Scot Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 The next version of Windows, codenamed "Longhorn," is scheduled for a late 2004 release. A lot of information has leaked out about it in recent weeks and months. Probably the must fundamental is that Microsoft is adding an all new file system that's designed from the ground up to facilitate a far more natural search-based interface. It also has new hardware requirements. And many other details are surfacing too. What have you heard about it? And have you seen stories about it anywhere out there that do a good job of telling about it?This Link of the Week article from the current (coming) Scot's Newsletter has a section on Longhorn that's interesting:http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#longhornIf Microsoft actually delivers in Longhorn what people say they're in the process of delivering, I think many, many people won't upgrade, and will increasingly turn to Linux. But most people still get their operating systems with new PCs. Since Microsoft has a hammerlock on that area, many people will wind up with Windows 2005 or whatever they call it.One thing's for sure, it's going to get interesting.-- Scot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havnblast Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 I can't see people going for a subscription based Operating System or software. Nobody wants to pay the high price for initial cost and than have to renew it regularily.This kinda system will drive consumers to alternative operating systems. I dual boot with RedHat 8.0 and I love it, RH has come along way from the previous versions. The RPM packages are easy to install and with all the packages available it makes it really nice.I can do what I want to do in Windows just as easily in RH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zox Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 I am long time Windows supporter, and always kept fixing other peoples computers.I was always convinced it is not the system but people.Now especially with Longhorn and all this talk about Palladium and so on, I have Dual boot Suse/XP, under both Windows and Linux my default browser is Phoenix, I am intensivly looking for another E-mail client to be my default, and eventually one day to switch completly to Linux.This is rather big step and especially since I still feel that Linux is not 100% ready for desktop but it's coming very close.I'll keep my eye on it and hopefully switch soon enough.At work my main station is Mac so I will be 100% Microshaft free :)By the way I have interesting link for you Scot and for everyone else.I found it the other day on "The Register".Be warned, it's a long read.http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#altpath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scot Posted March 17, 2003 Author Share Posted March 17, 2003 Havnblast, I can't see people going for a subscription based Operating System or software.For what it's worth, me either. However, I don't think it's a done deal that Microsoft will be making Longhorn subscription-based software. In fact, I kind of doubt that it will. I think their idea for a long time has been to use components in Longhorn to help them support (and enforce) a subscription-software software business model. But in recent months, Microsoft has backed away from subscription-oriented software, cancelling the OfficeLite product, as well as terminating subscription-based Office XP that was offered overseas, according to published reports. I think this is still a big question mark.Subscription-based software is far more interesting to corporations than end users. To a big company, a subscription is sort of like a lease. It doesn't have to spend the big money all at once upfront. But can spread out payments over time. While most end-users feel ripped off by it (including me), some companies prefer it.So, anyway, I think it's too early to call just how much Longhorn will enable or inflict subscription-based software. Certainly, many software companies are flirting with this. It ain't just Microsoft, I'm sorry to say.-- Scot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThunderRiver Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 That article is abit misleading. I don't think that person knows what he is talking about regarding SQL database codenamed Yukon. It is a built in serach engine that lets user search files right from just ONE single place. It makes search much easier since you can search for your email data files as well as pics, word documents, and many other types of file formats. Microsoft doesn't take away users files by making a centralized server that stores people's data. Instead, subscription services are available from 3rd parties as well, not exclusive to Microsoft. It is Bill Gates' dream to make Longhorn an OS that attracts both developers and users. For users, Longhorn provides ease of use and provide users with a way to spend more time with their data, rather than organizing files on their hard drive. For developers, they now have strong incentives to develop softwares using the native Longhorn API (codenamed Avalon Framework), and with the help of palladium, developers can develop softwars that are either subscribable to users or available for retail purchase. The result is less piracy and less virus that can go around to destroys people's data. I have been in research for Longhorn for quite sometime, and I can say I know alot about it. Currently build leakage 4008 is still an early stage of Longhorn development, and that's why it is still called Alpha. As beta versions roll out to Beta testers, we will be excited to see how things go with Longhorn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scot Posted March 19, 2003 Author Share Posted March 19, 2003 (edited) Interesting points, ThunderRiver. I'm not sure I'm sold on some of the premises behind Longhorn yet, but I agree it's hard to argue with the search improvements, which clearly any OS could benefit from. It makes a lot of sense to build this into the operating system. And Linux has nothing like that, at least not yet.I was looking at the XBetas forum (which I think you're familiar with) and found a post there about a new leak of Longhorn with screenshots:http://www.wxperience.de/wsa_main.php?mode...3&dispsize=1024From the posts there, this does not appear to be the real deal. Looking at the pics, i'm a little dubious myself. Anyone know of any place where real Longhorn pics exist? If so, please post 'em here.-- Scot Edited March 19, 2003 by scot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThunderRiver Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Hehe.. very nice Photoshop skill, but no, it is fake. One thing I noticed is that the background wallpaper is M3 wallpaper (Milestone 3 development). 4008 is M4, so it has different default wallpaper. Also the "plex" theme in the pictures doesn't look right.Also, quotes from http://www.lhfiles.tk/ This build IS a fake, It was checked it out and this build was from November 2002 and a later build then 4008 which was recently leaked onto the net. To explain, 4183a is numerically later than 4008 but 4008 was built last month and leaked. So I wouldn't think Microsoft would go from 4183a to 4008. There you have it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthonyd Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 I read the Longhorn portion of the article. I don't know if the writer has a good track record in predicting where technology will lead, but I find it hard to swallow that Microsoft is going to release a totally incompatible OS on the world...how many corporate clients are going to upgrade their critical apps to be compatible? How much money will be spent converting home-grown apps to be compatible? It doesn't make sense at all. I *can* see MS including an option to use a newer (perhaps incompatible) file format, but to totally mandate it? I don't think so. But of course I could be wrong.I would use Windows NT as an example though. It was fairly incompatible with most stuff out there when it was first released. It probably gained wider use when Windows 9x line was released and really took off with Windows 2000 and Windows XP (and note that each version of NT was made more and more compatible to the extent that you can play GAMES on Windows XP)...so, MS is now going to chuck this out the window (no pun intended!) to wiggle around a DoJ decree??? I'm not buying it (literally and figuratively) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannySmurf Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 I read the Longhorn portion of the article. I don't know if the writer has a good track record in predicting where technology will lead, but I find it hard to swallow that Microsoft is going to release a totally incompatible OS on the world...how many corporate clients are going to upgrade their critical apps to be compatible? How much money will be spent converting home-grown apps to be compatible? It doesn't make sense at all. I *can* see MS including an option to use a newer (perhaps incompatible) file format, but to totally mandate it? I don't think so. But of course I could be wrong.I would use Windows NT as an example though. It was fairly incompatible with most stuff out there when it was first released. It probably gained wider use when Windows 9x line was released and really took off with Windows 2000 and Windows XP (and note that each version of NT was made more and more compatible to the extent that you can play GAMES on Windows XP)...so, MS is now going to chuck this out the window (no pun intended!) to wiggle around a DoJ decree??? I'm not buying it (literally and figuratively)I doubt they'll drop the name Windows. It's much too well-known.About incompatibility, what the article says is possible. But there are different degrees of incompatibility. Requiring all current programs to be totally rewritten to support the new file system is one thing. And I doubt that Microsoft would do that myself.But it's possible that Microsoft will work it out so that existing apps will simply require a recompile for the new OS. Visual Studio.NET 2005 (or whatever) could simply convert all of the Win32 API calls in the program code into Longhorn API calls when it's compiling. The OS may not be backward-compatible. But that doesn't mean that the development tools won't be.--Danny Smurf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThunderRiver Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Here is an archive of all the default wallpaper from leaked longhorn buildsMilestone 3 - Builds 3683Milestone 3 - Builds 3718Milestone 4 - Builds 4008Please note that Longhorn hasn't gone beta yet. Hopefully by mid-summer, beta testing should kick start! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThunderRiver Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 And also, build 4008 desktop shot. It doesn't show much changes besides the sidebar and also, the new integrated search feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibe98765 Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 CNET has a review of Longhorn. I'm not sure about this new "non-organized" file system though. It's hard to believe that I could find what I want from among the 120,000 odd files on my system. Over the years, I've developed a system that works well for me for organizing files and folders so I can find them. For instance, free/shareware that I download is installed in a very specific folder structure on a separate logical disk and the associated base file (.zip, etc.) is appended to the master folder in a .ZIP folder. This makes it easy for me to reinstall stuff when necessary. I fear that this future file system is going to relegate everything to a single file metaphor. How will grouping be handled? I hope they provide for "classic" file organization in case the new organization doesn't meet everyone's requirements. CNET | SOFTWARE NEWSLETTERSneak peek at the next Windows OSMarch 31, 2003 Vol. 5, No. 11If you're finally getting around to thinking aboutinstalling Windows XP, we suggest that you kick back and waita little bit longer. Why? Aside from the fact that the operating system costs upwards of $170, it turns out that a brand-new Windows OS is already in the works. Code-named Longhorn, the next iteration of Windows is rumored to be versionless, so you won't have to choose between, say, Home and Professional copies (and prices). Recently, an early incarnation of the nascent OS leaked onto the Internet. We took a look.Windows Longhorn First Take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThunderRiver Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Currently, you can go back to classic file system if you like, but I would say, give it a try! You have nothing to lose anway do ya?Over the years, I have also developed a system of my own for organizing my files. Nonetheless, sometimes I wonder where I put my files when I actually needed it. Longhorn actually makes it simple for user to find their stuff. You might wonder how it works. Well, two words. SQL and XML. XML stores data, and SQL processes it and make it more organized for you. 10 years ago, Windows codenamed Cairo (supposed to be Windows NT 3.5) tried to achieve the similar feature, but they indeed failed, and the result was Daytona (new NT 3.5). Over the years, a lot of features from Cairo is implemented in NT4 as well as NT5 (Windows 2000). So it is about time that MS do something about the feature they once failed before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThunderRiver Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 On the side note, Microsoft will drop the naming system for drives, such as C:\ D:\ and so on.It is unsure of what the new system will be, but they plan to make it so that you can have unlimited amount of drive letters which will obviously not be limited to Z:\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havnblast Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 It's next version of windows that makes me consider linux even more. RedHat 8.0 does a great job and I am very curious to see RedHat 9.0 and to get the new KDE desktop. I wouldn't doubt one bit if MS tries to make other software makers to change programming. Look at .Net it is a burden for Visual Basic 6.0 and older. Some programs won't even install if you don't have the .Net framework. MS gets you one way or another to hand over the money and upgrade. It's another reason I won't spend the money on getting certified. Everything retires and MS keeps coming up with more and more. I am just gratefull there are alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThunderRiver Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 It's next version of windows that makes me consider linux even more. RedHat 8.0 does a great job and I am very curious to see RedHat 9.0 and to get the new KDE desktop. I wouldn't doubt one bit if MS tries to make other software makers to change programming. Look at .Net it is a burden for Visual Basic 6.0 and older. Some programs won't even install if you don't have the .Net framework. MS gets you one way or another to hand over the money and upgrade. It's another reason I won't spend the money on getting certified. Everything retires and MS keeps coming up with more and more. I am just gratefull there are alternatives.Moving onto .NET platform is necessary, because it is faster and more reliable. It is free as well. The API is already being shared by Antivirus Vendors. You can expect to have fully compatible programs once Longhorn is out.Linux is only an alternative. There are a lot of things in Longhorn, that Linux can't even match. Longhorn is going to have build in SQL engine. What does Linux have to beat that? MySQL?..nah, I think I will pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 I have been thinking about moving to Linux but have not done so yet. Most likely when the Longhorn and Palladium combination become a reality, I will make the switch. Maybe even before then.As most people have indicated M$ has definitely not earned my trust. I keep seeing them produce supposed upgrades to Office that add many (to me) useless bells and whilstles while not fixing the annoyances that have existed for a number of versions. Often the new versions are really bug fixes with the added junk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThunderRiver Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Microsoft may not earn your trust, and it may not earn my trust either, but it is still good to know they are heading in the right direction, trying to make products as safe and reliable as possible.I would say that Microsoft Office is not that bad, and a lot of brilliant feature in Office 2003 is something you can't find in any other alternatives. So it is up to your to decide to stick with Windows in the future or not. I would stay in both sides, getting benefited from both Windows and *NIX world, so...that's all I have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havnblast Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Well yes I agree doing both worlds, because when your into the computer business you need to know how MS OSs work before you can fix em. I am sure I will always have a copy of the OSs that do come out installed some where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThunderRiver Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 Well yes I agree doing both worlds, because when your into the computer business you need to know how MS OSs work before you can fix em. I am sure I will always have a copy of the OSs that do come out installed some where.Of couse, I know my OS :)Even if I don't have any spare machines, I use VMWare to have most OS installed, so I can guide users to fix their computer easily. I even have Knoppix handy so I can mount NTFS under Linux.. quite niffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkweather Posted April 6, 2003 Share Posted April 6, 2003 Paul Thurrott has some Longhorn info on his SuperSite for Windows:Longhorn Alpha PreviewLonghorn Alpha Preview 2: Build 4008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThunderRiver Posted April 6, 2003 Share Posted April 6, 2003 Paul Thurrott has some Longhorn info on his SuperSite for Windows:Longhorn Alpha PreviewLonghorn Alpha Preview 2: Build 4008 Yeah Paul does have something new every once awhile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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