Jump to content


Would Like your Thoughts and Advise on SSD's

ssd solid state digital disks

  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   mhbell

mhbell

    Posting Prodigy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,212 posts

Posted 07 July 2018 - 11:17 AM

all of my computers now have SSD's in them. I was reading an interesting article that stated Ubuntu which Mint is a derivative of does not support for Trim by default. When I did a manual Trim command on my Main SSD with Mint 18.3 installed. I was surprised that it trimmed 17.6 GB. I also read that with enough ram a swap file is not needed and your ssd will last longer and perform better without one. So I bought a 500 GB SSD and installed it last night. I installed Mint 19 on it without a swap file. Using GPT formating with a EFI partition Fat32 500 MB a ROOT partition of 25 GB and a Home Partition of 75 GB I have 16 GB of Ram. I am using it right now as I write this. All Opinions, and Advise is Welcome.
Mel
:unsure:
Registered Linux User #239772
Mint 18.1 Cinnimon, MX-16, Siduction LXQT, Debian Stretch, and Other Linux Distro's
https://pctechman.wordpress.com/

#2 OFFLINE   securitybreach

securitybreach

    CLI Phreak

  • Forum Admins
  • 23,889 posts

Posted 07 July 2018 - 11:47 AM

Personally I would always use Trim and turn swap off. Now the original scare tactics were a bit off as far as the write limitation. There is a limitation but its like 10 years or so of continuous writing.

Quote

The write limits are talking about doing a  consider a full disk write (or multiple) per day, per years. Something that is extremely stressing. And usually, drives fails much more further on the line than when they are "supposed" to considering their writing limits.

Quote

However, high end SSDs like Samsung's 850 PRO can survive insane writes - https://packet.company/blog/ did a test and had a 1TB 850 PRO survive 7PB of writes.

https://linustechtip...sd-write-limit/
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image
CNI Radio/G+ Profile/Configs/PGP Key/comhack π

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#3 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

V.T. Eric Layton

    Nocturnal Slacker

  • Forum Admins
  • 21,503 posts

Posted 07 July 2018 - 11:54 AM

My thoughts on SSDs is that I think I would like to have some. :)

#4 OFFLINE   zlim

zlim

    It's me, plodr

  • Forum MVP
  • 7,139 posts

Posted 07 July 2018 - 12:07 PM

I went searching for something linux specific about a swap file.
These might be interesting
https://haydenjames....add-swap-space/
https://chrisdown.na...ce-of-swap.html
https://itsfoss.com/swap-size/
Liz
Registered Linux User # 401459
Posted Image

#5 OFFLINE   securitybreach

securitybreach

    CLI Phreak

  • Forum Admins
  • 23,889 posts

Posted 07 July 2018 - 12:26 PM

View Postzlim, on 07 July 2018 - 12:07 PM, said:

I went searching for something linux specific about a swap file.
These might be interesting
https://haydenjames....add-swap-space/
https://chrisdown.na...ce-of-swap.html
https://itsfoss.com/swap-size/

As pointed out in your second link, swap is not needed for SSDs.
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image
CNI Radio/G+ Profile/Configs/PGP Key/comhack π

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#6 OFFLINE   abarbarian

abarbarian

    Thread Kahuna

  • Forum MVP
  • 5,626 posts

Posted 07 July 2018 - 12:39 PM

The SSD Endurance Experiment: They're all dead


This is the end, beautiful friend


Quote

Experiment with intent to kill
Before we get to the end, we have to start at the beginning. If you're unfamiliar with the experiment, this introductory article provides a comprehensive look at our test systems and methods. We'll only indulge a quick run-down of the details here.
Our solid-state death march was designed to test the limited write tolerance inherent to all NAND flash memory. This breed of non-volatile storage retains data by trapping electrons inside of nanoscale memory cells. A process called tunneling is used to move electrons in and out of the cells, but the back-and-forth traffic erodes the physical structure of the cell, leading to breaches that can render it useless.
Electrons also get stuck in the cell wall, where their associated negative charges complicate the process of reading and writing data. This accumulation of stray electrons eventually compromises the cell's ability to retain data reliably—and to access it quickly. Three-bit TLC NAND differentiates between more values within the cell's possible voltage range, making it more sensitive to electron build-up than two-bit MLC NAND.

A very neat and informative experiment. The reality is you will probably not live long enough to wear out your ssd. :breakfast:

Starting at the beginning of this tale is well worth the time.

Introducing the SSD Endurance Experiment

Just how long do they last, anyway?


Update: The 22TB results are in. So far, so good.
Update: After 200TB, we're starting to see the first signs of weakness.
Update: The drives have passed the 300TB mark, and we've added an unpowered retention test to see how well they retain data when unplugged.
Update: Our subjects have crossed the half-petabyte threshold, and they're still going strong.
Update: All is well after 600TB of writes—and after a longer-term data retention test.
Update: We've now written one petabyte of data, and half the drives are dead.
Update: The SSDs are now up to 1.5PB—or two of them are, anyway. The last 500TB claimed another victim.
Update: The experiment has reached two freaking petabytes of writes. Amazingly, our remaining survivors are still standing.
Update: They're all dead! Read the experiment's final chapter right here.

B)

Edited by abarbarian, 07 July 2018 - 01:09 PM.

Install ARCH
You'll never need to install it again
"I did and I'm really happy"

Posted Image~~~~~~~~~~~~~Posted Image

#7 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

V.T. Eric Layton

    Nocturnal Slacker

  • Forum Admins
  • 21,503 posts

Posted 07 July 2018 - 04:08 PM

View Postsecuritybreach, on 07 July 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

View Postzlim, on 07 July 2018 - 12:07 PM, said:

I went searching for something linux specific about a swap file.
These might be interesting
https://haydenjames....add-swap-space/
https://chrisdown.na...ce-of-swap.html
https://itsfoss.com/swap-size/

As pointed out in your second link, swap is not needed for SSDs.

Swap pretty much isn't needed when you have 16Gig RAM either. ;)

#8 OFFLINE   securitybreach

securitybreach

    CLI Phreak

  • Forum Admins
  • 23,889 posts

Posted 07 July 2018 - 04:26 PM

View PostV.T. Eric Layton, on 07 July 2018 - 04:08 PM, said:

View Postsecuritybreach, on 07 July 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

View Postzlim, on 07 July 2018 - 12:07 PM, said:

I went searching for something linux specific about a swap file.
These might be interesting
https://haydenjames....add-swap-space/
https://chrisdown.na...ce-of-swap.html
https://itsfoss.com/swap-size/

As pointed out in your second link, swap is not needed for SSDs.

Swap pretty much isn't needed when you have 16Gig RAM either. ;)

Or 64gb ;)
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image
CNI Radio/G+ Profile/Configs/PGP Key/comhack π

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#9 OFFLINE   mhbell

mhbell

    Posting Prodigy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,212 posts

Posted 07 July 2018 - 04:32 PM

Well I made some space for a swap file and put it in the fstab will use swapoff and if I have a problem I can always turn it back on using swapon. I have always used a swap file, but I am looking to protect my SSD's and better performance. Seems that almost any new major Distro / Upgrade is bloated or slower. Mint 18.3 is a lot faster on my computer than Mint 19. maybe my computer needs a upgrade, I know I do. LoL :fish:
Registered Linux User #239772
Mint 18.1 Cinnimon, MX-16, Siduction LXQT, Debian Stretch, and Other Linux Distro's
https://pctechman.wordpress.com/

#10 OFFLINE   securitybreach

securitybreach

    CLI Phreak

  • Forum Admins
  • 23,889 posts

Posted 07 July 2018 - 04:35 PM

:thumbsup:
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image
CNI Radio/G+ Profile/Configs/PGP Key/comhack π

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#11 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

V.T. Eric Layton

    Nocturnal Slacker

  • Forum Admins
  • 21,503 posts

Posted 07 July 2018 - 04:53 PM

Wasn't there some Christmas gift from Ronco like that one time...

Swapon, Swapoff... the Swapper!

#12 OFFLINE   raymac46

raymac46

    Discussion Deity

  • Forum MVP
  • 3,811 posts

Posted 07 July 2018 - 08:33 PM

My main Linux driver has both an SSD and a rotational HDD, so I just put the swap on the mechanical drive. I agree with 16 GB of RAM you won't use it much (if ever.)
Posted Image

Registered Linux User 445659

#13 OFFLINE   securitybreach

securitybreach

    CLI Phreak

  • Forum Admins
  • 23,889 posts

Posted 07 July 2018 - 08:37 PM

View Postraymac46, on 07 July 2018 - 08:33 PM, said:

My main Linux driver has both an SSD and a rotational HDD, so I just put the swap on the mechanical drive.

I do the same as SSDs are too expensive for storage. On my main rig, I use a 250gb SSD for my OS install and then have 8 spinning drives for storage.
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image
CNI Radio/G+ Profile/Configs/PGP Key/comhack π

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#14 OFFLINE   raymac46

raymac46

    Discussion Deity

  • Forum MVP
  • 3,811 posts

Posted 07 July 2018 - 09:11 PM

I do have a low memory netbook which has a cheap Sandisk SSD. I put a 2 GB swap partition on it but it doesn't get used all that much in normal operation. The SSD cost around $60, I don't use the netbook for serious production and frankly I think the whole paranoia about SSD write life is overblown. I expect the SSD to outlive the rest of the hardware.
Posted Image

Registered Linux User 445659

#15 OFFLINE   sunrat

sunrat

    Thread Kahuna

  • Forum Moderators
  • 5,678 posts

Posted 07 July 2018 - 09:11 PM

Current instructions for SSDs:
1. Plug in
2. Use

Forget all the old advice about trim and swap. SSDs now will possibly last longer than all the other components. A couple of simple tweaks are probably worth doing though -

Personally I put noatime in fstab for partitions mainly because I don't need to know atime. It reduces writes a lot. My prehistoric 7 year old OCZ Vertex2 SSD has always had a swap partition on it. No problems.
It's also said to be helpful to run fstrim once a week (rather than add "discard" to mount options as was previously advised). Your system probably comes with a systemd service that will run it. Check it's active:
root@siduction-brain2:/home/roger# systemctl status fstrim.timer
● fstrim.timer - Discard unused blocks once a week
Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/fstrim.timer; enabled; vendor preset: enabled)
Active: active (waiting) since Sun 2018-07-08 11:20:34 AEST; 14s ago
Trigger: Mon 2018-07-09 00:00:00 AEST; 12h left
	 Docs: man:fstrim
It shows it's scheduled to run at midnight tonight.
Actually this thread prompted me to check and I found it was disabled. :o
Enable it like so:
# systemctl enable fstrim.timer
# systemctl start fstrim.timer

registered Linux user number 324659  ||    The importance of Reading The *Fine* Manual! :D
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
For the things we have to learn before we can do them, we learn by doing them.

#16 OFFLINE   securitybreach

securitybreach

    CLI Phreak

  • Forum Admins
  • 23,889 posts

Posted 07 July 2018 - 09:21 PM

Well I think that TRIM is still very useful for SSDs: https://en.wikipedia...Trim_(computing)
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image
CNI Radio/G+ Profile/Configs/PGP Key/comhack π

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#17 OFFLINE   sunrat

sunrat

    Thread Kahuna

  • Forum Moderators
  • 5,678 posts

Posted 07 July 2018 - 09:37 PM

View Postsecuritybreach, on 07 July 2018 - 09:21 PM, said:

Well I think that TRIM is still very useful for SSDs: https://en.wikipedia...Trim_(computing)
Indeed. I just edited my post to say that. when I said to forget old advice about trim, I meant the old advice of adding "discard" to fstab. Running fstrim periodically is definitely advantageous.
registered Linux user number 324659  ||    The importance of Reading The *Fine* Manual! :D
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
For the things we have to learn before we can do them, we learn by doing them.

#18 OFFLINE   securitybreach

securitybreach

    CLI Phreak

  • Forum Admins
  • 23,889 posts

Posted 08 July 2018 - 08:03 AM

:thumbsup:
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image
CNI Radio/G+ Profile/Configs/PGP Key/comhack π

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#19 OFFLINE   Hedon James

Hedon James

    Topic Cop

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 863 posts

Posted 08 July 2018 - 08:52 AM

View Postsecuritybreach, on 07 July 2018 - 08:37 PM, said:

View Postraymac46, on 07 July 2018 - 08:33 PM, said:

My main Linux driver has both an SSD and a rotational HDD, so I just put the swap on the mechanical drive.

I do the same as SSDs are too expensive for storage. On my main rig, I use a 250gb SSD for my OS install and then have 8 spinning drives for storage.

Agreed.  Same here.  I'd only add that, data storage doesn't really need the "speed" access that SSDs provide.  I will, however, spring for the upgrade to a 7200 rpm platter vs a 5400 rpm platter.  Life is too short to be waiting on 5400 rpms!  LOL!

#20 OFFLINE   securitybreach

securitybreach

    CLI Phreak

  • Forum Admins
  • 23,889 posts

Posted 08 July 2018 - 09:03 AM

View PostHedon James, on 08 July 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

View Postsecuritybreach, on 07 July 2018 - 08:37 PM, said:

View Postraymac46, on 07 July 2018 - 08:33 PM, said:

My main Linux driver has both an SSD and a rotational HDD, so I just put the swap on the mechanical drive.

I do the same as SSDs are too expensive for storage. On my main rig, I use a 250gb SSD for my OS install and then have 8 spinning drives for storage.

Agreed.  Same here.  I'd only add that, data storage doesn't really need the "speed" access that SSDs provide.  I will, however, spring for the upgrade to a 7200 rpm platter vs a 5400 rpm platter.  Life is too short to be waiting on 5400 rpms!  LOL!

Well for media, 5400 rpm works fine although most all of mine are 7200. I do have two 15,000 rpm drives but they are only 1tb.
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image
CNI Radio/G+ Profile/Configs/PGP Key/comhack π

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#21 OFFLINE   mhbell

mhbell

    Posting Prodigy

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,212 posts

Posted 08 July 2018 - 10:31 AM

View Postsecuritybreach, on 08 July 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

View PostHedon James, on 08 July 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

View Postsecuritybreach, on 07 July 2018 - 08:37 PM, said:

View Postraymac46, on 07 July 2018 - 08:33 PM, said:

My main Linux driver has both an SSD and a rotational HDD, so I just put the swap on the mechanical drive.

I do the same as SSDs are too expensive for storage. On my main rig, I use a 250gb SSD for my OS install and then have 8 spinning drives for storage.

Agreed.  Same here.  I'd only add that, data storage doesn't really need the "speed" access that SSDs provide.  I will, however, spring for the upgrade to a 7200 rpm platter vs a 5400 rpm platter.  Life is too short to be waiting on 5400 rpms!  LOL!

Well for media, 5400 rpm works fine although most all of mine are 7200. I do have two 15,000 rpm drives but they are only 1tb.
Well I use a USB external Hard drive of 3 TB for all storage. 3 partitions on it One Linux EXT 4, one Fat 32 and one NTFS I have trim set to run daily on all SSD disks.
Mel
Registered Linux User #239772
Mint 18.1 Cinnimon, MX-16, Siduction LXQT, Debian Stretch, and Other Linux Distro's
https://pctechman.wordpress.com/

#22 OFFLINE   abarbarian

abarbarian

    Thread Kahuna

  • Forum MVP
  • 5,626 posts

Posted 08 July 2018 - 11:19 AM

View Postsecuritybreach, on 07 July 2018 - 09:21 PM, said:

Well I think that TRIM is still very useful for SSDs: https://en.wikipedia...Trim_(computing)

This thread made me look at my set up and it seems that Arch has some systemd units which will run fstrim automatically once enabled. Either they come enabled on a fresh install or I have done that at some time as they are running on my Arch. Other os's with systemd  will probably have  the same or similar facilities I guess.

https://wiki.archlin...e#Periodic_TRIM

I run Windows 7 and Arch on a 256 GB Samsung SP951 nvme, with several 256 GB ssd's for game storage and have an external usb 3 dual dock that I use with Samsung 500 GB F3 drives for backups and extra storage.
Using a external dock meant that I could reuse all my old hdd's which is neat.

:breakfast:

Oh and I have a small  2 GB SWAP on my main drive just as a precaution as all the info baffled me a tad as to whether or not to have one. Doubt if I will ever use it as I have 32 GB of ram, but you never know.

Edited by abarbarian, 08 July 2018 - 11:22 AM.

Install ARCH
You'll never need to install it again
"I did and I'm really happy"

Posted Image~~~~~~~~~~~~~Posted Image

#23 OFFLINE   securitybreach

securitybreach

    CLI Phreak

  • Forum Admins
  • 23,889 posts

Posted 08 July 2018 - 11:26 AM

Nice Abarbarian :thumbsup:
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image
CNI Radio/G+ Profile/Configs/PGP Key/comhack π

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: ssd, solid state digital disks

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users