Jump to content


I'm Really Starting to Dig Debian


  • Please log in to reply
60 replies to this topic

#51 OFFLINE   raymac46

raymac46

    Discussion Deity

  • Forum MVP
  • 3,329 posts

Posted 27 May 2017 - 08:13 PM

I wasn't able to find any way to install Debian unstable directly. The minimum netinstall ISOs I found were basically pointing to Stretch. I installed in VirtualBox and after I dist-upgraded to unstable, I had trouble with the Guest Additions. After Guest Additions installation the display manager LightDM locked up and I could not enter my name and password. Guest Additions work fine with Stretch itself.
My experiences with Siduction had the Guest Additions working right out of the box but with Debian you have to build them using the ISO image that comes with VBox itself. That is always a tricky thing to get right.
Bottom line if you want to play around with Debian unstable in VirtualBox, Siduction is the way to go.
@sunrat I hear you about the mess of updates coming to testing after Stretch becomes stable. Another reason to switch to unstable. Testing may give you a bit more stability but at the expense of delayed security fixes and freezing around the time of a new stable release.
Posted Image

Registered Linux User 445659

#52 OFFLINE   saturnian

saturnian

    Topic Cop

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 988 posts

Posted 27 May 2017 - 11:53 PM

I think I'll just stick with my approach.

For Debian, I use only Stable on my main computer. For my other Debian installations, I'll switch to Testing, but I wait until some weeks after the freeze to do that (and I don't leave "testing" in my sources.list -- this time around, for example, I switched that to "stretch" right away).

And I don't even bother playing around with Unstable (aka "Sid"). For me, it's better to run Arch instead.

#53 OFFLINE   raymac46

raymac46

    Discussion Deity

  • Forum MVP
  • 3,329 posts

Posted 28 May 2017 - 06:45 AM

Quote

I think I'll just stick with my approach.
A very good approach if you ask me, I'm not doing this bleeding edge stuff where it matters. My main machine runs Linux Mint 18.
Ironically I've found that a "stable" distro makes more sense in VirtualBox where you would normally want to experiment.
The current Siduction release removes the VBox Guest Additions during the install process so you have to reinstall them. Whether you do this before or after the update you run into the same bug in LightDM and you cannot enter your ID and password. So far this only affects Sid as Stretch is working well.
VirtualBox is one of those "canary in the coal mine" types of apps. If a distro works fine in VBox you can be pretty sure it'll be OK in real life. If it doesn't it may still be OK on the rails but more research might be needed before adopting it as "production" distro.
Siduction can really bite you here because the Live ISO works great. It's only after an install, reinstall of the Guest Additions and a large upgrade that the issue surfaces. You'd probably be fine with Plasma or GNOME in VBox because they use a different Display Manager.

Edited by raymac46, 28 May 2017 - 06:47 AM.

Posted Image

Registered Linux User 445659

#54 OFFLINE   raymac46

raymac46

    Discussion Deity

  • Forum MVP
  • 3,329 posts

Posted 28 May 2017 - 10:16 AM

Well I tried Siduction KDE edition in VBox and it didn't work either after the updates and Guest Additions install. So I think it's probably some issue between the Guest Additions modules and kernel 4.10.X
I could boot Siduction using an older 4.10 kernel that didn't have the Guest Additions installed but as soon as I installed them and built the modules - lockup.
I have seen these sort of issues before in VBox and the best thing to do is just delete the VM and move on. Eventually Oracle and Linux get things resolved. It's never worth it trying to troubleshoot a Virtual Machine.

Edited by raymac46, 28 May 2017 - 10:17 AM.

Posted Image

Registered Linux User 445659

#55 OFFLINE   securitybreach

securitybreach

    CLI Phreak

  • Forum Admins
  • 22,981 posts

Posted 29 May 2017 - 07:45 AM

That is why it is much easier to simply use libvirt/qemu instead of virtualbox as you do not have to worry about guest additions and sucror it to work correctly. You can even get it to use your actual hardware instead of virtual devices and such.

Personally I like using the virt-manager gui as it is very easy to configure the vm without using command line switches and such. Plus you can connect to virt-manager over ssh (useful for a headless server running a bunch of VMs).
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image
CNI Radio/G+ Profile/Configs/PGP Key/comhack π

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#56 OFFLINE   raymac46

raymac46

    Discussion Deity

  • Forum MVP
  • 3,329 posts

Posted 29 May 2017 - 08:13 AM

Most of the time VirtualBox does the trick for me and I can use it in Windows to have a Linux system available.
The problems I have had with lockups etc. usually get sorted out. For example Antergos runs kernel 4.11 and it's working just fine in VBox as is anything with kernel 4.9. Go figure.I think to really get the most out of libvirt/qemu you need a Linux host which I don't always have.
I can see in your case with a bunch of virtual servers libvirt/qemu would be the best choice.
Posted Image

Registered Linux User 445659

#57 OFFLINE   raymac46

raymac46

    Discussion Deity

  • Forum MVP
  • 3,329 posts

Posted 31 May 2017 - 12:01 PM

Well Antergos in VBox didn't survive the latest kernel update either. Crash after reboot - black screen. I switched back to Manjaro and I'm using the LTS 4.9 kernel without incident (so far.) But I still wonder if it's wise to run bleeding edge rolling release distros in VBox. I suppose it doesn't really matter since you can just blow them away and reinstall in a few minutes.
I'm sure this has more to do with VirtualBox than it does with the distro in question. I have Arch running in real life on my old Toshiba netbook and it's very stable.

Edited by raymac46, 31 May 2017 - 12:03 PM.

Posted Image

Registered Linux User 445659

#58 OFFLINE   saturnian

saturnian

    Topic Cop

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 988 posts

Posted 01 June 2017 - 12:51 AM

View Postraymac46, on 31 May 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

Well Antergos in VBox didn't survive the latest kernel update either. Crash after reboot - black screen. I switched back to Manjaro and I'm using the LTS 4.9 kernel without incident (so far.) But I still wonder if it's wise to run bleeding edge rolling release distros in VBox. I suppose it doesn't really matter since you can just blow them away and reinstall in a few minutes.
I'm sure this has more to do with VirtualBox than it does with the distro in question. I have Arch running in real life on my old Toshiba netbook and it's very stable.

Dang. Still mostly smooth-sailing with Antergos here, except for the antergos-keyring issue that I had to fix this past weekend (the issue was discussed in this thread).

But of course I'm not running Antergos in VirtualBox. I wonder if that's common -- a kernel update in a distro in VirtualBox resulting in problems.

Also -- and this is unrelated to what happened with you -- one thing I do now with rolling-release distros (Arch, Antergos) that I do differently than with something like Debian is that I only use something like Xfce or Openbox. I think that by doing that, there's less potential for breakage after bringing in updates.

Otherwise, I'm just chllin' and waiting for the final release of Debian Stretch in a few weeks. I have Stretch on two computers but I'm sticking with Jessie on my "primary" machine. That one gets only Stable. Part of me want to just hang on to Jessie for a few months, even. That probably won't happen. Still, that Jessie installation seems perfectly fine, no real need to blow it away just yet.

#59 OFFLINE   securitybreach

securitybreach

    CLI Phreak

  • Forum Admins
  • 22,981 posts

Posted 01 June 2017 - 06:02 AM

View Postsaturnian, on 01 June 2017 - 12:51 AM, said:

But of course I'm not running Antergos in VirtualBox. I wonder if that's common -- a kernel update in a distro in VirtualBox resulting in problems.

Also -- and this is unrelated to what happened with you -- one thing I do now with rolling-release distros (Arch, Antergos) that I do differently than with something like Debian is that I only use something like Xfce or Openbox. I think that by doing that, there's less potential for breakage after bringing in updates.

Well I wouldn't think it was common at all since I have Antegros and about 15 other distros running as VMs without any issues. I just updated the Antegros VM yesterday without any issues.
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image
CNI Radio/G+ Profile/Configs/PGP Key/comhack π

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#60 OFFLINE   raymac46

raymac46

    Discussion Deity

  • Forum MVP
  • 3,329 posts

Posted 01 June 2017 - 06:39 AM

I think it's the fact that with VirtualBox you have the Guest Additions which are actual kernel modules. When the kernel gets updated or in some cases customized by the distro the Guest Addition modules can get borked. Most of the issues I've had deal with getting X going or the keyboard not responding which to me looks like a Guest Additions problem. The next VBox update may fix things for a while.
@Josh you mentioned that virt/qemu works directly with your hardware and does not have Guest Additions so likely you'll never have these problems.
Posted Image

Registered Linux User 445659

#61 OFFLINE   securitybreach

securitybreach

    CLI Phreak

  • Forum Admins
  • 22,981 posts

Posted 01 June 2017 - 08:00 AM

View Postraymac46, on 01 June 2017 - 06:39 AM, said:

I think it's the fact that with VirtualBox you have the Guest Additions which are actual kernel modules. When the kernel gets updated or in some cases customized by the distro the Guest Addition modules can get borked. Most of the issues I've had deal with getting X going or the keyboard not responding which to me looks like a Guest Additions problem. The next VBox update may fix things for a while.
@Josh you mentioned that virt/qemu works directly with your hardware and does not have Guest Additions so likely you'll never have these problems.

Ah ok, yeah. Sorry it is a bit early here so my reply was made with a foggy head...
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image
CNI Radio/G+ Profile/Configs/PGP Key/comhack π

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users