Hedon James Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I've often speculated that the biggest "issue" with Linux is the fragmentation of package formats, providing a formidable deterrent for software developers to package their offerings for ALL distros. Sometimes I look at the latest & greatest version of something in Arch, and get a little jealous; or a new version of an OpenSUSE tool that I would LOVE to have in Ubuntu, but without switching distros to get it. Could a universal package format make Linux a more attractive target for developers? I think we'll know soon enough, as the latest attempt seems to have solved issues plagued by prior attempts, and the current attempt has the backing/participation of several major distros! When is the last time you heard so many major linux distros agree and cooperate on something? Here it comes: http://www.webupd8.org/2016/06/snaps-become-universal-linux-packages.html#more 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 It sounds good and all but I am a bit hesitate to trust any technology that Canonical controls especially since they made the deal with Microsoft.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon James Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 I'm not sure Canonical "controls" it, as several other distros are on-board with design & implementation. Maybe they do, but if other distro players are on-board, I'd think not. Canonical has taken alot of flak in recent memory for doing their own thing, i.e. developing Unity desktop instead of using Gnome Shell; developing Mir instead of using Wayland; developing Upstart instead of using Systemd or other init scripts (although they've since abandoned Upstart in favor of Systemd, following Debian lead); etc... So other distros being on-board with Canonical's idea is kinda new and novel. I'd like to believe the Unified development will address numerous fragmentation issues in the Linux ecosystem. If not SNAP packages, maybe SNAP will lead to the next generation of solution. I hear ya on the MS shenanigans though. Seems like MS got the bulk of benefits in that deal. Not sure how that benefits linux at all, or even Canonical? Why should we care if MS devs have access to linux tools on Windows? What am I missing in that story? Switch to linux like the rest of us! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Do not forget that they were selling their users to amazon by default at one time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon James Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 Do not forget that they were selling their users to amazon by default at one time... oh yeah...that too! I forgot that one because I knew how to disable it, and DID, before I ever even used it. No doubt, shoulda been "opt-in" instead of "opt-out". On the bright side, it's open source...we found out and fixed it. Anyone wanna speculate on what Windows 10 has the user opted into that they aren't aware of yet? I LOVE open source! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 As of version 16:04, it is still enabled by default (just checked it in virtualbox) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunrat Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I don't like the idea of snap packages. Yes they may be useful for cross-distro installation but they contain all their own libraries so will be much larger than traditional style packages which share libraries. Sure they have there place but not as a replacement for existing package systems. Similar packages exist already. One I have is a standalone Telegram client, which is quite large for what it does. Many rpm packages can already be installed on Debian based system using alien. Bit more of a hassle though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon James Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 As of version 16:04, it is still enabled by default (just checked it in virtualbox) Not supposed to be. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/01/ubuntu-online-search-feature-disabled-16-04 That screenshot of an Amazon icon is just a WebApp shortcut to the Amazon Website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 As of version 16:04, it is still enabled by default (just checked it in virtualbox) Not supposed to be. http://www.omgubuntu...-disabled-16-04 That screenshot of an Amazon icon is just a WebApp shortcut to the Amazon Website. I was wrong then. Sorry, I didn't realize that since I didn't play with it much. Thanks for letting me know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon James Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 As of version 16:04, it is still enabled by default (just checked it in virtualbox) Not supposed to be. http://www.omgubuntu...-disabled-16-04 That screenshot of an Amazon icon is just a WebApp shortcut to the Amazon Website. I was wrong then. Sorry, I didn't realize that since I didn't play with it much. Thanks for letting me know No problem, you're welcome. Go ahead and click on it if you want to...nothing bad will happen...and neither Canonical nor Amazon will ever know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I prefer it just like it is, stuck in a virtual machine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. J Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I've got a funny feeling that cross-distro compatibility is already easier then people think. The first time I tried Slackware (about a year and a half ago at this stage), I installed Libreoffice by extracting an rpm directly into the / directory. Obviously not the way it's supposed to done, but it actually worked! Reminds me of Stallman describing the entire gnu project as "one big hack" (in the documentary ' ', if I'm not mistaken.) Second @Hedon James for the wonders of Open Source Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 If it makes it easier for packagers and repo maintainers I am all for unified packages but as a user? Pfft. I have never had trouble finding what I wanted with deb rpm or pacman tools. If you choose a distro and stay with it you'll learn its package management pretty fast. Even Slackware 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 A good read: Maintainers Matter --The case against upstream packaging 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunrat Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Interesting opinion piece on Snappy from devil, one of the siduction devs - https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&u=https://www.computerbase.de/2016-06/canonicals-aggressives-marketing-nervt/&usg=ALkJrhjNhNegGFeFrZuTlrdPO9HppJygeg Sorry for the translation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon James Posted July 13, 2016 Author Share Posted July 13, 2016 This is typical Linux fragmentation. Competing technologies/methodologies based on differing viewpoints and/or competing self-interests breeds infighting... I have no issues with the first; I totally DO NOT understand the second! Sounds like politics to me..."I've got nothing better to offer, but I'm less of a jerk, so vote for me"... I don't know that SNAP packages are the best solution or not. Perhaps its Flatpaks? Perhaps its AppImages? But since there is no de-facto "standard" yet, I see the competing alternatives as a good thing. Much like RPM vs Deb vs Source Tarballs. However, while these package formats require the "buy in" of a package manager's eco-system, I see snaps, flatpaks, and/or appimages as a distro-agnostic solution that can only lower the barrier for software entry. As a user, I'm in agreement with the above-poster who stated they weren't fond of duplicate libraries on their system. But I temper that downside with the upside potential of receiving packages that aren't normally available in a particular distro, or even in Linux?! Most of US can Alien a foreign package, or chase down dependencies, or compile what we want from source. But there are many more who cannot; they rely on click here installations from software centers, or synaptic-like download/installations, or perhaps even command line installations. But CREATING their own packages? Forget it...not gonna happen. And expecting them to learn HOW before they're allowed to have those packages sounds a little elitist and exclusionary to me. RTFM much?! LOL! Which is where I see the REAL benefit of snaps, flatpaks, and appimages...on the DEVELOPER side. I see this as an encouragement for developers to release Linux versions of their softwares. How many times have we heard that vendors don't want to release Linux versions because they're maintenance nightmares? IF a linux version is available, it is usually in a DEB or a RPM file; sometimes both; but they are geared to Debian/Ubuntu and Red Hat users. If your chosen distro doesn't adhere very closely to the base directory & file structure, you may encounter issues, even though Deb or RPM is your native package format. And if a vendor is truly linux-friendly, they'll also provide a source tarball so you can compile it yourself, and they'll wish you luck with your creation...but not much more. If they can release ONE version that is distro-agnostic and works on all distros, I see that "lowering the barrier of entry" as a net positive to encourage MORE developers/vendors to release their offerings as a single Linux package for all Linux distros. I don't know that we WOULD be offered software that is currently the exclusive domain of Windows or Mac users, but at least the opportunity would be increased. So now we have 3 competing technologies/methodologies for the same end result. Or maybe all 3 are flawed in some fatal fashion, which gives rise to a fourth that takes the prize?! The best idea should mature and win, while the other(s) whither on the vine. I'm okay with that. That sounds like progress to me... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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