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Is windows 10 for me?


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#26 OFFLINE   jeffw_00

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Posted 04 June 2016 - 01:41 PM

Ok - the answer is Windows 10 is NOT for me (at least yet).  I've tried upgrading a few machines.  In all cases i went back to Windows 7.   Reasons include

a) stronger "rules".  I want updates applied on MY schedule, not theirs (I wait until right AFTER a daily image backup).   I DON'T want Windows Defender.  If I wanted "their way or the highway" I'd use a Mac :-}.

b ) Much slower boot. I don't know what it's doing after I get my desktop, but the time from getting the desktop to having all the startup programs (antivirus, etc) running, is much longer than windows 7.  (like a minute).

c) less stable O/S.  In using it for an hour on different machines, I experienced complete hangs and bad process prioritizing (I had a backup validation which used a lot of memory keep me from doing ANYTHING else, including getting to the CTRL/ALT/DEL menu - it hung up preparing the menu until the validate completed.  This app (IFW) shares just fine on Win7).  Also, seems like there's a lot of busy background processes slowing stuff down, preventing backups from even starting (they need other processes to stop writing to disk).

d) On one machine, running my backup program (IFW) in Win 10, it claimed I had bad sectors on my disk.  I tried running chkdsk (annoying to use because you can't see details), and it appeared to hang (!).  I reverted to Win 7, and both the chkdsk and backup ran clean.

Here's hoping W10 is more stable by 2019.  I'm sticking to Win7 until then.  I have better things to do with my life than wrestle with the O/S.   Win 7 just seems less ambitious and so less troublesome.  

Just my $.02.  I respect that others may disagree. :-}
/j


PS - my main machine is a 64b i5-2500 @3.3GHz - not an old or slow machine

Edited by jeffw_00, 04 June 2016 - 02:09 PM.


#27 OFFLINE   goretsky

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 03:34 AM

Hello,

On the plus side, you've enabled digital entitlement on the computers, so when you are ready to upgrade to Microsoft Windows 10 it will still be a free on those systems.  For that matter, you'll now be able to do a clean install of Windows 10 on those computers, which I suspect will remediate several of the issues you noted, such as the slow boot problem.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky
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Aryeh Goretsky
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#28 OFFLINE   jeffw_00

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 09:58 AM

Thanks Aryeh - and you're correct.  But I hope to be able to do an upgrade to a more stable version when the time comes.  We use our PCs for business, and the "clean install" we were forced to do to Windows 7 (first time since Win95) took an entire day :-{.

#29 OFFLINE   goretsky

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 02:12 AM

Hello,

Paper finally published:  http://www.welivesec...eview-analysis/

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky
Dexter is a good dog.

Aryeh Goretsky
Microsoft MVP 2004.1-2018.6 [Cloud and Datacenter Management]

(previously Networking, Windows, Windows for Devices and IT)
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#30 OFFLINE   jeffw_00

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Posted 18 June 2016 - 10:41 AM

Hi Aryeh - Great paper - (admittedly I've read only sections so far - but have put aside to finish later).  However, you highlight the problem I have with Window 10.  I have little control over my smartphone.  Upgrades are forced on me (thank you Verizon), whenever they feel like it.  Privacy is problematical, and I learn to do things Android's way.  But I'm cool with that, because I don't use my phone for much.  I think Microsoft looked at that model (which Apple got everyone acclimated to for phones), and said - "hey - let's use that too.  The more we control, the happier most people are".  That may indeed be true, while the minority "roots" their phone and has it their way.

However, unlike with my phone, with my desktop PC, I'm a fanatical power user, and I'm accustomed to having it set up and run EXACTLY the way I want it to (thank you Perl scripting).  So, for example, all updates happen only the morning after the weekly full backup.  Windows 10 wants to take some of this control away from me, and there's no easy way to "root" my PC.  So I'm staying with Windows 7, where I'm in charge, until they pry it from my cold dead hands (well, until Microsoft stops supporting it, I'm not a total idiot :-}).  

Anyway- thanks for the paper, and thanks everyone for listening :-}

best
/j

#31 OFFLINE   goretsky

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 02:48 AM

Hello,

Yep.

Microsoft's reasoning is that they've had a fragmentation problem within Windows.  Too many users didn't upgrade from Windows XP, and the same problem repeated itself with Windows 7.  With Windows 10, home users and small businesses who don't get the Enterprise SKU will only have one version of Windows 10 available to them:  The latest version.

This is not so much about "control" as it is having to spread resources supporting multiple versions of Windows.  Currently, between all the desktop and server Windows operating systems, CPU platforms, languages, editions and service pack levels, Microsoft has to support several thousand different builds of Windows.  This maybe gets them down into the low thousands or maybe even hundreds of different builds.  Having to test every single patch across that plethora of OSes is... difficult.

I would imagine this is something analogous to what Apple does, with its customers usually upgrading rapidly to the latest version of Mac OS X (or macOS, as I guess it's now called), iOS and so forth.

Keep in mind that if you do want that granular level of control, you could look into enterprise licensing.  I believe they start for as little as five (5) computers.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky

View Postjeffw_00, on 18 June 2016 - 10:41 AM, said:

Hi Aryeh - Great paper - (admittedly I've read only sections so far - but have put aside to finish later).  However, you highlight the problem I have with Window 10.  I have little control over my smartphone.  Upgrades are forced on me (thank you Verizon), whenever they feel like it.  Privacy is problematical, and I learn to do things Android's way.  But I'm cool with that, because I don't use my phone for much.  I think Microsoft looked at that model (which Apple got everyone acclimated to for phones), and said - "hey - let's use that too.  The more we control, the happier most people are".  That may indeed be true, while the minority "roots" their phone and has it their way.

However, unlike with my phone, with my desktop PC, I'm a fanatical power user, and I'm accustomed to having it set up and run EXACTLY the way I want it to (thank you Perl scripting).  So, for example, all updates happen only the morning after the weekly full backup.  Windows 10 wants to take some of this control away from me, and there's no easy way to "root" my PC.  So I'm staying with Windows 7, where I'm in charge, until they pry it from my cold dead hands (well, until Microsoft stops supporting it, I'm not a total idiot :-}).  

Anyway- thanks for the paper, and thanks everyone for listening :-}

best
/j

Dexter is a good dog.

Aryeh Goretsky
Microsoft MVP 2004.1-2018.6 [Cloud and Datacenter Management]

(previously Networking, Windows, Windows for Devices and IT)
FacebookGoogle+ personal blogpersonal websiteTwitter work blog

#32 OFFLINE   jeffw_00

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 09:54 AM

Thanks Aryeh - although by "control" I was thinking more of the options they took away from you inside the program, rather than revision control.  I don't think even the enterprise version gives you all the "knobs" back :-}

best
/j

#33 OFFLINE   goretsky

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 12:39 AM

Hello,

Well, if you license the Windows 10 Enterprise edition and install the Long Term Servicing Branch, you could install the RTM build of Windows and never apply an update to it.  You might continue to receive certificate revocation lists and signature updates for Windows Defender, though.

Regards,

Aryeh Goretsky
Dexter is a good dog.

Aryeh Goretsky
Microsoft MVP 2004.1-2018.6 [Cloud and Datacenter Management]

(previously Networking, Windows, Windows for Devices and IT)
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#34 OFFLINE   crp

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 06:53 AM

Even home users will be allowed to push off updates for a period of time. not too long, probably about a month. There will also be an option to change when the update application reboot occurs.
What i found interesting was the slower bootup times mentioned. In all the pc's i've move to W10 the bootups were faster , even those with lots of things to strap on. How much RAM are on the pc's with slower boot times - any pattern?
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. ~C. S. Lewis




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