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#51 OFFLINE   Hedon James

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 12:04 PM

I believe we can safely state that this problem is an issue with Debian-based version 0.13 of LXQt DE in Virtualbox.  Those are the only consistencies across all my VM distros.  FWIW...

#52 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 12:27 PM

Makes sense. Trust me to choose the DE and distro that'll go pear-shaped in VBox.
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#53 OFFLINE   Hedon James

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 01:26 PM

haha!  it's still a good test-bed though.  If it impresses in VirtualBox, even IF it goes pear-shaped, it will probably go beast-mode on bare metal?!

I'm still digging Sparky LXQt rolling!  Knock on wood...so far so good!

#54 OFFLINE   Hedon James

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 02:29 PM

Found something interesting Ray.  Boot in recovery mode, so you can see the start process without a Plymouth screen.  You can see the boot process "hanging" or being "throttled" at several checkpoints in the boot sequence.  Not sure what it means, and certainly don't know what to do about it, but instead of wondering what is causing the boot delays, you can SEE the extreme delays.  FWIW...

#55 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 03:34 PM

Recovery mode was rather unenlightening for me. I saw the early part of the boot process but Sparky zipped through it until I either had to put in the root password or hit Ctrl-D. At this point after Ctrl-D the display manager took over and after I put in user ID and password I just got the login screen for a while until the desktop came up.
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#56 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 04:14 PM

Just for giggles I installed the LXQt desktop on my Thinkpad which runs Debian Stretch. It boots and runs like a champion. Posting from it now. So we can safely say it's a VBox issue. :yes:

Edited by raymac46, 14 September 2018 - 04:16 PM.

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#57 OFFLINE   sunrat

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 09:17 PM

Let me get clear on this. The problem is only on latest VBox when the guest is updated to 4.18 kernel?
Sparky with 4.16 kernel seems fine on latest VBox. Host siduction has 4.18.6.
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#58 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 07:50 AM

The one that has given slow boots (but works eventually) is Sparky LXQt in VBox with kernel 4.18. I am using latest VBox on Windows 10 host.
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#59 OFFLINE   Hedon James

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 08:48 AM

I experienced this issue booting Sparky LXQt on VirtualBox 5.1.0.  Both kernel 4.17 and kernel 4.18 are slow.  While I initially installed with 4.16 kernel, I don't know if slow boot was an issue with that kernel, as Sparky was brand new to me and the kernel updated so quickly after initial install.  And Sparky has already "cleaned up" the 4.16 kernel residuals, so I can't boot with that.

Referencing the chain of posts between Ray and me, Ray has the latest & greatest VirtualBox, while I do not (trailing edge, heheh?).

#60 OFFLINE   Hedon James

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Posted 19 September 2018 - 11:23 AM

Ray, and anyone else following along who's interested, I've got this problem solved!

Cruising the Sparky forums looking for ANYTHING that might yield a clue to slow-booting desktop environments, and found this thread:
https://sparkylinux....pic,4554.0.html

It was interesting to me, as it indicated the problem wasn't limited to LXQt, but also found in XFCE.  I tried the XFCE solution, with no satisfaction, so re-installed the purged package.  Cruised around the forum looking for related entries and found threads discussing
systemd-analyze time
and
systemd-analyze blame
(of which this forum thread discussed extensively) and even some resolved threads indicating that 2 desktops installed on the same Sparky, then removed; and similarly, an UUID entry in fstab in a former dual-boot situation were both culprits in a slow-booting Sparky.

I even cruised the Siduction forum, knowing that my Siduction LXQt VM experiences a nearly identical issue.  (saw a fella named sunrat on that forum!  'Wazzup!)  Siduction forum indicates that a Siduction VM (of any flavor) won't even boot in VB with kernel 4.18, recommending boot with kernel 4.17 as a workaround.  This is exactly what I do in Siduction.

Coupled with Ray & my personal experiences, this all seems to point squarely at Debian Sid/Testing kernels, IMO, and their interaction with VB.  Inasmuch as I continue to be enamored with Sparky, and given that I haven't found any deal-killers (yet?!), I decided to register for the forum and pose the question in that thread.  Woke up this morning to an overnight response from pavroo, who is a Sparky dev, which I know from experiences lurking on that forum.  He said that the Sparky kernel resolves the VB issue?  WHAT?  Doesn't Sparky install and boot with its own kernel?  Nope...
uname -a
indicates the 4.18.0 kernel is a Debian kernel...likely the same problem kernel in Sid, or derived from the same one, I'd venture a guess.

So I poked around in Sparky's APTus application (for Sparky repo packages) and sure enough, in the System category, is an option to "Install Sparky Kernel".  Long story short, installed the Sparky kernel, rebooted, and the desktop appears rather quickly!  Added bonus, I now have sound and my shared folder with my host system is now visible and mounted in PCManFM-QT!  Double added bonus, it appears that the Sparky community (or at least the developer) is active, with good ability to troubleshoot the distro.  Another criteria checked off the list for new-distro shopping!

So there ya go Ray....I think we were right with kernel/VB issues...and the Sparky dev has provided a solution that works in my rig.  While I still have the ever-so-smallest nagging doubt that it "could be a coincidence", this is easily tested.  If you're so inclined, would you please do the same with your Sparky VB and verify it works in your installation also?

#61 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 07:49 AM

Not a lot of time to discuss today as I have a doctor appointment, but yes installing the Sparky kernel fixed the issue of the slow boot in VBox.
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#62 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 11:08 AM

Back from the doc - all OK. The release announcement for Sparky 5.5 references the long load time and the substitution of Sparky Kernel 4.18.8 as default in the ISO. So it does look as if the Sparky developers are on top of things. It might be a good choice for an HJ respin if you are satisfied with how they handle the Testing to Stable interim when Buster becomes stable.
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#63 OFFLINE   Hedon James

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 03:58 PM

View Postraymac46, on 20 September 2018 - 11:08 AM, said:

Back from the doc - all OK. The release announcement for Sparky 5.5 references the long load time and the substitution of Sparky Kernel 4.18.8 as default in the ISO. So it does look as if the Sparky developers are on top of things. It might be a good choice for an HJ respin if you are satisfied with how they handle the Testing to Stable interim when Buster becomes stable.

Yep.  They scored major points with quick diagnosis and response on the forum.  I think Sparky might be "the one", but I've got time to keep putting it through its paces.  Ideally, I'd like to pass through that cycle before I make a final determination.  I'm perfectly willing to stick with Lubuntu...don't want to, but willing.  Lack of "rolling release" is the only knock against it, IMO...but that's become an important one.

It's kind of interesting...I was a distro farmer before I even made the switch to Linux.  Back then, I farmed to find out which was the right distro for me.  I bounced around between several distros in a VM before Ubuntu 9.10 became the clear cut choice.  And I was happy with that decision and continued to use it (even through the Unity brouhahaha) until around 14.04, when it started to just get too resource hungry.  Coming from Windows, that's kinda funny, but after 5 years of being spoiled, that was no longer acceptable.  Lubuntu was an easy choice after that.  I could make it look exactly like Unity, but still with underlying Ubuntu under-pinnings (say THAT 3x fast!).  This will be the first time that I'm looking to make a switch because I was the one who moved the target, so to speak.  Even the initial Windows>Linux migration was because of Windows-initiated issues, IMO.  This one is definitely on me though...and thankfully, there are options.  Out of the hundreds available, and the approximately 10+ that I've recently sorted through and distro-farmed, we may have ONE ideal distro.  I love that we have those choices available!

#64 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 20 September 2018 - 04:39 PM

I think I'll probably keep at least three distros on the go:
  • Linux Mint Cinnamon - my wife and grandkids find it easy to use and most converts to Linux like it.
  • Debian - I like GNOME 3 (finally) and Debian is very stable (if you choose stable.) Flexible enough to choose different desktops if you don't like GNOME.
  • Arch - love pacman and the geeky way you install, plus you can roll it any way you want. As a rolling release, you can't beat it.

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#65 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 28 September 2018 - 12:34 PM

More Sparky LXQt Issues. After the last update when I start the VM I get a black screen and the display jumps back and forth between full screen and a much smaller one that I assume is 1024X768 from the look of it. The display manager never shows up. I just deleted the VM.
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#66 OFFLINE   Hedon James

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Posted 28 September 2018 - 01:10 PM

i've been updating also, and just updated yesterday.  no issues for me...so far(!).  knock on wood.

#67 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 28 September 2018 - 01:17 PM

Nuke and repave. I just downloaded and installed the Sparky 5.5 ISO of LXQt and everything is back to normal.
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#68 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 01:37 PM

Well, Sparky Linux LXQt is still chugging away and I haven't had any systems issues with instance #2 so far in VBox. What troubles me though is the huge number of updates since it's based on Debian Testing. It should pose no problem to a veteran user of Linux - it's no more problematic than Arch in this regard - but I personally would not install it for a new user. The stable version now based on Stretch might be better, although at present it is an LXDE based distro.
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#69 OFFLINE   Hedon James

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 04:48 PM

View Postraymac46, on 15 October 2018 - 01:37 PM, said:

Well, Sparky Linux LXQt is still chugging away and I haven't had any systems issues with instance #2 so far in VBox. What troubles me though is the huge number of updates since it's based on Debian Testing. It should pose no problem to a veteran user of Linux - it's no more problematic than Arch in this regard - but I personally would not install it for a new user. The stable version now based on Stretch might be better, although at present it is an LXDE based distro.

I've got to be honest and say that thought has crossed my mind also.  I've got users who repeatedly ignore the "updates available" notification until their systems get buggy/quirky and THEN tell me they're "having problems."  I check it out and there are 136 updates available and I'm waiting for all 136 to install before I verify everything is working fine again.  A huge waste of my time.  I've told folks to "keep their system updated....if there's updates, INSTALL THEM!"  I've shown them what the notification icon looks like and where it's located...they have ONE JOB, and continuously fail at that.  Now that I see how often Sparky updates, I'm questioning whether a rolling distro is right for them.  If they wait months to notify me, it may be too late to resolve.  OTOH, I am LOVING Sparky...depending on how it handles the freeze for Buster (coming soon).  If it's a smooth ride, I think I'll have a new distro!

As for my users that I support, I'm giving serious consideration to cutting them loose and leaving them to fend for themselves.  I don't expect everyone (or even ANYONE) to become a computer guru, or even proficient, but when they continue to ignore my advice over and over and over again...that's taking advantage of my generosity, IMO.  I install their systems for them; I provide instruction; I provide written "cheat sheets"; I provide free tech support; and all I ask is that they keep their systems updated, as nearly 75% of linux problems are fixed with updates.  I get furious when their response to the accumulated updates is that they "didn't have the time", so they put it off; but apparently it's okay to waste MY time for THEIR computer.  They have ONE JOB, and can't even be bothered to do that one thing.

I'm not sure I can continue to help people who won't even help themselves.  Maybe they SHOULD be using Windows and Macs?  Perhaps they'll learn better when they're paying MS and Apple for tech support?  I don't know the answer yet, as I don't make long-term decisions based on short-term circumstances, but that option is certainly on the table now...

#70 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 06:19 PM

I hear ya. Right now I am putting off dealing with one guy who is using Linux Mint 14 and I know I'll have to back up all his data before a total reinstall. This guy insists on using an obsolete genealogy program that won't even run with Windows 7 and newer. Of course, he discovered it works fine with Wine so he installed it with Linux. I'm not sure how to even back that program up. I assume some sort of GEDCOM file will work. But that shouldn't be my job either.
On the other hand I have a 95 year old lady client who handles updates with aplomb. She can't remember her Facebook password but she can update.
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#71 OFFLINE   Hedon James

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 09:18 AM

View Postraymac46, on 15 October 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:

I hear ya. Right now I am putting off dealing with one guy who is using Linux Mint 14 and I know I'll have to back up all his data before a total reinstall. This guy insists on using an obsolete genealogy program that won't even run with Windows 7 and newer. Of course, he discovered it works fine with Wine so he installed it with Linux. I'm not sure how to even back that program up. I assume some sort of GEDCOM file will work. But that shouldn't be my job either.
On the other hand I have a 95 year old lady client who handles updates with aplomb. She can't remember her Facebook password but she can update.

It's been forever since I used any Windows programs in WINE.  If I remember correctly, WINE installs programs in a prefix setting (bottle) within the WINE directory.  If you backup the WINE directory, I think you've got it.  At least, that's how it used to be...I think?

#72 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 03:10 PM

Yes I think you are right.
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#73 OFFLINE   burninbush

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 07:24 PM

Hi all ... I have a recent version of Sparky installed, full.  But I have a couple questions:

1) I see from some screenshots that there must be some way of putting an icon for some app into the taskbar (quick-launch?), but I can't find it.  How to do that?

2) How can I get it to recognize a usb flashdisk?  Without moving anything the disk is perfectly readable in Win7 and Porteus (and others).  It's a 32gb on vfat.  Similar results on any other flashdisk on Sparky.   I see a mustard-colored box near the clock readout called "Removable Media/Devices Manager" -- but it doesn't do anything.   Flash media doesn't appear in fdisk -l, pretends it isn't there.  

TIA for any help.

#74 OFFLINE   Hedon James

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 09:30 PM

View Postburninbush, on 19 November 2018 - 07:24 PM, said:

Hi all ... I have a recent version of Sparky installed, full.  But I have a couple questions:

1) I see from some screenshots that there must be some way of putting an icon for some app into the taskbar (quick-launch?), but I can't find it.  How to do that?

2) How can I get it to recognize a usb flashdisk?  Without moving anything the disk is perfectly readable in Win7 and Porteus (and others).  It's a 32gb on vfat.  Similar results on any other flashdisk on Sparky.   I see a mustard-colored box near the clock readout called "Removable Media/Devices Manager" -- but it doesn't do anything.   Flash media doesn't appear in fdisk -l, pretends it isn't there.  

TIA for any help.

I'm assuming Sparky LXQT?

If so, you're on the right track.  Right click on the panel and choose "configure panel" then select the quick-launch widget.  From there, you can click on your desired application and drag to the quick-launch area.  you can also click on individual app icons and choose "move left/right" to re-arrange the sequence.

With respect to the usb thumbdrive, it sounds like Sparky isn't recognizing it and therefore isn't auto-mounting.  I'd suspect a bad drive, but you said it works in Win and Porteus, so something else must be happening there.  Does it work in a different port?  sometimes a port causes problems with usb drives.  I'm hoping someone else chimes in with thoughts on that one.

Once mounted, it should be accessible in that "mustard-colored box" you found.  That "box" is a shortcut to the mounted drive within PCManFM-QT (file manager).  Once it's recognized, you can also set how pcmanfm-qt handles external media by selecting edit>preferences>volume and checking/unchecking the boxes for the behavior you prefer.




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