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Arch installed system boots from install CD but not by itself

arch linux boot grub

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#1 OFFLINE   amenditman

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:14 PM

Just installed ArchLinux on a laptop and it will boot if I start from the install CD and choose "Boot existing OS" option. But I cannot get it to boot any other way. Obviously, Grub is not being detected and the Bios falls back to the boot options menu. When I choose the hard drive from that list it tries but comes back to the list every time.

Basic configuration
BIOS
GPT
bios-boot partition in sectors 34-2047 as recommended

Can't figure this out and I've been trying most of last night and today. Reading all wiki pages and install guides, searching forums and google.
I'm just not asking the right questions! >_<

I'm considering re-installing and going UEFI, GPT, EFI System Partition (ESP) but don't want to.

Any suggestions?

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#2 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 03:29 PM

is the partition boot flag set (to boot)?

a bootable gparted cd will quickly display that info in its gui.
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#3 OFFLINE   amenditman

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 03:42 PM

No, the flag set by
grub-install
command on the bios-boot partition is "bios-grub".

I will do a quick experiment and change it to "boot".
What's the worst that can happen? It won't boot. Already there!

Edited by amenditman, 20 March 2013 - 03:45 PM.

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#4 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:52 PM

I doubt setting the boot flag will make any difference. I run multiple operating systems on all my machines. Only the primary OS has a boot flag on its partition, yet all of mine boot fine using GRUB or LILO.

#5 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:56 PM

I'm thinking you have a bad install. Does the Arch CD boot that newly-installed system with the kernel from the CD? Or the installed kernel? If it's booting the installed OS with the CD kernel, that's why it's working. Try booting the new install with a Parted Magic or SuperGRUB disk instead.

#6 OFFLINE   amenditman

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:02 PM

The install boots fine with it's own kernel. I think the problem is in the way bios is trying to load Grub.
The CD's bootloader is finding it and passing the boot to it but the bios is not.

I just can't think of why.

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#7 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:04 PM

GRUB Legacy or 2?

#8 OFFLINE   amenditman

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:09 PM

Grub2 in ArchLinux

I've been reading all about UEFI and UEFI bootloaders, what a mess. Maybe in a few years this will be more standardised.

Tweak it 'til it breaks, then learn how to fix it.

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#9 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:23 PM

Hmm... well, I'm not the GRUB2 'spert around here, so...

#10 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:24 PM

Choose the "Existing OS" option. Then after boot, open up a terminal and reinstall grub (as root):
# grub-install /dev/sda

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#11 OFFLINE   amenditman

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:51 PM

View Postsecuritybreach, on 20 March 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

Choose the "Existing OS" option. Then after boot, open up a terminal and reinstall grub (as root):
# grub-install /dev/sda

Unfortunately, that does not change anything.
Reboot takes me to the bios "Boot Menu" and the hdd option fails and returns to boot menu.

It's beautiful when it boots from the Install Disk, but there is no optical drive so it won't work even as a temporary wok around.
:bangin: Beating head against wall. :rant:

Edited by amenditman, 20 March 2013 - 11:53 PM.

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#12 OFFLINE   amenditman

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:22 PM

Well, here we are, another day wasted chasing this down and no solution.

Giving up!

Re-installing using UEFI, not bios. Hope it goes smoother than the bios-gpt install.

Tweak it 'til it breaks, then learn how to fix it.

L.I.F.E. (Linux Is For Everyone)

Registered Linux User # 474004 (06/16/2008)


REGLUE

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#13 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:20 PM

Sometimes, you just gotta' nuke 'em. :w00t:

#14 OFFLINE   amenditman

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:04 AM

Posted Image

Dropped a big one from orbit.

Nothing survived. :hysterical:

Edited by V.T. Eric Layton, 22 March 2013 - 09:18 AM.
Fixed image. ~Eric

Tweak it 'til it breaks, then learn how to fix it.

L.I.F.E. (Linux Is For Everyone)

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#15 OFFLINE   crp

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:48 AM

I had loads of problems with Suse and PC-BSD installing but not booting (i posted here about it) , yet installing Debian worked fine.
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. ~C. S. Lewis

#16 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:55 AM

View Postamenditman, on 21 March 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

Re-installing using UEFI, not bios. Hope it goes smoother than the bios-gpt install.

Why did you use bios-gpt instead of grub-bios? I used grub-bios and it worked beautifully for me.
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"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#17 OFFLINE   amenditman

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:09 AM

grub-bios was what the partition type was labeled after setting up the bios boot  using gdisk and type ef02.
When I wrote "bios-gpt" I meant that I used bios, as opposed to Uefi, and gpt, as opposed to Mbr.

I've done this before and had zero to minimal problems, this time some weird thing was wrong.
I couldn't track it down, I couldn't find anything the same on the forum, and google didn't have anything just like it either.
It was probably just a bad install. (Or maybe, I had no clue as to how to phrase my search) :drooling:

Re-installed last night and set it up using: UEFI, GPT, GRUB2 and all went well.
Not as straight forward as a bios setup.
Some of the instructions on the ArchWiki were a little vague and required reading between the lines.

In particular the section where it describes the exact method of installing and configuring grub-install and grub-mkconfig. There are so many variable ways to do it and they are both all jumbled together and spread over several different wiki articles. I had to separate out the lines for my particular install and save them to a document to avoid confusion. Even so, some of the syntax was still not right and the only way I figured it out was reading the UEFI page, UEFI Bootloaders page, the GUID Partition Table page, and the GRUB2 page all at the same time. Referring back and forth between them until I found the part that was missing from one and applied to the other.

It was FUN! >_<

Tweak it 'til it breaks, then learn how to fix it.

L.I.F.E. (Linux Is For Everyone)

Registered Linux User # 474004 (06/16/2008)


REGLUE

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Reglue, in a nutshell, gives free Linux computers to under privileged children and their families.

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#18 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:18 AM

Yup. You dropped a big one, but your hotlinked image failed. I fixed. :)

View Postamenditman, on 22 March 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:


Nothing survived. :hysterical:

Except roaches.

#19 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:51 AM

What I was trying to say was that I use grub-bios and installed to the MBR versus GPT: https://wiki.archlin...ub-bios_package

Grub-bios is really simple (it is just a bootloader after all) and only requires 4 commands to install:
# pacman -S grub-bios
# modprobe dm-mod
# grub-install --recheck /dev/sda
# grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg

Unless you just need UEFI and GPT for a particular reason, it is not required for a basic setup.
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"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#20 OFFLINE   amenditman

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 10:16 AM

View Postsecuritybreach, on 22 March 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

What I was trying to say was that I use grub-bios and installed to the MBR versus GPT: https://wiki.archlin...ub-bios_package

Grub-bios is really simple (it is just a bootloader after all) and only requires 4 commands to install:
# pacman -S grub-bios
# modprobe dm-mod
# grub-install --recheck /dev/sda
# grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg

Unless you just need UEFI and GPT for a particular reason, it is not required for a basic setup.
That is the procedure for installing Grub in a bios and gpt partitioned disk also, Exactly what I did, and it failed to load grub from the bios. But it would load from the "boot from installed os" on the install CD.

Like I said, it was weird.

Tweak it 'til it breaks, then learn how to fix it.

L.I.F.E. (Linux Is For Everyone)

Registered Linux User # 474004 (06/16/2008)


REGLUE

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Reglue, in a nutshell, gives free Linux computers to under privileged children and their families.

www.reglue.org


#21 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 11:21 AM

Well the difference between mine and yours is the GPT partitions. I did not use them and that is why I was mentioned it.
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"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#22 OFFLINE   Temmu

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 11:24 AM

View Postamenditman, on 22 March 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

Some of the instructions on the ArchWiki were a little vague and required reading between the lines.
...There are so many variable ways to do it and they are both all jumbled together and spread over several different wiki articles....Referring back and forth between them until I found the part that was missing from one and applied to the other.

It was FUN! >_<

glad it is up!

when i made those comments i was directed to try another distro.

however, i'm not afraid to call a spade a spade, or point out poor documentation.
because the linux community is smaller, and people who "don't know" are universally despised,
the documentation on almost all areas is missing valuable chunks. (there aren't enough good writers & those that might be won't because you "should know")

it's not my opinion only, the rest of the community knows that too.

ps
as i type, someone has posted.
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#23 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:42 PM

Well luckily the Archwiki is pretty extensive and covers most everything but there are some things that could be a bit clearer. Also, you are always welcome to edit wiki pages if you feel something is missing or could be better explained....
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"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#24 OFFLINE   amenditman

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:57 PM

View Postsecuritybreach, on 22 March 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Well luckily the Archwiki is pretty extensive and covers most everything but there are some things that could be a bit clearer. Also, you are always welcome to edit wiki pages if you feel something is missing or could be better explained....
I was working on just that, to help clear up the confusion. Those pages I mention have so much overlap, it's amazing there aren't more problems with them.

Tweak it 'til it breaks, then learn how to fix it.

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#25 OFFLINE   crp

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 06:26 PM

View PostTemmu, on 22 March 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

[...]
however, i'm not afraid to call a spade a spade, or point out poor documentation.
because the linux community is smaller, and people who "don't know" are universally despised,
the documentation on almost all areas is missing valuable chunks. (there aren't enough good writers & those that might be won't because you "should know")
[...]
In agreement here and I wish the *nix community wouldn't be so defensive about it. I think it was in the past year that someone posted a stern rebuke on this forum to the *nix documentators that by and large instructions are awful. And that poster got slammed.
[rant] But sheesh, majority of instructions are awful and most documentation is inadequate or wrong.
And it is not a 'computer thing', it is *nix thing to prove some sort of geekiness. Often I think it is really laziness.[/rant]
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. ~C. S. Lewis





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