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#1 OFFLINE   mhbell

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:57 PM

I will address this mostly to Raymac because he uses Mint the same as I do, but anyone else can chime in. Here are my questions.

1. Are you or anyone else running VBox in Windows 10?

2. What are the spec's of the computer you are running win 10 and Vbox on?

3. What Linux Distro are you running Vbox on?

4. How big a hard drive or ssd are you using, and how much memory?

5. What CPU are you running?

6. How well does the VM work in Windows 10?

7. How well does windows 10 work running in a VM?

I am thinking of setting up a VM in Windows 10 and in Linux Mint 18.1. I would be using a 250 GB SSD Disk. I have 16 GB ram and a AMD 3.1 Ghz cpu. Any help or advise appreciated.
Mel

Edited by mhbell, 20 April 2017 - 09:58 PM.

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#2 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:08 PM

1. No I have Windows 10 running inside a virt-manager/qemu vm.

2. Well the machine I am running all my VMs on has 2x Xeon E5620s with 16 cores @ 2.40GHz and 96gb of ram. That said, I was running 2 or 3 at a time on my main machine beforehand and it has 32gb of ram and a 8 core i7.

3. It's libvirt/qemu and its Archlinux.

4. The server only has 3x 15,000 rpm 300gb hdds with 96gb of ram. Before when I was running it on my main rig, I used a 7200rpm sata drive (now a ssd) with 32gb of ram.

5. Intel i7-4790K @ 4.00GHz and the server has 2x Xeon E5620 @ 2.40GHZ

6. I have no idea as I would not let windows touch anything outside of a virtualmachine.

7. Flawlessly and I am running the latest Developer Previews. I have not had a single hiccup but I do use virtmanager, Qemu/KVM.

I hope that helps some. Even though my server has insane specs, I have been able to run VMs on linux for many years, even when I only had 8gb of ram.
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#3 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:35 AM

  • I run VBox in both Linux and Windows 10.

  • Desktops, Sandy Bridge quad core i5-2320 runs Windows 10. AMD A8-5600K runs LM 18.1

  • Linux Mint 18.1

  • Both machines have an SSD and HDD. Windows on a 500 GB SSD. Linux on 128 GB SSD. Both HDDs are 1 TB. Both desktops have 16 GB of RAM.

  • See above.

  • VM works well in both cases.

  • I don't run Windows 10 in VM.
Your setup is pretty similar to mine so you will have plenty of horsepower and memory. It should be fine. I would build my VMs with 2 GB of RAM and 2 processors. Size of HDD is up to you. I choose 16 GB dynamically allocated and let the distro grow up to that point as needed. Most of the times the virtual hard disk is well less than 8 GB.
Choose a polished distro like one of the 'buntus, Mageia or even Manjaro as your first guest. Most of these have the Guest Additions baked in so you get a full screen right out of the box. Some distros like Debian or Fedora will require you to install and build the Guest Additions modules. Not a difficult task for someone of your experience but it's a bit more inconvenient.

http://gamblisfx.com...s-on-fedora-25/

Here's some useful info:

https://www.virtualb...ml#gui-createvm

Edited by raymac46, 21 April 2017 - 07:42 AM.

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#4 OFFLINE   V.T. Eric Layton

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:30 AM

I have never installed or used any type of virtual machine software on any of my machines ever since the dawn of time. ;)

#5 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:53 AM

Well once you have enough ram to run virtual machines, it is completely pointless to run them on physical hardware especially using KVM as you are using native hardware anyway.
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#6 OFFLINE   mhbell

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:09 PM

well I got the VM installed and installed Fedora 25 and got full screen Guest addition installed, using the link that RayMac supplied. Thanks Ray. It seems slow to me. I gave it 6 GB of ram and 3 cpu's and the max 128 MB of video and 16 GB dynamic ssd sata. I got all of the updates and upgrades. I havn't used a VM for a long long time, so this will be a learning experience. Not so sure I will like it, but I will give it a try.
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#7 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:46 PM

I would try to reduce the number of cores in the VM and see if that makes a difference. I never run more than 2 and in a lot of cases only one core will do the trick. Also 6 GB of RAM seems like a lot. I'd stick to 2GB as you probably won't be doing a lot of multi tasking. Check how much RAM the VM is actually using.
It will be slower than on the rails as you are doing some hardware emulation in software.
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#8 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:51 PM

Another thing to do is install a lighter distro like Manjaro, Lubuntu, or MX-16. I am currently posting this from Manjaro running on Windows 10 and it is pretty snappy. I'm not gaming with it or anything but it seems fine for Web surfing and office work.

Edited by raymac46, 21 April 2017 - 07:51 PM.

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#9 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:53 PM

Well if he has the resources, then 3 cpus is easily doable. It may be a good suggestion to not give more than 50% of your cores. If you have 4 cores, then do not give the vm 3 of them. However, if you have a 16 core cpu, then you can easily give 4 cores to the vm.
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#10 OFFLINE   mhbell

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 10:23 PM

View Postraymac46, on 21 April 2017 - 07:46 PM, said:

I would try to reduce the number of cores in the VM and see if that makes a difference. I never run more than 2 and in a lot of cases only one core will do the trick. Also 6 GB of RAM seems like a lot. I'd stick to 2GB as you probably won't be doing a lot of multi tasking. Check how much RAM the VM is actually using.
It will be slower than on the rails as you are doing some hardware emulation in software.
according to Fedora you should use 5 GB plus of ram for the Guest Extension. I have 16 GB and am only using 6 gb for the VM also my cpu is a AMD/ATI Kaveri Radeon R-7 Graphics 7600 10 compute cores 4C + 6G x 2 I use Cinnamon Desktop on most distro's as well as LXDE.
Fedora, Suse, Siduction, Gecko, Stretch, and others. If they won't run very well in a VM then That is the beauty of GPT partitioning. It takes no more time and as a matter of fact less time to install to a GPT sata drive than to install and fool around trying to get a distro to work in a VM. with GPT I can install remove partitions and not worry about breaking the chain (the Extended partition) Don't need or use it in GPT partitioning. All primary partitions. I can add, remove, delete partitions with out affecting other OS's. That is why I use Uefi, and GPT.
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#11 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 07:12 AM

Whatever floats your boat. I have Fedora set up with 2 GB of RAM, guest additions & 2 cores and it works just fine. I doubt I'll use it permanently so when it's time I can just remove it and carry on.
I have tried all the same distros in VirtualBox with KDE PLasma, GNOME, LXDE, MATE and Cinnamon and the only issue I ever had was with Arya LInux which is not really ready for prime time even if installed.
I am using the old school BIOS/MBR on my Windows machine because that is all it supports. I have tried UEFI on my Linux machine but reverted to BIOS after a while. The motherboard there supports both old and new firmware systems. I keep my data on a separate drive so the most partitions I ever need is 2.

Edited by raymac46, 22 April 2017 - 07:27 AM.

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#12 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 07:51 AM

One more thing. I use VirtualBox mostly so I can run LInux in Windows without dual booting. I doubt I'll try running Windows 10 and Linux with dual booting ever. I share the Windows machine with my wife so if she wants to use it I just close VirtualBox and she's good to go. No reboot needed.
On an all Linux machine it's a lot easier to multiboot and set up partitions because it's usually GRUB all the way. No Windows to mess things up. I have VirtualBox on Linux just to make sure it works the same way as it does in Windows. Recent releases work well in both operating systems.

Edited by raymac46, 22 April 2017 - 07:54 AM.

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#13 OFFLINE   Hedon James

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 08:35 AM

View Postmhbell, on 20 April 2017 - 09:57 PM, said:

I will address this mostly to Raymac because he uses Mint the same as I do, but anyone else can chime in. Here are my questions.

1. Are you or anyone else running VBox in Windows 10?

2. What are the spec's of the computer you are running win 10 and Vbox on?

3. What Linux Distro are you running Vbox on?

4. How big a hard drive or ssd are you using, and how much memory?

5. What CPU are you running?

6. How well does the VM work in Windows 10?

7. How well does windows 10 work running in a VM?

I am thinking of setting up a VM in Windows 10 and in Linux Mint 18.1. I would be using a 250 GB SSD Disk. I have 16 GB ram and a AMD 3.1 Ghz cpu. Any help or advise appreciated.
Mel

1.  No
2.  N/A
3.  Lubuntu (all machines)
4.  256GB Intel(?) SSD on main rig, with 1TB SATA for /home and another 1TB SATA for backup; 64GB Patriot Torch SSD on media rig, with 2TB SATA for /home and 2TB HD in external caddy for backup
5.  Intel® Core™ i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz in main rig; AMD FX-6200 in media rig
6.  N/A
7.  I have a Win10VM and Win7VM on main rig, with Win7VM and WinXPVM on media rig; all run just fine.  FWIW, I think WinXP and Win7 run better in a VM than they do on metal, and they're certainly easier to work with, IMO.  As long as you backup regularly (I do!), there is no reason to spend hours troubleshooting a Windows issue...unless you choose to....as it is simply so much easier to just restore a snapshot or (in the event of a massively buggered-up system) to just import your backup  VM.  In 5-10 minutes, you are back up and running as if it never happened.  I can't compare Win10VM to bare metal, as I've only used Win10 in a VM.

I had Win10 Technical Preview on my media rig (which was my main rig until about 6 months ago), but I had activated it for an "official" license.  When I built my new rig and migrated all my data, including VMs, I "lost" my official Windows status as I learned through MUCH trial & error that Win10 licenses are tied to hardware UUIDs, a combination of motherboards, hard drives, etc...and when I switched the Win10VM from an AMD-based motherboard and AMD-FX CPU and ATI discrete card to my NEW rig, with an Intel-compatible motherboard, Intel i7 CPU and integrated GPU, Win10 just wouldn't activate.  I ended up downloading and installing a new Win10 Technical Preview, but I can't activate it.  I can install other software on it (anti-virus, browsers, etc...) and it works just fine.  I have to keep it fairly updated (especially when I get a notification from Windows Insider that a new Tech Preview was released), but it seems the only penalty from not being able to activate is that I can't change my themes/appearances.  I can live with that trade-off for a VM.  At some point in the future, I may even purchase a Win10 license so that I can activate and therefore, migrate to another machine in the future.  Until then...no biggie for me.

I WHOLEHEARTEDLY endorse WinVMs!  Unfortunately, we live in a world where sometimes you HAVE TO use Windows to do something, and it sure is nice to click on Virtualbox, click on Windows and have it available like your browser, or e-mail, or music player.....do what you need to, then click close>save settings and move on to your next task.  The next time you need Windows, your VM will fire up IMMEDIATELY and restore the last Windows session exactly as you left it!  No more waiting on boot-ups, or the lengthy dual-boot process.  The only downside to VMs that I can think of is the "splitting of resources" between the host & guest, i.e. CPU cores, RAM, etc...  Recommended best practices is to make sure that host has 50% plus, while guest receives less than 50%; but with a machine like yours, that shouldn't be any problem whatsoever.

I'll echo others advice in this thread...a good rule of thumb for VMs is 2 cores or less for CPU, maximum 128MB for video, and 2GB for RAM.  I haven't experienced any VMs struggling with those resources, FWIW.  Sometimes, I'll only allocate a single core to CPU and/or 1GB or less of RAM, just to see how a "low-resource" distro actually performs with low resources!  For Windows10 in a VM, I might suggest 2 cores and bump the RAM to 4GB, and it should run just fine for you.  If it doesn't, something isn't configured properly, such as forgetting to "enable I/O apic" in VM settings....or not enough video memory, etc...

Lastly, Win10 will require 25GB+ for installation, so you should probably provide it a 50GB+ virtual disk to allow for other software and updates, and "dynamic" disk size.  GOOD LUCK!

#14 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 10:35 AM

I have now signed in using Fedora 25 on Linux Mint 18.1 as host.
Looking at the System Monitor with Chromium running I am using about 1.4 GB of the 2 GB RAM in the machine. That is a fairly heavy footprint with GNOME as the DE. Probably it wouldn't hurt to increase the available RAM a bit.
Edit: Now here in LXLE with the same browser and the System RAM is about 900 MB. Chromium is still a load but the DE is considerably lighter.

Edited by raymac46, 22 April 2017 - 10:42 AM.

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#15 OFFLINE   Hedon James

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 11:05 AM

View Postraymac46, on 22 April 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

I have now signed in using Fedora 25 on Linux Mint 18.1 as host.
Looking at the System Monitor with Chromium running I am using about 1.4 GB of the 2 GB RAM in the machine. That is a fairly heavy footprint with GNOME as the DE. Probably it wouldn't hurt to increase the available RAM a bit.
Edit: Now here in LXLE with the same browser and the System RAM is about 900 MB. Chromium is still a load but the DE is considerably lighter.

And that is EXACTLY why I now use the LXDE desktop!  With 500MB RAM shaved from desktop rendering, with no noted I'll effects whatsoever; I now have an extra 500MB available for grunt work, or even multitasking.  Luv me some LXDE...no looking back!

#16 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 12:40 PM

Yes, Chrome is a beat. Here is my i3wm setup with and without chrome running:

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And that is actually low, a lot of time chrome will eat up around 15gb of ram. Gotta love those memory leaks that no browser has yet to manage.. Of course you really only see them when you are rocking a lot of tabs (I average around 50 at all times).
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"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984

#17 OFFLINE   Hedon James

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 01:41 PM

What do you do that requires approx 50 tabs at any given moment?

I always have at least 2 tabs open, sometimes 4-6, but occasionally 10-15 tabs in heavy research mode.  Can't imagine requiring, or even wanting 50?

Is it a requirement or preference?

#18 OFFLINE   mhbell

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 02:05 PM

View Postraymac46, on 22 April 2017 - 10:35 AM, said:

I have now signed in using Fedora 25 on Linux Mint 18.1 as host.
Looking at the System Monitor with Chromium running I am using about 1.4 GB of the 2 GB RAM in the machine. That is a fairly heavy footprint with GNOME as the DE. Probably it wouldn't hurt to increase the available RAM a bit.
Edit: Now here in LXLE with the same browser and the System RAM is about 900 MB. Chromium is still a load but the DE is considerably lighter.
I am also signed into Fedora on Linux Mint 18.1 with cinnamon desktop. I think my problem is not having the VM setup properly. I still have a lot to learn about using VM's. I am really interested in running a VM in windows 10 and keeping Linux on a separate SSD. right now I have win 10 and Mint as my main OS on one SSD and Mint 18.1 on another SSD with a VM in Mint 18.1 I boot it up with Mint 18.1 on the 1st SSD. I also have 4 ea Sata Hard drive racks with 4 ea sata HDD's. I can swap them out in 2 racks. I also have a 5 terabyte External usb 3.0 Drive for storage. Guess that is why I use GPT and like it so much. Oh and BTW my boat sank along time ago. :fish:
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#19 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 02:13 PM

View PostHedon James, on 22 April 2017 - 01:41 PM, said:

What do you do that requires approx 50 tabs at any given moment?

I always have at least 2 tabs open, sometimes 4-6, but occasionally 10-15 tabs in heavy research mode.  Can't imagine requiring, or even wanting 50?

Is it a requirement or preference?

A little of both. For instance, I have 12 sticky tabs for various places I frequent.
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#20 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 02:57 PM

My boat is mostly rotting on the shoreline. :yes:
Right now I'm back at my main Windows 10 desktop but just booted up in Manjaro with a couple of clicks. Using around 1GB of RAM with Firefox running. I love these Arch flavored distros. One of these days I'll have to reinstall Arch in a VM just for the fun of it.
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#21 OFFLINE   mhbell

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 05:26 PM

View Postraymac46, on 22 April 2017 - 02:57 PM, said:

My boat is mostly rotting on the shoreline. :yes:
Right now I'm back at my main Windows 10 desktop but just booted up in Manjaro with a couple of clicks. Using around 1GB of RAM with Firefox running. I love these Arch flavored distros. One of these days I'll have to reinstall Arch in a VM just for the fun of it.
I am in Manjaro right now in a VM with the cinnamon desktop. so far it is working good. Fedora in a VM is now working better since making a few changes. :teehee:

Uh Oh! Spoke to soon have been unable to get updates keep getting the following error in manjaro cinnamon DE. also Without updates I get cinnamon in rendering mode. Did not have this problem when installed to ssd or hdd.
Mel
error message follows:
Synchronizing package databases...
Error: failed retrieving file 'core.db' from doge.ing.puc.cl : Connection timed out after 30001 milliseconds
Refreshing core...
Error: failed retrieving file 'core.files' from doge.ing.puc.cl : Connection timed out after 30000 milliseconds

Edited by mhbell, 22 April 2017 - 06:00 PM.

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#22 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 09:53 PM

Try this:
sudo pacman-mirrors -g
sudo pacman -Syy
sudo pacman -Syu
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#23 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 10:01 PM

View Postraymac46, on 22 April 2017 - 09:53 PM, said:

Try this:
sudo pacman-mirrors -g
sudo pacman -Syy
sudo pacman -Syu

sudo pacman-mirrors -g

is not a working command anymore.

Personally I either use reflector or rankmirrors:

sudo reflector -l 30 -f 10 --save /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist

Edit /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist.pacnew and then run:

sudo rankmirrors -n 7 /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist.pacnew > /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist

https://wiki.archlin...Sorting_mirrors
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#24 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 10:02 PM

pacman-mirrors -g works just fine in Manjaro.

https://wiki.manjaro...Download_Server

Edited by raymac46, 22 April 2017 - 10:12 PM.

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#25 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 10:04 PM

Then run:

pacman -Syy && pacman -Syu

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"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain." -George Orwell, 1984




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