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#1 OFFLINE   saturnian

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 11:49 AM

The other day, I installed Kubuntu 17.10. Well, I'd taken a look at Dedoimedo's review of that release (not good: https://www.dedoimed...rk-upgrade.html), but I know from experience that just because Dedoimedo doesn't like something doesn't mean that it won't work out here for me. Sure enough, the installation went fine and Kubuntu 17.10 looks good here. I'll probably replace it with the 18.04 LTS release later this year.

These days, I tend to like the Ubuntu "flavors" (as well as derivatives/spin-offs -- Linux Mint, for example) better than Ubuntu itself, mainly because I don't like that Ubuntu includes stuff like the ubuntu-amazon-default.desktop package (see: https://www.lifewire...-ubuntu-4134329). Kubuntu doesn't ship with that Amazon stuff. In any case, I think that Ubuntu (especially if it's an LTS release) provides a really great base for other distros. I really liked Lubuntu when I had that running here a while back.

Also, I got a great deal on a new HP notebook (as if I really needed another computer!). Couldn't pass it up, so I brought it home and installed Debian Stretch on it, from the Debian Live (GNOME) 9.0.1 flash drive that I'd used back in July. I haven't done much with this installation yet; got it installed, got the basic setup done, updated the system (to 9.0.3), added a few packages, that's about it. I just wanted to make sure that I could install Linux on that machine.

Odd issue with the new notebook: I couldn't boot it with the MX-17 flash drive. I get "unknown filestystem" messages -- for example:

error: unknown filesystem.
unaligned pointer 0xb24c8be8
Aborted. Press any key to exit.

But (1) the same MX-17 flash drive boots my other computers just fine, and (2) every other flash drive I've tried on the new HP notebook booted into the respective distro's live session with no problem. I've booted it with Debian Live, GParted Live, and the SalentOS live session. Just now, I tried the Kubuntu 17.10 flash drive and had no problem booting into a live session with that one, either. So that's interesting; maybe I'll make a new MX-17 flash drive and try it later. The weird thing is that MX (like Mepis, years ago) is usually the one that works when other live sessions don't!

Edited by saturnian, 21 January 2018 - 11:53 AM.


#2 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 11:54 AM

Is it set to UEFI only in the bios?
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#3 OFFLINE   saturnian

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:02 PM

View Postsecuritybreach, on 21 January 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

Is it set to UEFI only in the bios?

I don't see anything in the BIOS setup that says "UEFI only" but I set it up the same way I'd done with another HP notebook; I disabled Secure Boot and then changed the "UEFI Boot Order" to the following:

Internal CD/DVD ROM Drive
USB Diskette on Key/USB Disk
OS boot Manager
USB CD/DVD ROM Drive
! Network Adapter

Doesn't make sense that I can get into the live systems from the other distros' flash drives that I tried, but not with the MX-17 flash drive -- or that the MX-17 flash drive works fine on every other computer here.

#4 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:05 PM

Well I only mentioned that as the HP laptops at work all have an option for UEFI only, Legacy only or UEFI and Legacy.
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"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#5 OFFLINE   saturnian

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:07 PM

Oh, and another weird thing, during installation I set up the root password but it wouldn't work post-installation. So I reiinstalled. Same issue. I finally reset the root password (see: http://debian-bits-a...d-recovery.html) and it works fine now.

#6 OFFLINE   saturnian

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:14 PM

View Postsecuritybreach, on 21 January 2018 - 12:05 PM, said:

Well I only mentioned that as the HP laptops at work all have an option for UEFI only, Legacy only or UEFI and Legacy.

Oh, in my setup, it's "InsydeH20 Setup Utility -- Rev. 5.0" -- whatever all that means -- and on the System Configuration tab under Boot Options, Legacy Support is disabled (that's the default). So, in effect, that's UEFI only, I guess.

#7 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:37 PM

View Postsaturnian, on 21 January 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

View Postsecuritybreach, on 21 January 2018 - 12:05 PM, said:

Well I only mentioned that as the HP laptops at work all have an option for UEFI only, Legacy only or UEFI and Legacy.

Oh, in my setup, it's "InsydeH20 Setup Utility -- Rev. 5.0" -- whatever all that means -- and on the System Configuration tab under Boot Options, Legacy Support is disabled (that's the default). So, in effect, that's UEFI only, I guess.

Yup, which means that it cannot boot a non uefi/gpt drive.
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#8 OFFLINE   saturnian

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:44 PM

View Postsecuritybreach, on 21 January 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

View Postsaturnian, on 21 January 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

View Postsecuritybreach, on 21 January 2018 - 12:05 PM, said:

Well I only mentioned that as the HP laptops at work all have an option for UEFI only, Legacy only or UEFI and Legacy.

Oh, in my setup, it's "InsydeH20 Setup Utility -- Rev. 5.0" -- whatever all that means -- and on the System Configuration tab under Boot Options, Legacy Support is disabled (that's the default). So, in effect, that's UEFI only, I guess.

Yup, which means that it cannot boot a non uefi/gpt drive.

Okay, but I have a similar HP notebook, and the boot options are set up exactly the same, and Legacy Support is disabled, but the MX-17 flash drive boots fine on that computer.

#9 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:46 PM

Probably unrelated but I have also had some boot problems with MX-17 on an older HP laptop.
After an update the desktop didn't come up - just a blank screen. No way to get into the console either. I did a hard reset and went into the Advanced section of grub, selected MX-17 and got the desktop. I then did an update-grub in the terminal as root and that seemed to fix matters.
This is of course on an installed MX-17 not a Live USB.
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#10 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:54 PM

View Postsaturnian, on 21 January 2018 - 12:44 PM, said:

View Postsecuritybreach, on 21 January 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

View Postsaturnian, on 21 January 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

View Postsecuritybreach, on 21 January 2018 - 12:05 PM, said:

Well I only mentioned that as the HP laptops at work all have an option for UEFI only, Legacy only or UEFI and Legacy.

Oh, in my setup, it's "InsydeH20 Setup Utility -- Rev. 5.0" -- whatever all that means -- and on the System Configuration tab under Boot Options, Legacy Support is disabled (that's the default). So, in effect, that's UEFI only, I guess.

Yup, which means that it cannot boot a non uefi/gpt drive.

Okay, but I have a similar HP notebook, and the boot options are set up exactly the same, and Legacy Support is disabled, but the MX-17 flash drive boots fine on that computer.

I have no idea then
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#11 OFFLINE   saturnian

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:56 PM

Well, I guess it doesn't matter since I'm not trying to install MX-17. Just seems strange. MX is the first live session I try on any computer that comes my way, but it didn't work in this one case.

#12 OFFLINE   abarbarian

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 07:27 PM

I used to use Knoppix as my Live os but for the last few years I have been using MX's.

Not a fan at all of the buntu's as the ones I tried early on in my penguin life all had the task bar at the top of the screen an I just could not get on with that set up.

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#13 OFFLINE   Hedon James

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 10:51 AM

View Postabarbarian, on 21 January 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

I used to use Knoppix as my Live os but for the last few years I have been using MX's.

Not a fan at all of the buntu's as the ones I tried early on in my penguin life all had the task bar at the top of the screen an I just could not get on with that set up.

:breakfast:

Ironically, this is the very thing that pulled me into Linux (and Gnome2 desktop environments, specifically).  It was an "A-HA" moment for me that just made so much sense, IMO.  We read from top left to bottom right and the moment I saw it, it made years of Windows bottom left/up familiarity seem awkward and clumsy.  To this day, one of the first things I do to nearly every distro with the Windows bottom left/up paradigm is to move the taskbar to the top!

But everyone is different and I'm glad we can all change up the appearance/paradigm to whatever suits us individually, and accommodates our workflow.  The Gnome2 desktop may have pulled me in, but the ability to change just about everything to nearly anything I wanted it to be is the killer feature that has kept me.

In a world of vendor/hardware/software/ecosystem "lock-in", I am free to leave the linux ecosystem any time I choose, with little or nothing lost if I actually do so.  And yet I continue to choose to stay!  There's a lesson in there for those big, greedy corporations who believe the best way to capture market share is LITERALLY to capture customers and hold them hostage as long as possible...

#14 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 11:19 AM

I liked the top taskbar when I first got into Ubuntu GNOME 2 but now with wide screens I think the left side makes more sense. Ubuntu is still doing the left side config even though Unity is being phased out.
I'm not about to leave Linux either. I have 5 machines that run it, 2 that never ran anything but Linux and some old machines that would be scrap unless I had a light distro to run on them.
Besides the above, I certainly don't want all the expense and licence hassle to equip a Linux machine with Windows when I don't need to.
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#15 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 12:05 PM

I would never use anything but Linux. All other OSs run in VMs.
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#16 OFFLINE   abarbarian

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 01:31 PM

View PostHedon James, on 22 January 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

View Postabarbarian, on 21 January 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

I used to use Knoppix as my Live os but for the last few years I have been using MX's.

Not a fan at all of the buntu's as the ones I tried early on in my penguin life all had the task bar at the top of the screen an I just could not get on with that set up.

:breakfast:

Ironically, this is the very thing that pulled me into Linux (and Gnome2 desktop environments, specifically).  It was an "A-HA" moment for me that just made so much sense, IMO.  We read from top left to bottom right and the moment I saw it, it made years of Windows bottom left/up familiarity seem awkward and clumsy.  To this day, one of the first things I do to nearly every distro with the Windows bottom left/up paradigm is to move the taskbar to the top!

But everyone is different and I'm glad we can all change up the appearance/paradigm to whatever suits us individually, and accommodates our workflow.  The Gnome2 desktop may have pulled me in, but the ability to change just about everything to nearly anything I wanted it to be is the killer feature that has kept me.

In a world of vendor/hardware/software/ecosystem "lock-in", I am free to leave the linux ecosystem any time I choose, with little or nothing lost if I actually do so.  And yet I continue to choose to stay!  There's a lesson in there for those big, greedy corporations who believe the best way to capture market share is LITERALLY to capture customers and hold them hostage as long as possible...

Well the other matter that put me of buntu's was. I had done a ton of reading about how you could make your penguin box do anything you wanted it to before I gave one a try. So I made a cd with Ubuntu I think and whoa whooopee it booted and there I was with this unfamiliar penguin. With a task bar at the top of the screen. Hmm I thought I want that task bar on the bottom of the screen and set about trying to accomplish that. Read loads tried all sorts and could not get the darn thing to move to the bottom of the screen.
So I gave up and tried out Knoppix or Mandriva and heck there was the task bar at the bottom of the screen.
I found out later that you could not move the task bar in Ubuntu in those days or at least that was what I thought. Whatever it put me off the buntus and all the flame wars surrounding them put me of even more and I never really tried to have another look at them.
I found Window Maker and have been happy with it running on Arch and only try out other distros for fun. :breakfast:
Install ARCH
You'll never need to install it again
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#17 OFFLINE   saturnian

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 11:07 AM

View Postraymac46, on 22 January 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

I liked the top taskbar when I first got into Ubuntu GNOME 2 but now with wide screens I think the left side makes more sense.

I prefer left-side, vertical panels, too. I use them with Xfce and KDE Plasma, and with the tint2 panel in Openbox. I haven't been able to come up with a left-side, vertical configuration that I like for the toolbar in Fluxbox, so there I place it either at the top or at the bottom. (Between top and bottom, that doesn't matter so much to me anymore.) I could install a different panel to use in Fluxbox, but the Fluxbox toolbar (they call it "toolbar" instead of "panel") is kinda cool, so I'll just stick with it.

This week, I added Fluxbox to the Stretch GNOME installation on the new computer. I use copies of Fluxbox and Openbox config files from previous installations to work from when I'm adding either of those two WMs, and that really takes a lot of the hassle out of it. But with Fluxbox it's still very helpful (and, important) to refer to man fluxbox.

#18 OFFLINE   abarbarian

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 03:13 PM

Says a lot about a person where they have their task bar I recon.

Top horizontals = head always up in the clouds dreaming.

Bottom horizontals = laid back almost lazy dreamers.

Vertical right or left = upright go getters, folk who make things happen.

:whistling:
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#19 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 04:16 PM

View Postabarbarian, on 29 January 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

Says a lot about a person where they have their task bar I recon.

Top horizontals = head always up in the clouds dreaming.

Bottom horizontals = laid back almost lazy dreamers.

Vertical right or left = upright go getters, folk who make things happen.

:whistling:

Well what about the people like me who do not use one at all???
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#20 OFFLINE   Hedon James

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 05:45 PM

View Postsecuritybreach, on 29 January 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

View Postabarbarian, on 29 January 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

Says a lot about a person where they have their task bar I recon.

Top horizontals = head always up in the clouds dreaming.

Bottom horizontals = laid back almost lazy dreamers.

Vertical right or left = upright go getters, folk who make things happen.

:whistling:

Well what about the people like me who do not use one at all???

Rebel, Anarchist...refuses to abide by so-called "conventions" established by others.  :pirate:

Edited by Hedon James, 29 January 2018 - 05:45 PM.


#21 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 05:48 PM

View PostHedon James, on 29 January 2018 - 05:45 PM, said:

View Postsecuritybreach, on 29 January 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

View Postabarbarian, on 29 January 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

Says a lot about a person where they have their task bar I recon.

Top horizontals = head always up in the clouds dreaming.

Bottom horizontals = laid back almost lazy dreamers.

Vertical right or left = upright go getters, folk who make things happen.

:whistling:

Well what about the people like me who do not use one at all???

Rebel, Anarchist...refuses to abide by so-called "conventions" established by others.  :pirate:

Tiling WMs for the win!! B)
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#22 OFFLINE   sunrat

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 08:31 PM

View Postabarbarian, on 29 January 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

Says a lot about a person where they have their task bar I recon.

Top horizontals = head always up in the clouds dreaming.

Bottom horizontals = laid back almost lazy dreamers.

Vertical right or left = upright go getters, folk who make things happen.

:whistling:
I have mine at bottom in siduction and left side in MX. Does that make me a lazy dreamer who makes things happen? :hmm:  :wacko:  :lol:
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#23 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 12:13 PM

I just go for the defaults. I guess I'm an unimaginative conformist. :harhar:
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#24 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 12:19 PM

View Postraymac46, on 30 January 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:

I just go for the defaults. I guess I'm an unimaginative conformist. :harhar:

Well on Arch, that would be a blank terminal on tty1.
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#25 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 12:45 PM

Oh I go all out in Arch. Even installed xfce-goodies and a display manager. :w00tx100:
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