp]

raymac46, on 19 June 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

[...] That and $2.00 will get you a coffee at Tim Horton's.    [...]

Is that including taxes?

[SueD]

V.T. Eric Layton, on 18 June 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Heh! I knew SueD from the Delphi - Firefox forums. I brought her over here. Six degrees of separation and all that...

I do get around, don't I?lol

[V.T. Eric Layton]

raymac46, on 19 June 2012 - 09:05 PM, said:

My daughter knows the Chairman of the Bank of Canada and the G-20 Financial Stability Board, so you're only 4 degrees removed from some major economic heavyweights. That and $2.00 will get you a coffee at Tim Horton's.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Mark_Carney

Now all I need to do is find $2.00 and a Tim Horton's.

SueD, on 20 June 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

I do get around, don't I?lol

Runaround Sue?

https://www.youtube....h?v=c49klxPex-k

[SueD]

Hah!

[Cookie]

Completely off topic...

Has anyone messed with Ultimate Edition?  I was talking to Ian about it today, just wondering if it is as awesome as it looks?  Because it looks unbelievable.

[crp]

Cookie, on 20 June 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

Completely off topic...

Has anyone messed with Ultimate Edition?  I was talking to Ian about it today, just wondering if it is as awesome as it looks?  Because it looks unbelievable.

as if we were not already ?

[Cookie]

I wasn't going to say anything...but...

[securitybreach]

Cookie, on 20 June 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

Completely off topic...

Has anyone messed with Ultimate Edition?  I was talking to Ian about it today, just wondering if it is as awesome as it looks?  Because it looks unbelievable.

Ultimate Edition of what? Ubuntu?

[Cookie]

Yes. For now.  The rumor is that the new version will be based on Mint.

[sunrat]

OMG, a thread has gone off-topic in the Highlands! "We'll all be rooned," said Hanrahan! ("Said Hanrahan" is a poem written by the Australian bush poet John O'Brien)

As for Ultimate Edition, I think it's good as a demo for multitudes of apps, but as an everyday system I prefer to start off lean and just add what I need.

[abarbarian]

sunrat, on 21 June 2012 - 03:16 AM, said:

I prefer to start off lean and just add what I need.

Me too. An the first thing I do after setting up is make a backup. Backups are jolly useful so I am told.  

[Vagabond]

Enough lurking: time to add something.

1.  Linus says that until Linux is the default install when you buy a desktop box, Linux will never push Windows aside.

2.  I'm a senior, and I'm stupid.  It's OK for me to say that, but not OK for you to say it (see # 4).

3.  It would be very interesting to know more about the choices made by all these brilliant kids who are in college or just got out who are IT whizzes.  What do they use, and how many platforms do they have?  I should think Linux would be pretty popular with that bunch.

4.  Your choice of an OS is based on your personality -- to a great extent.  Nobody put me onto Linux, but when I was having nothing but trubble with Redmond's stuff, I asked a guy who was trying to fix it for me, "What about this Linux gizmo?  Should I try that?"  He told me I was too stupid.  That did it.  --  Some folks are adventure-lovers, some like to be different, some appreciate well-designed things as works of art, some don't have much respect for fine china, furniture, tools, firearms, kitchens, gardens...they are not "into" things, they just look at the surfaces and move on.  Others just naturally want to know what's on the other side of the hill.  It's personality type, psychology, the way you look at reality.

5.  Time is scarce for almost everybody.  Learning takes time, and many people fret that a change will consume too much of their valuable time, as well as prove that they are stupid.  Linux is intimidating.

6.  People don't understand or care how dangerous M$ stuff is.  How many million computers are in various botnets, where the owners of those boxes have no notion that their computers are being used by criminals?  If people knew, and believed that they might be unwitting parts of that, there would be some movement toward Linux, but most folks can't make the shift just to prevent something they don't understand and don't believe could already be victimizing them.  They figure it will never happen to them, and that if it does, they won't even know about it.  So...no problem, either way.  Logic, common sense and responsibility to others have little effect when it comes to making the right decision, in other words.  Linux loses again.

7.  How can anything that is free be valuable, meaning worth my time and trouble?

Linux is going to shrink, as distros die off because fewer people will be using desktops.  No problem.  It will still be here, and it will just get better.

Over to you....