raymac46 Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 OK OK I finally admit it - I'm never going to be a Linux geek. All I want at my advanced age is to use something stable for email, Web surfing, blogging, and spreadsheets. I've played around with Arch and Slackware, had Manjaro for a while on my "holiday" laptop but once again I had trouble with a Manjaro update yesterday - GPG keys just don't get along with me. I want to take this laptop away with me soon, and I don't want stability issues somewhere in Europe - so it was back to Linux Mint 17. I'll still have fun with the bleeding edge stuff but I'll confine it to VBox for now where I can just nuke it from orbit if it doesn't work. Pretty pathetic after close to 10 years but hey...at least it's not Windows 10. And I can use apt in the terminal if I want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted October 20, 2016 Author Share Posted October 20, 2016 And go figure. I just did a complete manjaro update in VBox with no problems at all. Posting from it now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 It's all that patching that Manjaro does... it tends to mess up the package management. You know I had to.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 I tell folks all the time, Ray... "Use what's best for you." That's sound advice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share Posted October 21, 2016 My problem (or maybe feature) is that I do not run any computer in my house in isolation. My wife uses them (both Linux and Windows) and the grandkids play browser based games on every machine except a couple of old 32 bit junkers that are lucky to run AntiX. Even my somewhat decent Linux netbook that goes away on holiday has to suit my wife - and she doesn't like change when it comes to technology. So the past of least resistance is to go with Linux Mint - it looks enough like Windows that everyone is happy. I also OSS-ify my Windows machine so that they have to use Chrome or Firefox. Changing should be seamless or at least relatively painless. Most of the time when grandkids are here one is playing Cat in the Hat in Linux and the other Star Wars in Windows - or vice versa. I can experiment with other distros in VBox as that is my domain and the visitors and cohabiting user don't know squat about it. I'll keep it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlim Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I'm never going to be a Linux geek Ah, but you are! Reading about how you set up a new AIO HP device to work at the preschool sealed it.The best I could manage to do is get an ordinary networked printer working on an old version of linux. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon James Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 My problem (or maybe feature) is that I do not run any computer in my house in isolation. My wife uses them (both Linux and Windows) and the grandkids play browser based games on every machine except a couple of old 32 bit junkers that are lucky to run AntiX. Even my somewhat decent Linux netbook that goes away on holiday has to suit my wife - and she doesn't like change when it comes to technology. So the past of least resistance is to go with Linux Mint - it looks enough like Windows that everyone is happy. I also OSS-ify my Windows machine so that they have to use Chrome or Firefox. Changing should be seamless or at least relatively painless. Most of the time when grandkids are here one is playing Cat in the Hat in Linux and the other Star Wars in Windows - or vice versa. I can experiment with other distros in VBox as that is my domain and the visitors and cohabiting user don't know squat about it. I'll keep it that way. I do the same thing buddy! I rarely work on Windows anymore. My circle of support grew too large, and I just don't have the time anymore. I've told everyone "if you want me to look at your computer issues, you need to be using what I'm using. If you wanna run Windows, that's fine, but don't be pissed off at me because Microsoft found a new way to crash your system...take it to Staples, or Geek Squad. If you wanna buy Apple products, that's fine too....but take it to the genius bar and let the geniuses figure it out." Ironically, for the most part, the Linux users in my circle don't ask for much once they're up & running. I still get some user-space questions for awhile after I train them how to use it, how to do things, and help them set up systems, but that's to be expected. Once they "settle in", the requests trickle to almost nothing! As for the Windows hold outs (and OSX users for that matter!), I typically recommend they switch from MS products to OSS versions: - swap Internet Explorer & Edge for Firefox or Chrome - swap Outlook for Thunderbird - swap Office for LibreOffice Most folks are THRILLED to know there's a free version of something that saves them from buying expensive proprietary software. Others insist on using the expensive software because they "already paid for it anyways", so they insist on getting their money's worth. But if they've switched to something I recommended that's cross platform, sometimes I can still help 'em, based on my familiarity with those software programs. But I'm not going to keep abreast of Microsoft idiosyncracies for the sole purpose of providing free tech support to others, when I don't even use it myself. I'll still help if I can, but if I can't diagnose a familiar software issue in short order, they need to let MS or Mac earn their money. I just don't have the time anymore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Unfortunately I have to run and support Win 7 Enterprise at work. At least I can do my work in Chrome as well. Well technically I could install anything on my machine as I have admin creds but still have to use outlook and skype unfortunately. I do have other machines to play with but my assigned machine runs Win 7 Enterprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I make sure to install Chrome on everyone's machine though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunrat Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I don't consider myself a Linux geek,I personally know a Debian dev and much of what he says when we chat goes straight over my head. I try to help on Debian user forums. Can get frustrating - yesterday someone posted a vague reference to startup errors followed by a 2,000 word religious rant. My reply was "So what is your question?" I previously considered myself a KDE diehard, but since discovering MX I am using it with Xfce happily although I miss some KDE programs such as Dolphin, Konsole, K3b and SoundKonverter. I mentioned it to an MX dev and he says he uses Dolphin (KDE4 version) on MX! So will do that soon. Plasma 5 is excellent but still rough around the edges so I will probably switch to that in the future, maybe when MX does a respin. They already have a KDE4 respin. Interestingly, my Debian dev friend won't go near KDE. He says the KDE devs are weird and impossible to work with! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Interestingly, my Debian dev friend won't go near KDE. He says the KDE devs are weird and impossible to work with! Ha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 ...I am using it with Xfce happily although I miss some KDE programs... Why are you doing without your fav KDE programs? I run Slackware with Xfce, but I also have K3B, Kget, Amarok, Ktorrent, Caligra, etc. Of course, it's easy to do that in Slackware because the installation medium provides for KDE, Xfce, and other windows managers. I just choose to install all the KDE stuff, but xinit is set to start Xfce as my desktop. Once Xfce is started, the KDE apps are all available within my Xfce menu. Couldn't you do something like that in MX, too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Yeah, you can mix gnome(gtk) and kde (qt) apps in any environment. There are only a couple of graphical applications that I use but some are qt and some are gtk which work fine on i3wm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunrat Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Why are you doing without your fav KDE programs? Laziness! I know I can install them. I run Slackware with Xfce, but I also have K3B, Kget, Amarok, Ktorrent, Caligra, etc. I just use wget, DeadBeef and Clementine and mpv (although Amarok is the best), LibreOffice. qBittorrent is just as good as Ktorrent, don't like Transmission though which is MX default.K3b and Konsole and Dolphin are miles better than Xfburn and Xfce Terminal and Thunar, so I will be installing them soon. After next system backup (see above laziness). Stevo, one of the MX devs, said he uses Dolphin in Xfce after I mentioned it once. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Ray, Linux Mint has been so stable and reliable that I've standardized on it. I have it on simply everything. Problems are pretty rare... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebrke Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 No one around here except maybe Rejean seems to use it any more, but OpenSuSE has always been wonderfully stable and dependable for me, although certainly not cutting edge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crp Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 How did Debian get involved with the issue that it was the subject? I much prefer Chromium over Chrome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 No one around here except maybe Rejean seems to use it any more, but OpenSuSE has always been wonderfully stable and dependable for me, although certainly not cutting edge. I never used it as a primary OS, but I was always impressed with it. It is, of course, an early fork of Slackware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Same here, CRP. I've been using Chromium up until recently (the last week, actually). I had to switch over to FF for a while because the current version of Chrome and Chromium will not function properly on my Slackware system. They are crashing with numerous errors. I tried to build my own. I tried existing builds made by others. No joy! They all crash and burn. I reinstalled version 52.x.x.x, but figured I play around with FF for a while. I have FF set up to be almost identical to the way my Chromium was set up; extensions and all. Unfortunately, FF is still a fat, bloated, slow browser in comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 I have not stopped supporting Windows (use it myself) but I've told most folks I only do Windows 10 now. As for Apple I only work on very basic networking and package installs. I don't have any Apple stuff in my house. I don't refuse to help anyone local because the people who need it are so clueless they'll get totally ripped off by Best Buy or Staples or Genius service. I use Chrome mostly because that works fine in Windows and I want the same look and feel in Linux. Chromium is an excellent substitute though and I have that installed on a couple of older 32 bit machines that run AntiX. Most tech support these days has more to do with wifi than anything else. I'd like to move on to Linux Mint 18 but I've had some wifi glitches I don't like on old wifi adapters - even Atheros has given issues. It seems to work OK on the live ISO but often won't connect after installation. I'm waiting another 6 months to see what'll happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon James Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) I have not stopped supporting Windows (use it myself) but I've told most folks I only do Windows 10 now. As for Apple I only work on very basic networking and package installs. I don't have any Apple stuff in my house. I don't refuse to help anyone local because the people who need it are so clueless they'll get totally ripped off by Best Buy or Staples or Genius service. I use Chrome mostly because that works fine in Windows and I want the same look and feel in Linux. Chromium is an excellent substitute though and I have that installed on a couple of older 32 bit machines that run AntiX. Most tech support these days has more to do with wifi than anything else. I'd like to move on to Linux Mint 18 but I've had some wifi glitches I don't like on old wifi adapters - even Atheros has given issues. It seems to work OK on the live ISO but often won't connect after installation. I'm waiting another 6 months to see what'll happen. I salute your efforts Ray. I don't refuse to help or support those folks, I'll do what I can, but as I become further & further removed from Windows usage, it becomes harder & harder to provide that support. And I have less & less "free time" to do it. It's not an exaggeration to state that "free Windows tech support" was cutting into my business work week (I'm self-employed...no work, no pay!), which caused my work week to wipe out my "free time." I just don't have the time to spend hours googling Windows issues, and trying solutions until we find what works. And the introduction of Windows 10 has introduced a whole new set of issues that I have ZERO experience with, and at a moment where my time is more valuable than it has ever been. Bad combination. I was "losing" more money "not working" than Staples/Best Buy would've earned; and my quality of life had plummeted to "sucks". And folks were getting PISSED at me for not being able to help them ON DEMAND. Biting the hand that feeds them... If someone has an issue, I'll do my best to resolve quickly. But if I can't help them quickly, I refuse to reallocate hours of irreplaceable time to troubleshoot an OS that I don't have and probably never will. All because they insisted on purchasing an OS that I advised them against. Of course, they're entitled to purchase and use whatever they want, and I respect that. But their choices DO NOT obligate me to do anything to accommodate them. As a microcosm of today's society in general, a small contingent has somehow become ENTITLED to whatever they want, whenever they want. And if their expectations are not met, they're somehow being treated unfairly. Not sure how it got to that point, but it only continues if I allow it. So I don't anymore. I'm no longer willing to give up my "down time" or my "free time", as I need that time to recharge. Apparently I'm an *******. Lucky for me, I can live with that assessment. Matter of fact, quality of life has improved somewhat, since that diagnosis was rendered.... Edited October 24, 2016 by Hedon James 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 @HJ I certainly understand where you are coming from; in fact you are probably like this UK fellow whose blog I read: http://liberate.life/ Well worth checking out if you're still gainfully employed. Much different for me. I do have the time, it doesn't take away from my real job since I'm long ago retired. Andy (the UK firmware engineer) has a small computer service business but he tries to de-emphasize it. However he makes 'em pay. I think in your case I would make it clear that any time you spend on PC service has to be compensated somehow. Especially if you sacrifice free time or billable time to do it. Note we do have a couple of small time computer service geeks where I live and I never compete with them. I don't advertise and basically do it for friends of my wife or myself. I can tell if someone is able to afford to pay and I don't go out of my way to set up such folks. There are enough screw-ups around here with relatively impoverished seniors to keep me busy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt.Crow Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Yep concur. Had a little friction last Friday. A friend blew his win os. When I got there I was asked to help . Every time I mentioned what I intended to do ,I got screams of panic . You'd swear I was pulling teeth or taking out his appendix without ane3sthetic . So I just stopped and got out a bottle of whiskey . Much better fun . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Outside of work this is what I usually sat: "I can install Linux for free and you won't have to worry about viruses, malware, spyware etc. or you can pay me $75 (or more) to fix windows. It's up to you". 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebrke Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 It is, of course, an early fork of Slackware. I never knew that--interesting! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt.Crow Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) Bet this makes heads nod . Couple of years ago ,before I immersed in Linux completely. A friend who lectured in a top flight college handed me her company laptop.It had borked badly on a Thursday,was due in for a *service* the following Monday. But the lady had a ton of work to do to be prepared for the start of lessons. She handed it to me and roughly an hour and a half later all was well having used a couple of non win programmes. I cleaned up and wiped as much of my traces as I could . On the Mon it was handed in for the tech dept to do their thing. When they were handing it back to her she was asked who had set it up for her . Then she was told to ask me would I like to come and work there. lol.They never did find out how I "fixed" it. Edited October 24, 2016 by Capt.Crow 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted October 24, 2016 Author Share Posted October 24, 2016 Much as I'd love to get everyone in my sphere of influence to use Linux I have found that it just won't happen. My successful Linux installations fall into three classes: Older impoverished ladies who don't have a computer at all, or need to replace a piece of junk and can't afford it. Owners of an older XP desktop who buy a Win 10 laptop and want to repurpose the desktop. Really desperate institutions like the preschool.They just need to get stuff done and Linux will do it. Most people find the prospect of Linux daunting (they haven't tried it but will spend $1000s on a new Mac.) Or they have one dumb program they won't give up (like Adobe Digital Editions.) Ontario library boards should be shot because they don't have an open source alternative for e-books.Or users want to use Windows Mail or Edge (why?) Be that as it may you'll never get the average Windows user to change to Linux. Maybe it's because it's free; They don't mind paying for Android or Chrome O/S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 It is, of course, an early fork of Slackware. I never knew that--interesting! Yup. See here --> Linux Tree 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Of course, that Linux Tree is a bit outdated. There are a lot more Linux branches these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Well in my experiences, most people just need a web browser as that is pretty much all they use nowadays anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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