The SCO Update Thread

[SonicDragon]

Active Win ArticleLaura DiDio says code is the same. It will be interesting to see what Linus' group of analists is going to say.

[SonicDragon]

Aparently, enough people believe that SCO has a chance to raise their share price by 29%

[Guest LilBambi]

Yes, it will. Especially since Caldera Linux (SCO recently killed off their Linux child Caldera), had as much access to the code in Linux as anyone else.

[Guest LilBambi]

ZDNet TechUpdate: SCO vs. IBM - Lengthy battle could hurt Linx

As the battle escalates with SCO upping the ante--seeking more than $3 billion in damages for alleged copying of proprietary Unix intellectual property into Linux--deep throats in the IX biz (Unix, Linux) are talking and, as reported earlier, the word on the street is that several organizations--including IBM, Red Hat, Novell and the Open Source Initiative--are preparing a vigorous defense against SCO's patent infringement claims. Although I first considered Gartner's "limit Linux use" response to the suit to be an over-reaction, I'm beginning to reconsider--but not for Gartner's reasons. The final merits of SCO's case may not be what pose the greatest risk to Linux. The problem, insiders worry, will be time.

Time heals all wounds, or was that Time wounds all heels?

[volunteer]

Fran, this is getting to be like a "divorce", as soon as all the money changes hands everyone will be happy except the Linux users who have to pay more for their distros. Free Bsd is looking better and better, time to try it. Ken

[Prelude76]

I read up on the SCO lawsuit. something interesting to note. One of the partners in SCO's lawsuit is a Mr. Hatch from Utah. you might know his name. His dad is Senator Hatch of Utah.Senator Hatch made news today:(from CNN)

Illegally download copyright music from the Internet once, or even twice, and you get a warning. Do it a third time, and your computer gets destroyed.That's the suggestion made by the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee at a Tuesday hearing on copyright abuse, reflecting a growing frustration in Congress over failure of the technology and entertainment industries to protect copyrights in a digital age.The surprise statement by Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, that he favors developing technology to remotely destroy computers used for illegal downloads represents a dramatic escalation in the increasingly contentious rhetoric over pirated music.

So the whole "hack into your computer if you pirate" movement is from the same gene pool that is suing IBM and trying to shut down Linux. nice coincidence, eh? Any Utah readers on this board? better vote Democrat next time.

[BarryB]

Actually there are as many democrats for this as well....and democracts and republicans against! The whole issue has created some really strange bedfellows....

[Prelude76]

It's more like every politician who got campaign money from Microsoft or RIAA or Movie Studios are on one side, and all the politicians who missed out on the truckload of money are now bitter and are on the other side of the debate. Am I close?

[BarryB]

It seems that way...but there are so many levels of disagreement....I get tickled at RIAA though...they say sales are off because of Downloading..I'd say it's because the music sux!!!so why someone would want to steal the music is beyond me....But I guess if they do pass a law given business a right to destory private property..private people should force recalls on lawmakers ( Of course getting the Avg American to actually become involved in the process before it's late..will be the trick) Maybe if we somehow said it was a threat to "American Idol" or Real World"we get some action

[aydc]

Some people who saw the code SCO is talking about say that even comment lines are the same in certain parts between UNIX and Linux code. I read this in The Register and The Inquirer. I don't know about you, but it looks serious to me.It makes sense. A lot of people who are Linux hackers come from a UNIX background and they have access to UNIX code. Copy and paste just works. Linux works like UNIX, feels like UNIX, it even runs UNIX software after recompilation so I wonder why such a thing didn't happen sooner.I hate to see Linux go down though. Even if I don't use it now (I tried a few times but everytime I kept returning to windows because Linux lacks a few important things), I hope that someday I will be able to.

[SonicDragon]

Illegally download copyright music from the Internet once, or even twice, and you get a warning. Do it a third time, and your computer gets destroyed.

I don't think they should have the right to destroy our computers, but i do think something needs to be done. I'm so sad this is the way they are chosing to go about the problem.

[jbredmound]

It's more like every politician who got campaign money from Microsoft or RIAA or Movie Studios are on one side, and all the politicians who missed out on the truckload of money are now bitter and are on the other side of the debate.  Am I close? 

In that case, Linux is doomed. If you're too dumb to get in on that money, you're too dumb to be of any use!

[Guest LilBambi]

Don't forget ... SCO/Caldera was part of the Unified Linux Consortium or whatever it was called ... they could have put the code in themselves either to help or to hinder Linux ... depending on who put it in and why.Also, it is important to note that if one of the regular Linux kernel developers wanted to hide the fact that UNIX code was being put in there, they would certainly NOT have put the UNIX developer comments in the code.So whoever put it in there either thought they had the right to do so, or did it deliberately in anticipation of this very issue.

[Guest genaldar]

Cringly has some interesting points about this whole issue. His current theory is that since the code was developed by the same guy the liscense for unix is exclusive only to unix. An older theory of his is that it was code both borrowed from bsd.

[jbredmound]

Here is an interesting moment in Linux history. Notice how the term "non-commercial" is inserted here.Even MORE interesting is that ONE PERSON seemed to have an idea about what was going on!Boy, I love history. Anyone want to talk about the Alamo?

[zox]

Another SCO article, but this time it is Linux Journal's journalist who has signed NDA and took a trip to SCO hq in Utah:Article

[Guest LilBambi]

Bill Baxter - Subject: Not Open Source, I'm afraid. ( Feb 23, 2000, 00:01:50 )  Note that these releases are not open source. SCO retain rights to the source code. Maybe they even hope that some of their code will wind up in linux, so that they can then sue, and render the Linux license terms invalid. Or would they be that spiteful? My guess == yes.

Wow ...was that prophetic or did he give them the idea back in 2000! Seems to me he just gave them the idea ... why do I think that??They BOUGHT UNIX...they didn't write it!Don't think they are that original!LOL!

[jbredmound]

Bill Baxter - Subject: Not Open Source, I'm afraid. ( Feb 23, 2000, 00:01:50 )  Note that these releases are not open source. SCO retain rights to the source code. Maybe they even hope that some of their code will wind up in linux, so that they can then sue, and render the Linux license terms invalid. Or would they be that spiteful? My guess == yes.

Wow ...was that prophetic or did he give them the idea back in 2000! Seems to me he just gave them the idea ... why do I think that??They BOUGHT UNIX...they didn't write it!Don't think they are that original!LOL!

SCO HQ, 2000 AD"Jim, look at this! Man, I was just perusing the Linux rag, and this guy comes up with THIS idea!""Bill, we HAVE to take this to the boss, NOW! If he hears about it from anyone else, we're doomed!""We're probably doomed anyway, man. WE didn't think of THIS!""But we did, and we just want to find out who leaked it...get it.""Oh, this is going to be great. We'll let them start using the OS on servers, get a few big companies bought in, then, WHAM...THE BOSS IS GOING TO love THIS!!"

[quint]

SCO HQ, 2000 AD"Jim, look at this! Man, I was just perusing the Linux rag, and this guy comes up with THIS idea!""Bill, we HAVE to take this to the boss, NOW! If he hears about it from anyone else, we're doomed!""We're probably doomed anyway, man. WE didn't think of THIS!""But we did, and we just want to find out who leaked it...get it.""Oh, this is going to be great. We'll let them start using the OS on servers, get a few big companies bought in, then, WHAM...THE BOSS IS GOING TO love THIS!!"

Wonder if there's an element of truth in this humorous dialog.

[Guest LilBambi]

I don't know ... but it does make you think, doesn't it?

[quint]

I don't know ... but it does make you think, doesn't it?

Hi Fran,Certainly does, especially in light of all the recent goings-on in the corporate world.

[Guest LilBambi]

Very true ... BTW: Did you have a chance to read the article and the follow up postings at the following LinuxJournal item that zox posted ... very interesting.

zox Posted on Jun 21 2003, 08:52 AM-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another SCO article, but this time it is Linux Journal's journalist who has signed NDA and took a trip to SCO hq in Utah:Article

Thanks zox.

[jbredmound]

Very true ... BTW: Did you have a chance to read the article and the follow up postings at the following LinuxJournal item that zox posted ... very interesting.

zox Posted on Jun 21 2003, 08:52 AM-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another SCO article, but this time it is Linux Journal's journalist who has signed NDA and took a trip to SCO hq in Utah:Article

Thanks zox.

"I owe my soul to the company store."I liked that the best when Tennessee Ernie Ford did it.

[Cluttermagnet]

Another SCO article, but this time it is Linux Journal's journalist who has signed NDA and took a trip to SCO hq in Utah:Article

Thanks, zox-Another very interesting article. After reading all of it plus about halfway down the reply emails, I ran across this gem:

Here's my take on what's going on here. I had a look at SCO's 10-Q filing with the SEC. It seems they are being sued over alleged securities fraud in connection with their IPO. I also noted from the Form 4 filings (insider transactions) that several of the senior people have been selling the stock in the last couple of months. I think this "litigation by press release" is all about trying to pump up the stock so the rats can get off the sinking ship.

Now, where have we heard this before? Ah, yes- in the bank robbery sequence in some movies: "All right, everybody get down on the floor! Nobody move- the first person who moves gets shot! Here, fill these bags with money. No, don't bother with the small bills. Hurry up, or I'll blow your (expletive) head off! (etc.)" Sounds like they are so desperate they don't care how many people they hurt. If these guys are up to something along those lines, it would at least provide some satisfaction later to see a magazine photo showing them in attractive, brightly colored jumpsuits, standing next to some Enron execs while everybody breaks big rocks apart with sledgehammers.

[Guest LilBambi]

A new wrinkle in this unfolding saga:http://www.opengroup.org/http://www.opengroup.org/comm/press/unix-b...ackgrounder.htm

Allen Brown, President & CEO The Open Group says:Whoever said that, "the first casualty of war is truth" probably did not expect that it would be quoted in a dispute amongst systems vendors.By now many of you will be aware that SCO Group has started legal proceedings against IBM. That action has turned into a war of words and those words very often serve to mislead or confuse, perhaps not intentionally but nevertheless fear, uncertainty and doubt is the inevitable result.The reason this concerns The Open Group is that many organizations who procure UNIX systems, do so in the knowledge that an operating system that is certified by The Open Group to use the UNIX trademark, conforms to the Single UNIX Specification, will always conform and if it is found not to conform, will be rectified by the vendor at the vendor's expense.Certification of conformance to standards is critical to the efficient operation of the market. Governments are particularly concerned with certified conformance to standards - it is a little late to find out on the battlefield that a piece of equipment does not meet a supplier's claims of conformance to standards. This is one example of the importance of a neutral third-party carrying out the certification process.The Open Group is the owner of the UNIX trademark which it holds on behalf of the industry. This truth has not been entirely visible in the media, even though it is acknowledged on SCO Group products and on their web site.The Open Group is a vendor-neutral organization. It has no opinion on who is right and who is wrong in the SCO Group case against IBM; we will leave that for the courts, the media and those with the time to write-in. However, we do care about customers and users of UNIX systems whose businesses, or in some cases, lives, depend upon the UNIX trademark as an indicator of trust, as they have done for a good number of years now. The Open Group actively pursues anyone who puts this trademark in harm's way. Initially we seek to use education and persuasion to obtain the correct usage and attribution of the UNIX trademark. Only in very rarest of cases do we take legal action, usually after all other courses of action have failed. The simple fact is that throughout all of this both SCO Group and IBM do have certified products, are licensed to and do use the UNIX trademark in association with certified products with the correct attribution. You can help us to remind the industry of the ownership of the UNIX trademark and ensure that its proper use as a neutral indicator of certification for the benefit of customers of UNIX systems.To help, is very simple, all you have to do is to publish the following attribution."UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the United States and other countries."

And their press release last week:http://www.opengroup.org/comm/press/who-owns-unix.htm

Who Owns UNIX®?Regarding SCO's positioning on UNIX, The Open Group would like to make it clear that SCO holds the rights only to the operating system source code originally licensed by AT&T and does not own the UNIX trademark itself or definition of what a UNIX system is.Reference to the SCO web site shows that they own certain intellectual property and they correctly attribute the trademark. SCO has never owned "UNIX". ...

Some additional links from their site:For further discussion on SCO's IP Claim please also see: http://mozillaquest.com/Linux03/ScoSource-...02_Story01.htmlhttp://mozillaquest.com/Linux03/ScoSource-...02_Story04.htmlFor the Austin Group see:http://www.opengroup.org/austin/For LSB certification and testing information see:http://www.opengroup.org/lsb/cert/http://www.opengroup.org/testing/lsb-test/For the UNIX System Web site see:http://www.unix.org/It just keeps getting deeper and deeper around this saga. Edited June 23, 2003 by LilBambi

[Guest LilBambi]

I have just well over an hour reading links from the opengroup.org.Here is an excerpt from Story3 from http://mozillaquest.com/Linux03/ScoSource-...02_Story03.html

MozillaQuest Magazine: Do you have a URL where Linus Torvalds states that "Linux is a derivative of that UNIX source code" or someone says that Linus said that?Blake Stowell: Go to www.google.com and type in the words Linus derivative UNIX. You'll see that 5,010 hits appear. Choose your favorite URL and read all about it.MozillaQuest Magazine: Comment: I thought that Linux was pretty much built from the ground up rather than using the UNIX source code. If parts of SCO's UNIX intellectual property reside in any parts of Linux, then it looks as though SCO could enforce its UNIX IP against the Linux community and require licenses to use Linux.We did check a few hits from a Google search to see if we could verify SCO's claim that Linus has publicly stated . . . that Linux is a derivative of that UNIX source code. We found nothing that indicated Linus Torvalds has ever made any such statement.Our position is that if SCO wants to claim that Linus Torvalds has publicly stated . . . that Linux is a derivative of that UNIX source code, the burden is on SCO to cite a specific reference to such a statement. SCO has not met that burden!We also spent considerable time attempting to verify SCO's claim that Linux is a derivative of that UNIX source code. Rather than verify SCO's claim that Linux is a derivative of that UNIX source code, the result was just the opposite. Here are examples of statements from two well-respected organizations that contradict SCO-Caldera's claim that Linux is a derivative of that UNIX source code. Links to the Web sites where these statements are made are in the Resources section at the end of this article on page 5.Developed by Linus Torvalds, Linux is a product that mimics the form and function of a UNIX system, but is not derived from licensed source code. Rather, it was developed independently; by a group of developers in an informal alliance on the net. A major benefit is that the source code is freely available (under the GNU copyleft), enabling the technically astute to alter and amend the system; it also means that there are many, freely available, utilities and specialist drivers available on the net. (What about Linux, The Open Group)

[quint]

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive."

[Guest LilBambi]

Ah, yes ... how true, how true

[Guest LilBambi]

Richard Stallman, president of the Free Software Foundation and author of the GNU General Public License has a very interesting article on ZDNet's TechUpdate site:SCO smear campaign can't defeat GNU communityLead in for the article:

SCO's contract dispute with IBM has been accompanied by a smear campaign against the whole GNU/Linux system. But SCO made an obvious mistake when it erroneously quoted me as saying that "Linux is a copy of Unix." Many readers immediately smelled a rat--not only because I did not say that, and not only because the person who said it was talking about published ideas (which are uncopyrightable) rather than code, but because they know I would never compare Linux with Unix.

[quint]

Thank you, Fran...very good article. But it makes me to know that things like this continue to surface. Is it all for $$, or is it a new "power trip", to try and wrest some attention away from the years of the MS kingdom? Win or lose, SCO will not suffer, but depending on the outcome, you and I and millions of others, could. I hope this quote is the truth:

Our community cannot be defeated by this.