Frank Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Does anyone have any comments about the new inkjet printers and refilling the cartridges? I just bought a new HP deskjet 3820. A couple of days ago, I refilled the cartridge and it works great. However, from what I've been hearing, the new printers have a chip on them that monitors how long you had the cartridge. After awhile a message will pop up telling you that the cartridge has expired and can no longer be used. A work around is to set the date back on your computer to a different year. I haven't had my printer very long so I don't know if mine has that chip in it or not. Anybody have any comments on this?Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ComputerBob Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Yikes, I hadn't heard of that particular "feature." If that's true, it sounds like the printer manufacturer's blatant attempt to sell their own ink at ~$200/gallon. I've been refilling my ink cartridges in my old HP DeskJet 500 for the past several years, and I've never had any problems at all, despite some manufacturers' fear mongering claims about the "dangers" of doing so.I would never buy a printer that was designed to force me to buy new ink cartridges, and I hope it turns out that yours doesn't do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbeL Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 From what I've read not all manufacturers do this (should I add "yet"? ).The only one I've heard that definately does add a chip in the cartridge is Lexmark. And its not time dependent, rather it detects whether the cartridge has been refilled, and if so, it won't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havnblast Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 hmmmm - that don't sound good at all. It should be our choice to refill or not, I've been refilling mine for many years instead of buying a $30.00 cartridge everytime. A refill kit lasts me a long time and works great. I would never own a Lexmark printer anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJMan Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 To add more rumors, I had heard that manufacturers were doing this to business models of their printers only to 'ensure' the quality of prints. Isn't everyone glad they're looking out for us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eksimba Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Most consumer printers are going that way. I'd be willing to bet that in a few years' time, all major printer brands will have some sort of smart-chip on each printer cartridge, specifically designed to thwart refilling.As for the pros and cons of refilling - it depends on the printer and the ink. Some printers are designed to work with a specific type of ink, and may be damaged with repeated use of other ink. Most printers can use any quality ink. If you consistently use cheap ink, though, your results will not be as good as if you refill with decent quality ink. Which is still cheaper than buying a new cartridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eksimba Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 There's a decent article about the subject at:http://peripherals.about.com/library/weekl...y/aa071801a.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Yeah, that Lexmark deal has to do with some misguided uses of the DMCA legal jargon. See cached page at Google here. (The actual i.itc.org page was missing, could only get to it by Google's cached pages.) Here's a quote from the article: The use of copyright laws and the Digital Millenium Copyright Act is a stretch. These laws were designed to protect new and useful works from being copied, not to protect a word or sentence of code that has but one purpose: to lock out competition.Lexmark International has been the aftermarket’s nemesis ever since the company launched the now-famous Prebate program in May 1997. Lexmark warned then it would sue any remanufacturer that attempted to remanufacture its Prebate cartridges. Although it never carried through on that threat, the remanufacturing industry was left in fear of lawsuits and was slow to remanufacture Lexmark cartridges affected by Prebate.The original page where this article was listed was:www.i-itc.org/lexmark.htm although it may be that they just moved it (I hope).And now apparently legal beavers are in an uproar, rightfully so! Gee, seems the CARP is being used for something they hadn't really thought of, nor taken into account. However, by its very wording, and their short-sightedness, it led to this fiasco.Read about it at these articles:C|Net News.com article -- Experts: Copyright law hurts technology Another C|Net News.com article - EFF blasts controversial copyright law BWOnline article - The Best-Laid Plans of Copyright Law...ZDNet article - Toner company fights DMCA lawsuitWired.com article - Lexmark: New Fuel for DMCA FoesNow other printer companies are probably wanting to get on the bandwagon as well, and it will all be legal smeegle for them to 'combat' remanufacturers of their replacement cartridges in this way.Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stryder Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 All the printer companies are trying to move to this model. If/when the majority of people are refilling their own cartidges we can expect the printer companies to get real nasty about this. Their business model was based on people buying their ink. Bad business model if you ask me. But hey, that is what our government is for, to pass laws so our huge corporations can run bad business models and have conusmer un-friendly tactics and get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teacher Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Aaarg, one more thing to worry about. Actually I gave up refilling cartridges. While my ancient but trusty HP 722 refilled great, it only took one leak all over the printer to make me change my mind. Of course, it waited to leak quite a while. I left the cartridge out for a day before putting it back in only to discover the leak when I wondered why it was empty after only a month. Stryder, like the new avatar..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 All the printer companies are trying to move to this model. If/when the majority of people are refilling their own cartidges we can expect the printer companies to get real nasty about this. Their business model was based on people buying their ink. Bad business model if you ask me. But hey, that is what our government is for, to pass laws so our huge corporations can run bad business models and have conusmer un-friendly tactics and get away with it.Stryder --You got that right! I wonder some times where all this will lead!I don't use remanufactured cartridges for my HP5000 because they just don't do a good job with them and the microfine is not microfine in my opinion.But I did use them to refill my old DeskJet InkJet printer .. and I was able to actually get better and more permanent ink than OEM provided!And I don't like the fact that if I wanted to use that old printer again that there may not be a way to get the better ink at a bargain price.And all because of DMCA crapola!GRRRRRR BTW: Cute antique car avatar ... meant to tell you that before and forgot I do miss the Indiana flag though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 teacher --Looks like you beat me to it on Stryder's avatar comment :)Yes, you are right ... there can be down sides on refills.I found I would re-use the cartridge only one or two times and then buy a real one and do it again. Never failed to work that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paracelsus Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 I hadn't heard about a "time limited" cartridges, but here is an anecdote about one of the "High End" HP's we have where I work. It's less than a year old, and uses three color and one black cartridges. The cartridges feed in to reservoirs that are tapped for jet printing. Anyway...Evidently the printer had a faulty sensor that was indicating that cartridges were "low". After a certain number of "low" indications were given during print jobs, the printer wouldn't function until the offending cartridge was replaced. The cartridge(s) were still nearly full.After several months and nearly a dozen replacement cartridges, our IS Dept. got HP involved and they replaced the printer. The story HP gave IS and IS told me is that...The printer somehow flashes to the cartridge chip that it is empty. Once that's done, even if the cartridge is full, the printer will detect it as "empty". (I have not verified this directly with HP)The Rea$oning for HP doing this isn't hard to guess... as others have mentioned. (On a lighter note... HP gave us a twelve pack of each ink, in addition to replacing the printer.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teacher Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 I found I would re-use the cartridge only one or two times and then buy a real one and do it again. Never failed to work that way.That is what I used to do too. My last refill that leaked all over the printer was the first refill on the cartridge. Oh well, with what I print at home I can afford a new cartridge twice a year! The printer somehow flashes to the cartridge chip that it it empty. Once that's done, even if the cartridge is full, the printer will detect it as "empty". (I have not verified this directly with HP)Paracelsus - I wonder if that is what the other unit that goes with the cartridge that you have to replace does on the HPs. I remember buying a stockpile of them in my last school district before I left. They said they lasted about as long as two or three cartridges. That sure went through my grant money in a hurry!honest, i know several ppl that THROW AWAY their printers each time it runs out of ink.Temmu - that sounds scary - I wonder how many of those printers end up in the landfill? I hope they at least donate them to charity. I think the cheaper the printer, the more expensive the cartridge. A lot of those printers come with a smaller size cartridge out of the box. Check the amounts in a cartridge that comes in the box with the printer for an HP and the amount that is in a regular cartridge! I discovered that stores will sell both sizes for the same price to the unwitting buyer. Ouch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 I hear ya all! And it is absolutely ridiculous!We have become such a throwaway society it really is scary!I have heard others say the same thing about buying a new printer (particularly those who own a Lexmark that they bought for $49 and it was only about $10 less to get a new cartridge...a single cartridge!My Jim has been an component level electronics technician (not a board swapper) for nearly 30 years. He saved his customers money by fixing the problem at the component level whenever possible. But things are getting so inexpensive to replace that he just doesn't feel good charging folks for repair if it is something he knows replacement would be more cost effective for the client! He always tells his clients if it makes better sense to replace than to repair...even if it costs him a repair.We both have always felt that it was better to be truthful even if it means losing a sale, repair, whatever.It is a shame more companies don't do business that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lover of quiet computers Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 I have an old inkjet (HP DeskJet 820Cse) that I now use pretty much only for black text duty. I have no problem using refills for it, because they work fine, and I don't care if they cause a minor adverse effect on quality or whatnot, because I don't want to pay the full prices for new cartridges for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott88008 Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 When I bought my printer I first went to the ink cartridge section of the store and looked for the cheapest refills. I then bought a Canon S300 for $80.00 and only pay $5.00 for cartridges. It may not be top of the line but it does everything I want it to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted April 17, 2003 Author Share Posted April 17, 2003 When I bought my printer I first went to the ink cartridge section of the store and looked for the cheapest refills.Sounds like a pretty smart decision to me. Maybe if we all did that, HP and all the others would bring down the price of their cartridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThunderRiver Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Does anyone have any comments about the new inkjet printers and refilling the cartridges? I just bought a new HP deskjet 3820. A couple of days ago, I refilled the cartridge and it works great. However, from what I've been hearing, the new printers have a chip on them that monitors how long you had the cartridge. After awhile a message will pop up telling you that the cartridge has expired and can no longer be used. A work around is to set the date back on your computer to a different year. I haven't had my printer very long so I don't know if mine has that chip in it or not. Anybody have any comments on this?FrankThat's entirely untrue heh. I actually own the exact same model of your printer. It works fine, and the chip on the cartridge only checks the amount of ink inside it. If you somehow damage the chip while refilling it, of course you will render it useless.I have yet tried to refill it many times before, and it works great for me. There are a large number of refill kit that can help you refill professionally without getting your hands dirty.On the final note, I am not trying to say that such time bomb doesn't exist. It does, but not the model you have So you can count on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThunderRiver Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 I personally don't like lexmark that much because their printer is not that great. They do sell their printer cheap though, but the price for getting a cartridge replacement is worth another printer heh. It is also very very hard to refill yourself with those. Whenever you buy a printer, make sure you check the cartridge size and also the potentials for refill. Some companies like Cannon or Lexmark would try to make it 10 times hard to refill, so keep that in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greengeek Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 I have a Lexmark Z11 which is two years old. After I recovered from the shock of buying a new cartridge which cost almost as much as the printer, I have been using refill kits ever since without any problems. It's a great little printer and does all that I need it to.Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluggo Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Hi I have a Lexmark Z11 which is two years old. After I recovered from the shock of buying a new cartridge which cost almost as much as the printer, I have been using refill kits ever since without any problems. It's a great little printer and does all that I need it to.JoyJust curious, where have you been getting the refill kits from and how much ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greengeek Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 My sister buys them from a mail order place in Sydney (Australia). I'll find out the address if you're interested. They cost about AU$30.00 for colour and AU$25 for black. I get about six refills out of them but I'm careful not to overfill the cartridges. The first time I used one the nozzle came off and ink sprayed everywhere. My poor Compaq still has a few blue spots on him.Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted April 18, 2003 Author Share Posted April 18, 2003 On the final note, I am not trying to say that such time bomb doesn't exist. It does, but not the model you have So you can count on it Thanks. Good to hear that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikara Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Here are some inkjet refillers available in Australia, Check them out to see if they can fullfill your needs.http://www.easyrefills.com.au/http://www.inkcartridges.com.au/http://www.newreality.com.au/http://www.inkman.com.au/http://www.inkredibleinks.com.au/http://www.inkwholesalers.com.au/http://www.printzone.com.au/cart/default.phphttp://www.directaccess.com.au/da/consumab...201019070785426 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ComputerBob Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 The last time I bought refill ink was at Walgreen's drug store (USA), for $14.95, on sale from $19.95. Since then, I've seen twice as much ink at Sam's club for about the same price, and that refill kit came with both black and color inks. I'll probably buy it there next time and save even more $$$, even though I don't need color inks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greengeek Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 If you don't need the colour inks and you print a lot of text, you can always mix them to get an almost black colour, I do it all the time.Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeber Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 This business model was dishonest from the start of the personal computer revolution. Sell inexpensive printers, then recoup your profit from the sale of ink cartridges. Thank goodness they didn't control the paper industry as well. It would have been so much more straightforward to simply charge a fair price for the printer in the first place, then sell the cartridges at their real cost. Oh what a tangled web we weave... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Jeber --What a refreshing idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfProRM Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 ahh... the best way to use a printer... Just print anything I need on the laser printer I have at work :DI don't even see the point of owning a printer right now. I know I'm not SUPPOSED to use our laser for personal stuff, but shoot, everybody does... And the best part, no costly refills (for me anyway)!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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