Jump to content


I've been away for awhile, but still using PC Linux Os.

synaptic repositories unstable

  • Please log in to reply
76 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   onederer

onederer

    Multithreader

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,211 posts

Posted 16 February 2017 - 09:54 PM

I thought that I'd come to see what's different, since the last time I came for a visit.

I'm still using PC Linus OS, for quite a while now. But lately, there seems to be some flaw that's developed with Synaptic, and also updating and upgrading with the Console mode. I better start with Synaptic first.

When it comes to updating with Synaptic, I now have to go into the repositories, and change to a different depository to be able to do any updating/installing. Trying to use the same repository as the last time, the application cannot download all the indexes. When I start using a different repository, the behavior is then normal. This has been happening through updates of the kernel, standard updates, and updates for quite a while now. I've just been smiling and coping with this problem and dealing with it as best as possible, since I know how to handle the problem. Anyone know what's causing this problem? It seems to be inherent in all those sequences of updates/upgrades, and has never been corrected.

And now for the text  mode of updating/upgrading. Updates seem to  happen normally without any visible error message. However, when it comes to upgrading, the downloading of the new applications, and setting it up for installation, seem to be normal. But when it comes to actually doing the upgrade, it may do two lines of the upgrade, and then freeze at that point. The only way that I can kill it is using the system activity screen, and force a hard death of the upgrade. So it boils down that I can only update/upgrade the system by using Synaptic with those tricks that I had mentioned above. The text mode is currently useless to do it to full completion.

I always thought that with a newer upgrade, this problem would go away, but I'm inclined to believe that it has been neglected during all those transitions, and I pity the poor person who knows not how to overcome that problem.

So, I'm looking for a possible solution from one of you guys who  may have come across this problem.
It probably crept in when they went to install once and always be up-to-date. The updates are not automatic. There is a notification that advises of new material, and it's up to the user to actually perform the update/upgrade.

Cheers!
Le savant n'as pas peure de demander des questions.

#2 OFFLINE   saturnian

saturnian

    Topic Cop

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 923 posts

Posted 16 February 2017 - 10:22 PM

Do you think it's related to this?

http://www.pclinuxos...481otfn18i2#new

#3 OFFLINE   onederer

onederer

    Multithreader

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,211 posts

Posted 16 February 2017 - 11:13 PM

It could very well have something to do with the problem. However, I don't understand why a repository goes stale and not reusable after a single usage. And to this day, the problem still exists. I'm forced to use one repository after another to keep the system up to date, or even downloading applications.

I would expect that if it was a flaw, after upgrading the kernel several times, and several updates/upgrades, that problem should have gone away. But it hasn't. Is it just neglect? BTW, the OS itself is running superbly, and have found no problems on daily usage. I found it to be very reliable with all the applications that I've used. And available applications choices are many and quite varied.

Cheers!
Le savant n'as pas peure de demander des questions.

#4 OFFLINE   securitybreach

securitybreach

    CLI Phreak

  • Forum Admins
  • 22,499 posts

Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:49 AM

I didn't even realize that PCLinux OS was still around.

Do you get any sort of error or does it just hang?
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image
CNI Radio/G+ Profile/Configs/PGP Key/comhack π

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#5 OFFLINE   onederer

onederer

    Multithreader

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,211 posts

Posted 17 February 2017 - 09:54 AM

Hi!

In text mode, the update just hangs there endlessly. For many times, I just stood there, thinking that the program was doing some internal computer work, and waiting for that to end, Of course, it never ends, and is not kill-able via a simple CTRL-C, or CTRL-Z.
It's too much of an effort to use the text mode for updates/upgrades.

Unless someone can come up with a solution, I'm at the conclusion that it is a flaw that got entered into the OS once upon a time, and surprisingly, no one ever bothered to fix it. As a matter of fact, last night, I had to  take care of some updates that came in. and it was "sos...". Once, by using Synaptic, using a repository link, it goes stale. It's not reusable until another link has been used the next time. It just can't download all the indexes, and I'm too old and tired to learn it's cause or how to fix that.

Otherwise, as a stable OS, I've no complaints for ordinary operating daily applications. It is very stable. And no "systemd" to have to deal  with. So now, I'm at the position that perhaps you or your friends can come up with a solution to end this problem. Right now I just know how to work around this quirk, so I'm getting along. Too bad for some "newbe" which would have to give up, because of the lack of knowledge of working around this problem.

And yes, PC Linux OS is still around, with semi-auto updates/installations. Install once, and never again. Get the notice that new updates/installs are available, and simply fire up Synaptic, apply the work-around I listed above, and Synaptic will do all the work for keep the OS fresh and up-to-date.

Cheers!
Le savant n'as pas peure de demander des questions.

#6 OFFLINE   securitybreach

securitybreach

    CLI Phreak

  • Forum Admins
  • 22,499 posts

Posted 17 February 2017 - 10:13 AM

View Postonederer, on 17 February 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

Install once, and never again. Get the notice that new updates/installs are available, and simply fire up Synaptic, apply the work-around I listed above, and Synaptic will do all the work for keep the OS fresh and up-to-date.

Cheers!

Yeah, that is the same with all rolling release distros..

Without an error, it is hard to troubleshoot exactly what is going on though...
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image
CNI Radio/G+ Profile/Configs/PGP Key/comhack π

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#7 OFFLINE   raymac46

raymac46

    Board Bigwig

  • Forum MVP
  • 2,980 posts

Posted 17 February 2017 - 11:22 AM

I haven't used PCLOS for a while, but I remember that they always recommended using Synaptic rather than the Terminal. If you do want the command line, it was apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade not apt-get upgrade.
Posted Image

Registered Linux User 445659

#8 OFFLINE   Hedon James

Hedon James

    Thread Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 708 posts

Posted 17 February 2017 - 01:06 PM

Could this be an IPv6 or mirror issue?

http://www.linuxques...uck-4175556180/

EDIT:  Perhaps Ray is onto something with apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade.  PCLOS Wiki page specifically instructs NOT to update/upgrade from command line; to use synaptic for these functions, copied & pasted below:

DO NOT USE apt-get update and apt-get upgrade from the command line. This has never been the recommended way. If you insist on using command line, the correct procedure is apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade.

http://pclinuxoshelp..._Your_PCLinuxOS

Interesting problem though...

Edited by Hedon James, 17 February 2017 - 01:13 PM.


#9 OFFLINE   onederer

onederer

    Multithreader

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,211 posts

Posted 17 February 2017 - 01:40 PM

I have to agree that it would be nice to have an error statement show up. But such is not my luck! It seems to be stuck in a loop, perhaps? But to kill it is quite an effort. It will probably produce two lines while doing the installation part, and freeze on the second line. This seems to be pretty consistent.

This brings up another question. Considering that Synaptic is supposed to be simply a graphic extension of "apt-get", then why does Synaptic successfully completes the entire update/upgrade procedure, while the text mode fails in the installation phase. Is that a clue? Of course, for that to happen, I first have to apply my trick with the repositories, and the "lost index(es).

Before this problem(s) showed up, I was able to do upgrades/updates using either the text mode(in any manner) or the graphic mode. But now, that's been a good while ago. I've just been putzing around 'till now, when I finally decided to go seek a solution to this quirk.

I really don't want to change OS's. I've done that too many times before, when the OS started to fail in normal daily usage, I dumped it. I've not had that problem with what I'm using now, for a number of years. All applications seem to simply work error-free, and that's more than I can say for some other OS's that I've used in the past.

Cheers!
Le savant n'as pas peure de demander des questions.

#10 OFFLINE   Hedon James

Hedon James

    Thread Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 708 posts

Posted 17 February 2017 - 05:07 PM

That's why it's an interesting problem onederer!  I could understand if the GUI fails, but the manual CLI incantation succeeds.  But it sure is strange that the GUI succeeds where the CLI fails.  FWIW, I find it interesting that PCLOS suggests using Synaptic for upgrades; going out of their way to discourage users from CLI updates.

Furthermore, PCLOS is kinda unusual in the way they choose to implement RPM packages with Synaptic, a Debian tool.  So there are additional "layers" and compatibilities to troubleshoot.  And nothing I've posted/linked above passes a "common sense" test, IMO, to explain why Synaptic succeeds, while CLI fails.  Everything I've linked would likely cause BOTH to fail, IMO.  Makes me wonder if there isn't a "patch" or setting applied to the Synaptic/GUI wrapper of apt-get....or perhaps a flag of some sort that we're not aware of with the CLI.

Found this on the PCLOS user forum.  Not sure what he's talking about, but perhaps a PCLOS user would understand it?  Just seems like it might explain why Synaptic succeeds, but CLI does not.  And I note the date of posting within the past 3 weeks.  Perhaps lining up with your window of experienced issues?

http://www.pclinuxos...c,140492.0.html

EDIT:

Further down the forum page, I saw this:
http://www.pclinuxos...c,132381.0.html

Looks like PCLOS supplies repository info as a package.  Do you have the CURRENT package?  Are you using the default main repository, or a mirror?  If it were me, I think I'd make sure my apt-sources-list package has a version higher than 1.1-6 and/or a date circa January 26, 2017.  With the most recent package, Tex indicates that any "other" mirror you're using will be automatically switched to the main repo at nluug.nl.  I would try to update/upgrade using that setting.  If it fails, we can rule out the most recent repo package as a cause.  If it succeeds, switch to your preferred mirror and try update/upgrade in future.  If it fails, it's a mirror; if it succeeds, it was a "most recent package" issue...congrats you fixed it?!

Edited by Hedon James, 17 February 2017 - 05:18 PM.


#11 OFFLINE   onederer

onederer

    Multithreader

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,211 posts

Posted 17 February 2017 - 08:49 PM

By preference. I would love to only use ONE repo link. But as long as this problem of each link going stale after only one use, I have to go down the line to the next one in order to update/upgrade the OS. Yes. that would be nice, select only one repo link, and stick to it for all new upgrades.

I did go the the PCLinuxOS web site, and finally did register this problem. Perhaps someone of knowledge will take notice of this problem, and pick up the ball, to get it rectified. It's an old problem that has persisted over many update/upgrade sequences. Very surprised that  no one has ever picked up on it. And by the way, this doesn't just exist in KDE, but in all the managers that use this same OS repositories.

New packages are no longer issued by PCLOS. Updates/upgrades are done as they come along at random times, and random lengths. It's now a rolling release unless it's a brand new installation.

Cheers!
Le savant n'as pas peure de demander des questions.

#12 OFFLINE   raymac46

raymac46

    Board Bigwig

  • Forum MVP
  • 2,980 posts

Posted 17 February 2017 - 10:08 PM

I played around with PCLOS in 2007 as an alternative to Ubuntu back in my distro hopping days. I had problems with a big update completely borking my system. It was about that time I came here and Bruno suggested I just try Mandriva - which had a consistent RPM/urpmi package system and the famous Madriva Control Center for a GUI update. I believe he'd suggest Mageia today.
I never have been comfortable with a Debian updater installing RPM packages. However lots of folks are and PCLOS continues to be a popular distro.
I do agree with HJ to go with the default repo and make sure you are up to date with your sources-list.
Posted Image

Registered Linux User 445659

#13 OFFLINE   raymac46

raymac46

    Board Bigwig

  • Forum MVP
  • 2,980 posts

Posted 17 February 2017 - 11:22 PM

I tried a spin of PCLOS in VBox and it's really unstable in VBox for Windows. I couldn't get the MATE version to let me log in after installation, and X wouldn't run at all with the KDE version unless I went with VESA. I did manage to run Synaptic in KDE and it says nothing needs to be updated. So that isn't too helpful I know. I din't have any issues like this with an MX-16 install in VBox.
Posted Image

Registered Linux User 445659

#14 OFFLINE   onederer

onederer

    Multithreader

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,211 posts

Posted 17 February 2017 - 11:30 PM

Thank you for your come-back:

As of this date, I cannot stick with the one repo. I tried it again today. but couldn't use the repo that I had used the last time! Had to move on to the next one, and refresh, then install the one upgrade that was available. Until this is fixed, I've had to do this for several years now, having to keep on using a different repo each time a new upgrade is available. Always get the error message that it could not completely download all the indexes. The recommended repo is the first thing that I tried today. and it did give me that same error message that it couldn't download all the indexes. The next repo below it, could. But if I try to use it once again it loses some indexes for whatever reason. I'm forced to have to sequencially go right down the line of all the repos, in order to achieve upgrades. Any one repo can be used only ONCE!

Now, if someone knows how to force a single repo to be able to allow me to download all the indexes before the upgrade can be done, I'll be very interested to learn how to do that. NLUUG.NL is doing the exact same thing as all the other repos and mirrors. Use the link once only, and then some of the indexes disappear. It can't be used again. Need to move on to the next one.

Cheers!
Le savant n'as pas peure de demander des questions.

#15 OFFLINE   onederer

onederer

    Multithreader

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,211 posts

Posted 17 February 2017 - 11:43 PM

What you tried to do, using Windows, and a VM doesn't replicate what I'm doing. It''s a completely different environment. Not all Linux OS's run nice in a virtual environment. I have to assume that you will not be able to duplicate what I'm doing, while my system is installed in a regular setup, using a hard drive. PCLOS is very stable here, with all the normal applications that I use everyday. If I can overcome this update/upgrade missing indexes problem, everything will once more become honky-dory. Until then, as  long as I do know how to work around the problem, life will go on. Otherwise, I'd be forced to start shopping for another replacement OS.
Le savant n'as pas peure de demander des questions.

#16 OFFLINE   saturnian

saturnian

    Topic Cop

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 923 posts

Posted 18 February 2017 - 01:05 AM

Is it possible to start Synaptic from the command line (to be able to see if any error messages get thrown up)? My apologies if you've tried that and I missed it in the thread.

Edited by saturnian, 18 February 2017 - 01:06 AM.


#17 OFFLINE   onederer

onederer

    Multithreader

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,211 posts

Posted 18 February 2017 - 02:02 AM

To restate the condition: As an experiment, I did try to start Synaptic from the command line and went to the repository section, then tried the link to the repository that I had used earlier today. As usual, it told me that it couldn't load all of the 7 indexes. This time it only downloaded 2 of them. Again, this meant that now had to go down and use the next available repository, if I was going to do an upgrade. It's always been use once, and move on to the next repository. The trick is to force the accessed repository to send me all of the 7 indexes, which is the normal way things should happen. And this should happen all the time, without having to utilize another new repository to do the job. No upgrades/updates can be done, unless the repository indexes are downloaded first. And we are talking about Synaptic this time. The command line problems is altogether a different problem (I think). It hangs up while doing the installation portion of the upgrade, on the second line. And the hangup cannot be killed  unless it's done by the system controller.

I'm trying with my best effort to make myself understood. If you think that I'm going about this the wrong way, please let me know.
The key to this Synaptic problem is that the repository indexes are not all being downloaded to complete the job. And this is the only error message that I get, which tells me that this repository link is toast and stale. Move on and use the next repository.
Le savant n'as pas peure de demander des questions.

#18 OFFLINE   raymac46

raymac46

    Board Bigwig

  • Forum MVP
  • 2,980 posts

Posted 18 February 2017 - 08:03 AM

Sorry I wasn't able to duplicate your problem. My experience with VMs differs from yours. I have found that if the distro works in a VM it will update pretty much the same way it does on the rails. Certainly that is the case with most Debian and Arch based distros.
Sometimes I have had problems with VM video after updates but the update itself loads and the upgrade proceeds OK.
I don't have a free machine where I can load up PCLOS. I was going to try it out as a Linux guest on LM 18 but if you think it's too far from reality I won't bother.
And you are correct that not all distros play well in VMs. The PCLOS Wlki has some ideas about getting it working but the documentation needs some updating.

Edited by raymac46, 18 February 2017 - 10:09 AM.

Posted Image

Registered Linux User 445659

#19 OFFLINE   onederer

onederer

    Multithreader

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,211 posts

Posted 18 February 2017 - 08:49 AM

I'm still waiting for a response from Texstar (Bill) After going to the PCLOS website, i'm hoping that someone picks up on the problem, and finds a solution. They have the tools and the knowledge to check into this problem. I think that I've done my work as best as I can, and have come up to the conclusion that the error is built-in the OS itself. When one goes through several upgrades, and Kernel upgrades, and the nagging problem still exists, I can't say that it's my computer, seeing that the problem is fixed in that one section of the OS, and is repeatable all the time. After all that time, I simply decided to tackle the problem, hoping that if the problem is solved, it will also help many other people who don't know how to cope with what's happening.

Anyone know how to change the repository in text mode? It's been a long time since that's been necessary to do. However, I'm curious if doing the change manually would make a difference on downloading all the indexes, after using one single repository twice.

Cheers!
Le savant n'as pas peure de demander des questions.

#20 OFFLINE   saturnian

saturnian

    Topic Cop

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 923 posts

Posted 18 February 2017 - 09:07 AM

After reading this comment in your thread over there (by "kjpetrie"), I'd seriously consider reinstalling the system:

Quote

There is only one pclos repository, but the different mirrors sync at different times, so they can vary in how up-to-date they are. This means you should choose only one mirror which is good for your location and stick with it. Using more than one mirror will confuse the package manager and lead to incompatible packages and damage your system.


#21 OFFLINE   onederer

onederer

    Multithreader

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,211 posts

Posted 18 February 2017 - 09:47 AM

As long as this lost index(s) problem exists, it is impossible to stay on only ONE repository! It just won't work twice in a row. I don't care if it  is NLUUG.NL, or any other mirrors. The same bad result is 100% on ALL of the repositories. One use only, and not twice. Then the next repo has to be utilized. Solve why the indexes fail to completely download a second time, and the puzzle is solved. It is futile to tell me that to stick to only one repository. With the existing problem, it makes that reality impossible. If I could stick to only one repo, I would not be writing this today. This is why I'm here. More brains and experience in one spot, raises the chance of curing the problem.

Cheers!
Le savant n'as pas peure de demander des questions.

#22 OFFLINE   Hedon James

Hedon James

    Thread Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 708 posts

Posted 18 February 2017 - 09:47 AM

Good find by Saturnian!

I have PCLOS-LXDE community remix in a VM, because I think PCLOS is an interesting and well-done distro that I like to tinker with and learn more about.  FWIW, it has been supremely stable in my VM and has performed well.  You (onederer) have expressed concern about "finding a new distro" if PCLOS cannot be fixed, which I understand; but my first thought when I read that was "why not just reinstall PCLOS to fix the corruption?"

I do agree with your assessment that your OS is corrupted.  I do believe that PCLOS implements something with Synaptic (likely to make it work better with RPM packages) that none of us are aware of, as PCLOS is the only distro I know that uses the Debian package manager to manage RPM packages.  I do believe that it is localized to YOUR system, as I would suspect that an OS bug experienced as long as you describe almost certainly would have affected others, which would have yielded other threads/posts on the PCLOS forum.

IF Saturnian's find applies to your system, your corruption is likely user-induced.  I can certainly understand how switching mirrors might have confused the package manager with differing versions or time stamp diffs; but I still can't deduce how the Synaptic GUI can work around it (awkwardly), but the apt-get CLI fails (or maybe it's doing the same thing as Synaptic, but without visual feedback?).

I'm sure Tex would have better advice than us, but before you do a nuclear reinstallation, I'd look into a package reinstallation.  Does PCLOS use dpkg as an alternative package manager for downloaded packages?  If so, is it possible to download a Synaptic RPM package from PCLOS?  As well as the apt-sources-list package?

With both packages downloaded, but NOT installed, I'd apt-get purge the Synaptic and apt-sources-list packages from my system.  I think I'd also apt-get autoclean and apt-get autoremove to ensure any related, but potentially corrupted "orphans" were also removed.  I'd then use dpkg to install the downloaded Synaptic and apt-sources-list RPM packages.  With fresh new packages installed, I would think that would address the issue.  If it does not, you can still nuke the existing OS and reinstall.  I hate reinstallations, and will do everything I can to avoid it, but sometimes you just have to.  JMO...

#23 OFFLINE   raymac46

raymac46

    Board Bigwig

  • Forum MVP
  • 2,980 posts

Posted 18 February 2017 - 10:03 AM

I installed PCLOS MATE as a guest in VBox on Linux Mint. After I figured out the intricacies of the login screen I was in. I used Synaptic to update and upgrade. Everything worked fine, but this was my first attempt to update. I'll wait a couple of days and try again.
If you do try this, make sure you click on your user ID and then type the password in the box correctly. Nothing shows on the screen so you don't know if the keyboard is working. But it is.
Posted Image

Registered Linux User 445659

#24 OFFLINE   saturnian

saturnian

    Topic Cop

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 923 posts

Posted 18 February 2017 - 10:29 AM

View Postonederer, on 18 February 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

As long as this lost index(s) problem exists, it is impossible to stay on only ONE repository!

Sorry, onederer, but as was pointed out, there IS only one repo. Don't confuse "mirrors" with "repositories".

#25 OFFLINE   securitybreach

securitybreach

    CLI Phreak

  • Forum Admins
  • 22,499 posts

Posted 18 February 2017 - 10:29 AM

It almost seems If this was Debian, I would of just told you that you need another /etc/apt/sources.list generated as some of the mirrors are bad/down but the problem that makes it hard to diagnose is that PCLos uses rpm mixed in with apt-get which is made for deb files.

You could try rebuilding your RPM database:

As root:

Quote

[root@localhost ~]# rm -rf /var/lib/rpm/__db*

Rebuild RPM database: (This can take a while. Let it finish!)

[root@localhost ~]# rpm --rebuilddb

Check for duplicate installed packages:

[root@localhost ~]# dupeclean

Clean out apt

[root@localhost ~]# apt-get clean
[root@localhost ~]# apt-get autoclean

Type exit
Type exit


http://www.pclinuxos...p?topic=80839.0

I used to know about how this was done way back when I was trying out PcLinuxOS but that has been 8-10 years ago.. I am curious as to how Synaptic/apt-get handles RPMs so I am going to download it and run a KVM instance on my server to look at Synaptic's output (like how you can let Synaptic show you the output in a terminal like window inside Synaptic).
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image
CNI Radio/G+ Profile/Configs/PGP Key/comhack π

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: synaptic, repositories, unstable

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users