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Windows 7 64 bit shows red cross on network icon


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#1 OFFLINE   zillah

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 06:09 AM

Dear folk

My desktop windows 7 64 bit was working fine til I walked up yesterday and there was a red cross on the network icon!!!

Ethernet cable working fine as when i hooked it to my laptop everything is working fine , means problem lies within the desktop and nothing wrong with cable or router port.

Troubleshoot that I had done so far :

Restarted desktop 3 times, uninstalled LAN driver, connected new Ethernet cable

What else I need to check to find out what is going on ?

Thanks

#2 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 07:14 AM

Well, I hate to say it but it could be a hardware issue as you have already ruled out the cable and the driver.
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#3 OFFLINE   zillah

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 07:27 AM

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Well, I hate to say it but it could be a hardware issue as you have already ruled out the cable and the driver.
Thanks admin
What i did I shutdown desktop and unplug power cable and waited for a while and now it is working ,,,,,,,,,,,,,credit to JohnC_21 from bleepingcomputer.com

#4 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 07:48 AM

View Postzillah, on 16 April 2018 - 07:27 AM, said:

Quote

Well, I hate to say it but it could be a hardware issue as you have already ruled out the cable and the driver.
Thanks admin
What i did I shutdown desktop and unplug power cable and waited for a while and now it is working ,,,,,,,,,,,,,credit to JohnC_21 from bleepingcomputer.com

Well generally that is what you would do with a laptop (unplug battery and hold power button down for 30 seconds) but glad to hear that it is working now.
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#5 OFFLINE   zillah

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 07:50 AM

All good
I did the power-cycle for the desktop not the laptop as I had no problem with the laptop

#6 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:10 AM

View Postzillah, on 16 April 2018 - 07:50 AM, said:

All good
I did the power-cycle for the desktop not the laptop as I had no problem with the laptop

I understood that but I was just pointing out that that is usually the fix for a laptop, not a desktop.
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#7 OFFLINE   zlim

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 11:28 AM

Powering down the router might have worked too.

I usually run this tiny, no install program https://www.nirsoft....rk_watcher.html
because my old print server loses the connection from time to time. I run this to see if it is detected. If not, I power cycle the print server and have my printer in the network again.
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#8 OFFLINE   Digerati

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 11:37 AM

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Restarted desktop 3 times, uninstalled LAN driver, connected new Ethernet cable
Well, I was going to suggest a "cold" restart, but that's what you did in post #3.

Note when an ATX Form Factor compliant desktop/tower computer (PC) is plugged in (and if equipped, the master power switch on the back of the power supply is set to on) ATX power supplies are required to supply +5Vsb standby voltage to several points on the motherboard, including the network adapter. When you shutdown or reboot the computer, you are really just cycling the computer through a standby state, not "off".

This +5Vsb voltage allows for such features as "Wake on LAN" (as well as "Wake on Mouse" and "Wake on Keyboard"). On newer motherboards with W10, this +5Vsb is even used to keep data "alive" in RAM when the computer goes into sleep mode. This allows for quicker starts.

When you unplug the power supply (or switch the master switch to off) this removes all voltages, including that +5Vsb voltage and releases any settings - including any network connection - that may have become corrupt for some reason.

Then, when you connect power again and boot, those settings (and "handshaking" between the computer and router) are "refreshed".

Note if you simply shutdown your computer, many network adapters and routers will still show an activity light indicating there is still a connection on that port. On my gigabit network, my LEDs change to yellow indicating 100Mbps in standby mode. Then they switch to green (1Gbps) when fully booted.

So this IS a very common fix for desktops too. I always recommend doing a "cold" reboot for such problems (as well as trying another Ethernet cable and a different router/switch port).

Just remember with a notebook you have to remove the battery, not just unplug the supply.
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#9 OFFLINE   LilBambi

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 03:49 PM

Yep...When all else fails, shutdown, wait 10 secs, boot it back up.

Has fixed many a glitch!
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#10 OFFLINE   Digerati

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 10:41 AM

Right. But again, it needs to be a "cold" restart to ensure all voltages (which may otherwise be holding - potentially corrupt - settings) are removed from all points on the motherboard, including the network interface.
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#11 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 10:49 AM

Also, technically windows 10 does not shut down when you select shutdown. In order to do a full power off, you actually have to click restart. I know it sounds goofy but they do this so you can power up quickly and have faster boot times. I only figured this out after trying to troubleshoot an issue.
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#12 OFFLINE   Digerati

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 11:28 AM

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Also, technically windows 10 does not shut down when you select shutdown. In order to do a full power off, you actually have to click restart.
Sorry, but that is not true. A "restart" does not put the computer into a "full power off" state - not even for a fraction of a second.

That is my whole point above in post #8 about doing a "cold" restart - where you must physically unplug the computer from the wall, or flip the master power switch on the back of the PSU (if it has one) to off. That is the only way to "fully" remove power, including the +5Vsb standby voltage, from all points on the motherboard.

If you "Shutdown" or "Restart" the computer, all you are doing is putting the computer into standby mode for the Shutdown process, or cycling the computer into then out of standby when you "Restart". Note if this were not true, how could the computer/operating system know it needs to restart itself? It couldn't. There has to still be power applied to keep that data (the instruction to restart) "alive" so it can restart. And that's the problem - the power (the +5Vsb) is still applied to several points on the motherboard.

So to ensure "full power" including the +5Vsb voltage is also removed, a "cold" restart is required.
  • Shutdown via the Windows Start menu,
  • Unplug the computer from the wall (or flip master power switch to off),
  • Wait 10 - 15 seconds to ensure all residual voltages have decayed to unusable potentials - thus ensuring all data and settings being held are totally lost,
  • Plug power cable back in to wall (or flip master power switch back to on), thus restoring that ATX Form Factor required +5Vsb voltage,
  • Press power button to boot (not reboot, but boot) computer.
You may be familiar with the maintenance trick to start your computer when it is out of the case. You simply use a flat tip screwdriver to short the two pins on the motherboard's front panel I/O header that lead to the case's power button. That works because the +5Vsb standby voltage present on one of those pins gets shorted to the other pin, signalling  the PSU to fire up its main +12V, +5V and +3.3V rails. That is exactly what the front panel power button does. If that voltage was not present (if the PSU is unplugged), shorting the pins does nothing because the +5Vsb voltage would not be present.

Edit add: BTW, this is how it has always been since ATX replaced AT as the standard PC Form Factor - not just with W10. But I note W10 with modern hardware (DDR4 RAM in particular) does take greater advantage of that +5Vsb standby state for even faster restarts.

Edited by Digerati, 08 May 2018 - 11:45 AM.

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#13 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 11:42 AM

I have one of those weird Lenovo Flex laptops where the battery is fixed inside the case. No way to take it out. All I can do is remove the power cord, hold the power button in for 30 seconds or so, and hope for the best. Fortunately, a warm restart usually fixes my problems.
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#14 OFFLINE   Digerati

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 11:48 AM

Yeah, notebooks are tricky - especially since there is no ATX type industry standard for notebooks.

I note that 30 second trick, which is often suggested (even with PCs :( where it does absolutely nothing), only works with some notebooks.

RTFM applies!
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#15 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 12:29 PM

View PostDigerati, on 08 May 2018 - 11:28 AM, said:

Quote

Also, technically windows 10 does not shut down when you select shutdown. In order to do a full power off, you actually have to click restart.
Sorry, but that is not true. A "restart" does not put the computer into a "full power off" state - not even for a fraction of a second.

That is my whole point above in post #8 about doing a "cold" restart - where you must physically unplug the computer from the wall, or flip the master power switch on the back of the PSU (if it has one) to off. That is the only way to "fully" remove power, including the +5Vsb standby voltage, from all points on the motherboard.

If you "Shutdown" or "Restart" the computer, all you are doing is putting the computer into standby mode for the Shutdown process, or cycling the computer into then out of standby when you "Restart". Note if this were not true, how could the computer/operating system know it needs to restart itself? It couldn't. There has to still be power applied to keep that data (the instruction to restart) "alive" so it can restart. And that's the problem - the power (the +5Vsb) is still applied to several points on the motherboard.....


Actually, Windows 10 does the exact thing that I mentioned:

Quote

Fast Startup (aka: hybrid boot or hybrid Shutdown) is a new feature in Windows 8 to help your PC start up faster after shutting down. When turned on, Windows 8 does this by using a hybrid shutdown (a partial hibernate) method that saves only the kernal session and device drivers (system information) to the hibernate (hiberfil.sys) file on disk instead of closing it when you shut down your PC. This also makes the hiberfil.sys file to be much smaller than what UEFI, then fast startup will be even faster.

The fast startup setting doesn't apply to Restart.

https://www.eightfor...windows-8.6320/

https://linustechtip...utdown-your-pc/
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#16 OFFLINE   Digerati

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 01:03 PM

You are confusing features and what controls them.

The function of the power and reset buttons, and the +5Vsb requirement are hardware features as required by the ATX Form Factor standard and have nothing to do with the OS! They behave the same way with Linux.

Fast startup is a Windows feature and has nothing to do with "cold" restarts.

The ONLY way to do a cold restart is to remove power completely and that can only be done by unplugging the computer from the wall, or switching off the PSU with its back power switch.

Quote

Actually, Windows 10 does the exact thing that I mentioned:
No OS, not even Windows 10 can remove the +5Vsb voltage from all points on the motherboard. The ATX Form Factor standard requires it be there.

And again, the front panel power button would not work if that +5Vsb voltage was not there.

Ask yourself how your computer can boot if the boot process must complete POST first, and then and only then is the boot drive touched?
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#17 OFFLINE   Digerati

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 01:19 PM

Let me add this. "Cold" starts and "warm" starts are "electronics" terms, not exclusive to computers. It applies to TVs, radios, microwave ovens, anything that uses a remote control and more that maintains circuits in a "live" or powered (even if reduced power) state when the device is simply "turned" off.

Cold means all power is removed. Warm means it is brought out of some stand-by state. Your TV for example, must still be alive if you can "turn it on" by a remote control.

The computer's front panel power button is just a "remote" button that dumps the existing +5Vsb voltage on the other pin (turns the "high" logic state to a "low" logic state) which signals the PSU to startup when in standby, or signals the OS to start the shutdown process if already booted.

If the power button needed Windows, you could not start your computer without a drive and OS installed, or with a brand new drive that has no OS yet. But you can and that is because of that +5Vsb voltage.
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#18 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 01:24 PM

View PostDigerati, on 08 May 2018 - 01:03 PM, said:

You are confusing features and what controls them.

The function of the power and reset buttons, and the +5Vsb requirement are hardware features as required by the ATX Form Factor standard and have nothing to do with the OS! They behave the same way with Linux.

Fast startup is a Windows feature and has nothing to do with "cold" restarts.

The ONLY way to do a cold restart is to remove power completely and that can only be done by unplugging the computer from the wall, or switching off the PSU with its back power switch.

Quote

Actually, Windows 10 does the exact thing that I mentioned:
No OS, not even Windows 10 can remove the +5Vsb voltage from all points on the motherboard. The ATX Form Factor standard requires it be there.

And again, the front panel power button would not work if that +5Vsb voltage was not there.

Ask yourself how your computer can boot if the boot process must complete POST first, and then and only then is the boot drive touched?

I never mentioned anything about a cold boot or removing power from the board. I simply mentioned window's 10 does not shut down all the way like previous versions did. When troubleshooting, it's good to know what a reboot and a shutdown actually does (especially with windows).
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#19 OFFLINE   Digerati

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 01:45 PM

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I never mentioned anything about a cold boot or removing power from the board. I simply mentioned window's 10 does not shut down all the way like previous versions did. When troubleshooting, it's good to know what a reboot and a shutdown does (especially with windows).

:(

It does shut down like previous versions did. Again, you are confusing features. When you shut down Windows 10, Windows 8, Windows 7, Windows Vista and even Windows XP, they all put the hardware into standby - not "fully off". As you quoted, starting in W8 (not 10) Faster startup uses a "hybrid" mode to save your desktop and open windows into a hiberfil.sys file for faster startups (return you to where you left off). BUT if you lose power for any reason (thunderstorm for example), you won't lose anything because it a hybrid shutdown. Windows will just boot normally. But that has nothing to do with voltages that are still being applied to the motherboard and the network interface when in that hybrid state - which is the topic of this thread.

You can easily disable Faster startup. Many users do because it can interfere with jmultiboot (Linux and Windows) systems, and with some imaging software. When Faster startup is disabled, the hardware (including the front panel power and reset buttons) behave the exact same way! So does that +5Vsb.

If you boot directly into the BIOS Setup Menu, you don't even touch the boot drive - yet the power and reset button and +5Bsb behave the exact same way.

This portion of this discussion started when you said,

Quote

Also, technically windows 10 does not shut down when you select shutdown. In order to do a full power off, you actually have to click restart.
Sorry, but that is incorrect on both points. "Windows 10" does indeed shutdown completely. It just knows upon reboot to look for that file and load it if present. If not present, Windows loads from scratch. But the hardware never did shut down completely because it was still plugged into the wall. And that's the distinction that needs to be understood here.

When a computer boots, there are two boot processes, the hardware, then the OS. The network interface (and its communications with the network) are established at the hardware level, not OS. To "fully reset" the hardware, you MUST do a "cold" restart by fully removing all power, including the +5Vsb.
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#20 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:10 PM

According to Lenovo if you have an internal battery you should disconnect the power cord and then hold the power button for 30 seconds. I guess that'll do the trick.
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#21 OFFLINE   Digerati

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 02:21 PM

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According to Lenovo if you have an internal battery you should disconnect the power cord and then hold the power button for 30 seconds. I guess that'll do the trick.
Yes, for battery operated  notebooks, that often does. But not for PCs.
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