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Manjaro


Hedon James

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I've seen Manjaro mentioned on this forum in a few places, so I've been lurking on that forum, checking out their content and their tutorials. Seems like a VERY INTERESTING distro! In layman's terms, a more user-friendly version of Arch. I recognize that it isn't Arch, but what I mean is that Manjaro is to Arch as Ubuntu is to Debian...not "the same", but a more user-friendly derivative.

 

Does anyone here use Manjaro as their main distro, or have any noteworthy experience with it? I've tinkered with Arch-based distros before, and I like a LOT of things about Arch. But I don't think Arch proper is the right "fit" for me. While I like the rolling release model, and the supreme configurability, and the newer softwares; it is a little too bleeding-edge, and requires a little too much fine-grained configuration for my tastes. I also LOVE their documentation and Wiki, but their forums smack a little too much of "advanced user elitism", with a little too much "RTFM" attitude. I understand that Arch isn't meant for beginners and is geared moreso towards intermediate and advanced users; but while I consider myself a "beginner/intermediate user", it's a huge turn-off when you've researched and googled and tried to educate yourself, in an attempt to become more "advanced", but you still don't "get it" and are greeted with a curt "RTFM" style of reply. I know ME, and I'm not going to get along with folks like that. So for all those reasons, I don't think I'm a good "fit" for Arch, no matter how interesting I found it, or how much I like it.

 

I think everyone here knows that I'm an Ubuntu user, after having distro-cruised several options back in circa 2009-2010ish. Ubuntu used to be the perfect fit for me...more "user-friendly" than Debian; more customizable than Mint (although I have no issues with either.) Ubuntu was simply located squarely within the indicated spectrum of user-friendly vs. configurable that I wanted to be located on. And I've recently dialed in a heavily customized Lubuntu to resemble everything I like about Ubuntu, but in a more lightweight footprint and with window managers that suit my workflow/computing style better. However, over the years, I've been adding PPAs to Ubuntu in order to get the more recent, but still stable versions of software that I'm interested in. And, with the recent installation of my Lubuntu remix...MimeticDE (discussed in another thread on here) on all the machines in my home network, I'm realizing what a PITA it is to continue re-installing an OS when the support period is over. 3 years....5 years...whatever....I'm growing weary of taking a base distro, customizing it for me AND everyone I provide Linux support to, remastering it into an ISO, and re-installing before the support period ends. After almost 8 years of Linux use, this is beginning to strike me as stupid. A rolling release schedule seems to be the way to go. So I'm looking to pick up my "Ubuntu experience", detached from Ubuntu, and place it down on a rolling release distro. This includes my "MimeticDE" configurations...

 

Arch would be a prime candidate for this, and my first choice, except for the perceived incongruities with my personal outlook (discussed above), which lead me to Manjaro. Manjaro seems to take the best of everything I like about Arch, but distills it into a more "user-friendly" form...seemingly allowing for higher degrees of configurability, while not requiring EVERYTHING to be configured. Even so-called "knocks" against Manjaro, such as time delays between receiving packages into Manjaro Stable Repo after being filtered down from Arch Stable, actually sound like positive things to me. It sounds like the sweet spot of "trailing edge" software that is more recent than the stale stable versions I'm used to, but without the potential breakage of bleeding edge. And it seems like the Manjaro community is a healthy mixture of beginner/intermediate users, with intermediate users seemingly more willing and open to assisting users toward a more advanced path. I like that...reminds me of Ubuntu. So, on paper at least, it seems like a perfect fit.

 

Which brings me back to my original question...anyone on here with Manjaro experience? If so, are you still using it? Why, or why not? Care to share your thoughts, experiences, or stories?

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securitybreach

I have never used Majaro but a lot of users swear by it. While I agree with your assessment of the Arch forums, we are very polite and enjoy helping out on my Google+ Archlinux Community.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/113935870359973712582

 

I own and moderate the community so that type of stuff does not go on..

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I have used Manjaro on a small laptop as well as tried it on an old desktop. It works OK but frankly I would put the time and effort into Arch if I wanted this sort of rolling release experience. I would not put it on any machine a brand new Linux user would be trying out. Nor would I ever consider it for my "production" Linux system - that's always been either Ubuntu or now Linux Mint.

I had big time problems with a couple of Manjaro ISOs that wouldn't run with my recalcitrant AMD video solution - but that was nothing new as just about all of the early 4.X kernels on any distro did the same. However the Manjaro developers made things worse by putting in the amdgpu driver for recent technology and not including the more mature radeon driver. I also had trouble with wifi on a couple of releases.

Personally I find the Manjaro community very off-putting. They changed the whole forum format without any secure way to refer the old forum posts and without consulting the members. There are a few guys who are very helpful and knowledgeable but the moderator staff tends to be rather abrupt and "my way or the highway." I never ran into this sort of arrogance in any Debian community. I don't know what the Arch community is like and wouldn't worry because Josh is here and he's as good as it gets with Arch and a nice guy to boot. Hanging out here spoils it for any other forum.

I don't use Manjaro now and I am pretty much committed to the Debian approach. MX-16 is an excellent alternative for laptops and that is what I'm using now.

Edited by raymac46
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Appreciate the feedback. FWIW, I'm not "sold' on Manjaro yet. Just noting that it ticks a LOT of my preference boxes, and seems to be a good fit...at least on paper. I'll be doing a LOT of "beta-testing" before I make any moves. It took me months of use of Ubuntu, Mint, PCLOS, OpenSuse, Fedora, and Debian before I circled back and said "yep, Ubuntu....that's the one for me." And it has been for nearly 8 years. But this LTS stuff seems pointless to me. I want to go rolling release...set it and forget it. Something I can "grow into", rather than "grow out of", if that makes any sense...

 

In addition to rolling release, I'd like a fairly large, knowledgeable, and vibrant community to share ideas and troubleshooting tips. Friendly and helpful to beginners, but with ability to advance to more intermediate and maybe eventually an advanced user. I want newer software than typically available in LTS offerings (I've always stuck with LTS versions, for support reasons), but not "bleeding edge" that may require too much bug triage..."trailing edge" is my sweet spot. I also require "cross platform" software offerings, which seems to be somewhat limited to the biggest distros, less likely in the smaller "boutique" distros. I'd also like a strong package base for OpenBox, FluxBox, & PekWM, as well as LXDE tools. Can't help it...I worked hard to find those packages/tools, they work great for me and my computing style, and I'm not giving them up. I don't want to be the ONLY guy who uses PekWM in Manjaro, for instance, LOL! And once I have my distro built and customized, I'd like to create an ISO for ease of installation on others' machines. Once installed though, it'll be rolling release...so then I'll only need to install on new machines, as my hardware gets upgraded. But maybe SystemBack is all that is needed for that? So considering all that:

 

Arch seems like a good fit for me. But I have concerns about being "beginner friendly" and the elitism I see in Arch forums. I suppose that could be mitigated by locating user-friendly forums, and just dealing with elitist asses on those rare occassions where you have no other choices? More importantly, I'm concerned about "bleeding edge" software. Does Arch have a less progressive software repo?

 

Manjaro seems ideal. In all fairness though, it does seem like I'll have to wade through an excessive amount of chatter regarding aesthetic merits of wallpapers and icons. Ironically, that sounds a little elitist on my part?! Difference being, in my mind at least, that I wouldn't jump into a thread of that chatter to tell folks that such a discussion was beneath me.

 

Linux Mint Debian Edition is also on my radar. Last I checked, this was also a rolling release. I imagine this would be a fairly seamless (perhaps even painless?) transition, considering how similar Debian and Mint are compared to Ubuntu. But this doesn't solve my "trailing edge" software wants. So we're back to PPAs.

 

Gentoo is an option, but I'm not a masochist. Goes against my "set it and forget it" way of doing things.

 

Arya Linux looks interesting. Newish distro, based on Linux From Scratch, but not very mature yet. In 2-3 years, this project could die on the vine, or could bloom into a Manjaro-like experience. I'll keep an eye on it, tinker with it, enjoy it...but I'm not hopping on that train until I know it has tracks! LOL...

 

Are there any others I may have missed, but should be aware of? Please share your thoughts...

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You are getting well beyond my pay grade here...as I get older i look more for stability and just want something that works. That leads me away from rolling release. My Linux customers don't want their systems broken and they want support for years - so I stick with LTS. No Linux advocate ever got fired for recommending Linux Mint or Ubuntu. :yes:

But since you want to roll your own distro and customize (and don't want to blow your system sky high - Gentoo) I don't know where you would find a better base than Arch. Build it from the ground up, great package manager, rolling release. Josh would be able to tell you what to do if you don't want the absolute bleeding edge, but in my view that's what rolling release is all about. Set it and forget it seems more a Debian sort of thing.

Of course if you want rock solid you could go with Slackware..we have some experts here on that too.

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No Linux advocate ever got fired for recommending Linux Mint or Ubuntu. :yes:

 

True, haha! LOL! And good point on Slackware. I kinda forgot about Slack. It fits my "rolling" criteria, but their software packages seem kinda hit or miss. They're kind of like Debian, but smaller user base, with less software options.

 

In another thread we talked about the differences between "bleeding edge" and "common" hardware, and identified the "sweet spot" for linux users as the "trailing edge" hardware. Those comments made me realize that is what I want from my software too! Newer than the "common" version, but without the hassles of "bleeding edge". Is there such a thing as a "trailing edge" software philosophy? If so, who exemplifies it?

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V.T. Eric Layton

If you like Debian-based distros and want rolling-release, I would say aptosid. However, after visiting their website, it seems they haven't been actively developing/updating lately. :(

 

Hey, Roger (sunrat)... what happened here?

 

http://www.aptosid.com/index.php

 

===

 

Oh, and someone here using Manjaro as their primary OS. I can't remember right now who it is, though. Search for other Manjaro threads here to see...

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V.T. Eric Layton

And good point on Slackware. I kinda forgot about Slack. It fits my "rolling" criteria, but their software packages seem kinda hit or miss. They're kind of like Debian, but smaller user base, with less software options.

 

 

Slack is definitely NOT a rolling-release distribution. It's an old-fashioned clean-slate install for new releases every three or four years, depending on when BDFL feels like putting one out. ;)

 

I've never understood what all the fuss is with Slackware's package management or their suppose small package repository is all about. I've never had an issue finding an app for use in Slackware. I can find them in the repo. I can find them via SlackBuild.org. I can find them via private SlackBuild repos (Alien Bob or Robbie Workman, etc.). And in the extreme I can build them from source without breaking too much of a sweat.

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securitybreach

@Hedon James:

 

The Arch forums have always been a little elitist and a lot of that is because over half of the questions have already be answered via the wiki or the forum. I am not defending them whatsoever but when people do not bother to use the search function on the forum or wiki, I understand the aggrevation. Plus Archlinux is really geared towards developers and advanced user. I am not saying that beginners shouldn't use it but its not a beginner distro. This can be done as the wiki will walk you through most anything that you want to do so it is doable.

 

I never bother going to the Archlinux forums to search for anything anyway. I usually just end up there after a search query. Besides the Archlinux G+ Community, the best place to ask questions is really the IRC channels. They are both on irc.freenode.net @ #archlinux and #archlinux-topic. The offtopic channel is a little more friendly and a place to hangout but the main channel is fast paced with multiple questions going on at once. I am always on the two irc channels but mostly lurking.

 

Now on the Archlinux Community (G+), we are a bit more friendly and usually just give the links with a solution or quote the wiki instead of being an ass. Once in a while. I have to step in to calm a conversation but most people are just helpful users.

 

Personally, most of the time I simply google "archlinux + the error string" get a solution from the forum or wiki at the top of the results. Really you can usually do the same with other distros as long as their user base it large. If you have had the issue, someone else has as well..

 

Anyway, point being, Archlinux is not really that hard and I actually find it easier to admin than other "easier" distros. Things just seem to work..... and even when something does breaks, there is always a fix quickly or you can easily roll the package back from cache.

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securitybreach
No Linux advocate ever got fired for recommending Linux Mint or Ubuntu. :yes:

 

True, haha! LOL! And good point on Slackware. I kinda forgot about Slack. It fits my "rolling" criteria, but their software packages seem kinda hit or miss. They're kind of like Debian, but smaller user base, with less software options.

 

In another thread we talked about the differences between "bleeding edge" and "common" hardware, and identified the "sweet spot" for linux users as the "trailing edge" hardware. Those comments made me realize that is what I want from my software too! Newer than the "common" version, but without the hassles of "bleeding edge". Is there such a thing as a "trailing edge" software philosophy? If so, who exemplifies it?

 

Well I wouldn't consider Archlinux bleeding edge as are no git, svn, beta, rc., etc. packages in the repos; Archlinux only uses the latest, stable versions of packages. Now all the git, svn, beta, rc, etc. are available via the AUR but those are not official packages. There are LTS versions of the kernel and libs but they follow the lts version from kernel.org so they get updates, just not as frequent as the stable version does.

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And good point on Slackware. I kinda forgot about Slack. It fits my "rolling" criteria, but their software packages seem kinda hit or miss. They're kind of like Debian, but smaller user base, with less software options.

 

 

Slack is definitely NOT a rolling-release distribution. It's an old-fashioned clean-slate install for new releases every three or four years, depending on when BDFL feels like putting one out. ;)

 

I knew that but I was thinking there was a rolling version of Slackware as well.

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I have never used Manjaro and doubt if I ever will. Mainly due to the appalling way some supposed Manjaro users behave on the Arch forums and other places.

 

If you fancy Arch, Bluestar might be a good way to try. Still if a duffer like meself can install Arch and run it I am sure you would have no problems with it.

As to problems with Arch updates, you just need to keep an eye on what is available for update and if anything looks problematic then leave of updating for a few days till the problem has been sorted. Problems with updates usually get sorted very very quickly.

 

An alternative way to install is to use something like Anywhere,

 

https://arch-anywhere.org/

 

 

Bringing you Arch - Anywhere

 

The Arch Anywhere ISO contains an automated install script giving you the ability to install a fully custom Arch Linux system in minutes. Write the Arch Anywhere ISO to a CD or USB, boot it up from your computer or VirtualBox, and type 'arch-anywhere'. This will invoke the built-in dialog installer allowing you to install Arch Linux with a simple menu system.

 

The installer has support for multiple languages. Every aspect of the install, from partitioning the drive to installing a desktop, and extra software is taken into consideration, leaving you with a fully bootable Arch Linux system, your favorite desktop and programs from the official Arch Repos included. Install Arch Anywhere, regardless of your level of experience.

 

The Arch Anywhere ISO also contains a built-in Arch Linux Wiki. You may search any page on the Arch Wiki from the command line with the 'arch-wiki' command. For example: 'arch-wiki beginner's guide' would pull up the entire beginners guide in the command line. Never be without the wiki again with the arch-wiki command.

 

I am hoping to give it a try in a few days but I may get distracted. Been waiting for a USB-C stick to arrive in the post as I fancy trying Arch from a usb.

 

:breakfast:

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V.T. Eric Layton

Looks like Siduction might be another rolling release Debian worth a look.

 

AHA! Siduction. That's what happened to Aptosid. It became (got forked?) into Siduction. I 'member now. ;)

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Oh, and someone here using Manjaro as their primary OS. I can't remember right now who it is, though. Search for other Manjaro threads here to see...

 

I first heard of Manjaro here on these forums and bookmarked the website to check it out "someday". I did a search before I started this thread, and there are several threads here with Manjaro mentioned in the discussion, but only a few are specifically discussing Manjaro. Most of the Manjaro mentions are passing comments, or brief forks in the conversation. Even after looking through those threads, I'm not sure who is only familiar with Manjaro, as I am; who has used Manjaro, or for how long; who put it on bare metal, or VB, or just a LiveISO; and who just tinkered with it, or actually installed & used it for an extended period. And are they still using it? Why or why not?

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Hey Barbarian, thanks for the Arch Anywhere link! That looks interesting...I'll check it out! SB, you have referenced a "Vanilla Arch" installer on here before...unfortunately, I can't remember the name. Can you provide me a link, for comparison sake?

 

EDIT: Was it Architect Installer?

Edited by Hedon James
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securitybreach

Yes, it was Architect. While it is no longer developed, it works fine as it fetches the packages and gives an updated mirrorlist.

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Just thought of something SB...theoretical question, but based on realistic application. Printer and scanner drivers are often provided, via website download, in either DEB or RPM format, 32 or 64 bit. How does Arch get those drivers? Download source & compile? What about those instances (perhaps rare) where a source package isn't available?

 

For instance, I recently purchased a Dell c3760n color laserjet printer. A big factor in my decision was that Dell provided Linux drivers for that machine (I prefer to give my money to vendors who at least attempt to accommodate linux users, rather than making it the problem of linux users). Unfortunately, Ubuntu is a Debian distro, while the Linux driver was an RPM. Dell tech support suggested that printer was "enterprise grade" and the Linux driver was intended for "enterprise Linux", such as Red Hat and CentOs; they had no plans for Debian packages and had no idea what to suggest. Fortunately, I was familiar with "Alien" command and was able to convert the RPM to a DEB and everything worked out fine.

 

But what would an Arch user do in that circumstance? There was a window EXE driver package and a Linux RPM driver package on that disk that came with the printer. If I was an Arch user, how could I solve that issue?

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Hey Barbarian, thanks for the Arch Anywhere link! That looks interesting...I'll check it out! SB, you have referenced a "Vanilla Arch" installer on here before...unfortunately, I can't remember the name. Can you provide me a link, for comparison sake?

 

EDIT: Was it Architect Installer?

 

Anywhere is a vanilla Arch install and in some ways better than Architect as that installs a working sudo. I use my Arch as root or user none of that fancy schmancy sudo nonsense. :whistling:

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Well unlike debian or redhat, the drivers are almost always in the AUR as a compiled package.

 

Unless I'm looking in the "wrong" place, there are no AUR drivers for Dell c3760n printers:

 

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/?O=0&SeB=nd&K=dell&outdated=&SB=n&SO=a&PP=50&do_Search=Go

 

The linux driver RPM provided by Dell is called Dell-C3760-Color-Laser-1.0-3.noarch.rpm

Am i just looking in the wrong place?

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Is yours a postscript printer ?

 

 

Comments

 

 

Under this entry Dell's PPD files for their PostScript printers are hosted. PostScript printers are supported natively in Linux and Unix environments, so you only need the PPD file for your printer, no driver executables, to get access to all printing functionality. The PPD contains all information about properties and user-settable options which are specific to the printer and makes printing dialogs show these options and allow the user to control all the printer's functionality.

The PPDs only support the printing functionality of the printers. To use extra functionality, like scanning and faxing you will need additional drivers.

Note that these printers work, like all other PostScript printers, with generic PostScript PPD files, but then you will not get access to all the printer specific functionality.

 

 

 

 

Comments

 

 

Generic Postscript "driver". Generally, for Postscript printers, you will not need a driver, as all applications produce PostScript. For the printing system getting access to the printer-specific features the manufacturer supplies a PPD file for every PostScript printer. Use this PPD file instead of a Foomatic-generated one to get all functionality of your PostScript printer working. The files provided by Foomatic are generic files which contain only some standard options, use them only if you do not find an appropriate PPD for your printer.

One can make use of all functionality which the PostScript printers have under Windows/MacOS when one uses the PPD file coming with the printer, downloaded from here on OpenPrinting, from the manufacturer's home page, or from Adobe's web site (do "unzip -L [filename].EXE" to get the PPD files). If there are several different PPD files for your printer model and none dedicated for Linux or Unix, the PPD for Windows NT works best in most cases.

CUPS and PPR support PPD files directly, LPD/GNUlpr/LPRng, PDQ, CPS, and spooler-less users can set up their printers with foomatic-rip as they would set up a printer with a Foomatic PPD file. foomatic-rip works as well with manufacturer-supplied PostScript PPD files. This way all PostScript printers work perfectly under GNU/Linux or other free operating systems. Ghostscript is not needed for them. See also our PPD documentation page for instructions.

 

 

http://www.openprinting.org/driver/Postscript

 

The C3760dn comes with both standard and PostScript drivers.

 

http://uk.pcmag.com/dell-c3760dn-color-laser-printer/1202/review/dell-c3760dn-color-laser-printer

 

So you should be able to use it as is on linux. An you can always convert a .rpm to an Arch Package. :shifty:

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So you should be able to use it as is on linux. An you can always convert a .rpm to an Arch Package. :shifty:

 

Tell me more about this. I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've used Alien to convert RPM to DEB, but those few times were absolute godsends! How does one "Alien" a package from RPM (or even DEB) to an Arch format? Now that I think about it, WHAT is the Arch/pacman format? Just a simple tarball? I think I need to know more about pacman and how it works...

Edited by Hedon James
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Hey, Roger (sunrat)... what happened here?

 

http://www.aptosid.com/index.php

Sidux changed its name to aptosid, but the chief developer, slh, was rather strict and the forums were not very helpful. I didn't realise it had stopped development. Most of the other developers and the community jumped ship and started siduction which is more friendly and community-focused, and very actively developed and supported.

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So you should be able to use it as is on linux. An you can always convert a .rpm to an Arch Package. :shifty:

 

Tell me more about this. I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've used Alien to convert RPM to DEB, but those few times were absolute godsends! How does one "Alien" a package from RPM (or even DEB) to an Arch format? Now that I think about it, WHAT is the Arch/pacman format? Just a simple tarball? I think I need to know more about pacman and how it works...

 

Reading the wiki is always a good place to start. There is this,

 

Install RPM packages on Arch Linux

 

As you can see it’s pretty straight-forward

 

 

:fish:

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Hedon James, you might want to take a look at Antergos. Maybe check it out in a live session.

 

Anyway, I have Arch and Antergos installed, but also I run Debian Stable, so I don't worry about Arch breaking. Arch is quite solid, though.

 

I ran Chakra, Bridge Linux, and ArchBang before I ever installed Arch. I never did try Manjaro, just didn't seem close enough to Arch for my tastes. I only installed Antergos recently. I like what I've seen so far. The Antergos installer lets you choose the desktop you want to use; I went with Openbox. I think the live session runs GNOME, though.

 

I figure that if I'm gonna run an Arch derivative, I'm better off if I understand how to use "straight" Arch. Also I've picked up on a lot of things by having an Arch installation along with an installation of an Arch-derivative -- the ol' contrast-n-compare thing.

 

As for the Arch forums, I haven't posted there much. I can usually get things figured out by going to the wiki, searching at the forum, reading the man pages, doing web searches. If I need help after that, I'll come here to the BATL forums -- this is where I've gotten the best help for Arch, actually. But overall I've been kinda surprised that I haven't had to ask for much help (the Arch wiki rocks!), and also kinda surprised at how stable Arch has proven to be over time. Best rolling-release distro I've ever used, easily.

 

Sorry that I have no personal experience with Manjaro to share with you. Manjaro appears to have a lot going for it.

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+1 on the Arch Wiki documentation! I have found excellent information on that Wiki, perhaps intended for Arch users, but equally valuable to an Ubuntu user! I've never posted on the Arch forum either, but allow me to compare & contrast. I don't just join clubs for the sake of membership...I lurk around for awhile, trying to gauge how "worthwhile" the group is, and if I have anything to contribute back. I'm looking for a good "fit".

 

I lurked here for a LONG time before joining. Once in awhile at first, then more frequently, then almost daily, until I realized this was a great forum....top to bottom....with no identifiable jerks (very unusual, IMO!). And I figured I could contribute almost as much as I took. Turned out to be a great decision. Folks on here are WONDERFUL...my own personal "gold standard" of what a linux forum should be.

 

I've lurked on the Arch forum too. And while there seems to be some decent folks over there, the over-riding theme of that board seems to be a somewhat derogatory, elitist, smugness. In my experience, left unchecked, that is what that group will eventually become, as the "decent" folks will leave. Who wants to be around that? Reminds me of that joke "Q: How do you know if someone uses Arch? A: They'll tell you!" LOL!

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